Quaid-e-Azam with Pakistan Armed Forces 1947-48

[kill_me]

thanks for sharing......love my quid n these pics

 

[imiakhtar]

Pakistan's army was extremely underdeveloped

Underdeveloped?

You couldn't be more wrong!

Post azadi, the only country in the region that could match Pakistan was India.

The Chinese were a joke and the Arabs and Persians had no regular professional standing armies.

 

[That Guy]

Underdeveloped?

You couldn't be more wrong!

Post azadi, the only country in the region that could match Pakistan was India.

The Chinese were a joke and the Arabs and Persians had no regular professional standing armies.

underdeveloped doesn't mean weak, it means that the army doesn't have the capabilities it should have. It can still fight a war, but it would be hard pressed to keep attrition rate in it's favor.

 

[imiakhtar]

it means that the army doesn't have the capabilities it should have

In 1947, what capabilities were the Pakistanis lacking?

They had a well trained and well equipped standing army with up to date British and American equipment. Both of my grandfathers were in the military at the time and the elder, like many of his counterparts had seen combat in Burma and Bengal as part of Slim's army.

The Air Force was similarly on a good footing and had been so since the 1920s when the British established airlinks and ground stations in the country.

The training and logistics were in place and established along the North South Karachi-Punjab axis.

You may have a small point in pointing out the naval capabilities at the time but if you look back, the Indians were facing a similar predicament with established naval ports but minimal surface fleet capabilities and with the RN and USN controlling the sea lanes, there wasn't any threat.

 

[That Guy]

In 1947, what capabilities were the Pakistanis lacking?

They had a well trained and well equipped standing army with up to date British and American equipment. Both of my grandfathers were in the military at the time and the elder, like many of his counterparts had seen combat in Burma and Bengal as part of Slim's army.

The Air Force was similarly on a good footing and had been so since the 1920s when the British established airlinks and ground stations in the country.

The training and logistics were in place and established along the North South Karachi-Punjab axis.

You may have a small point in pointing out the naval capabilities at the time but if you look back, the Indians were facing a similar predicament with established naval ports but minimal surface fleet capabilities and with the RN and USN controlling the sea lanes, there wasn't any threat.

A vast majority of the equipment was given to India, which is why India had a large military advantage over Pakistan. Pakistan was given what was needed to defend itself, nothing more. It had no offensive capabilities. A vast chunk of the Pakistani army was simply filled with militia groups, many of whom ended up becoming what is today known as the frontier corps. What Pakistan got were a few military bases, and basic equipment. Look at Pakistan's early military history, hell, Pakistan's military was so underdeveloped, it's first COAS was a white british General.

Pakistan was forced to accept a smaller share of the armed forces as most of the military assets, such as weapons depots, military bases, etc., were located inside the new Union of India, while those that were in the new Dominion of Pakistan were mostly obsolete. Pakistan also had a dangerously low ammunition reserve of only one week.[11] By August 15, 1947, both India and Pakistan had operational control over their armed forces. GeneralSir Frank Messervy was appointed as the first Army Commander-in-Chief of the new Pakistan Army. General Messervy was succeeded in this post in February 1948, by GeneralSir Douglas Gracey, who served until January 1951.

Military history of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jaunty]

View attachment 30903
TIME April 22-1948

Correction: April 22- 1946.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

In 1947, what capabilities were the Pakistanis lacking?

They had a well trained and well equipped standing army with up to date British and American equipment. Both of my grandfathers were in the military at the time and the elder, like many of his counterparts had seen combat in Burma and Bengal as part of Slim's army.

The Air Force was similarly on a good footing and had been so since the 1920s when the British established airlinks and ground stations in the country.

The training and logistics were in place and established along the North South Karachi-Punjab axis.

You may have a small point in pointing out the naval capabilities at the time but if you look back, the Indians were facing a similar predicament with established naval ports but minimal surface fleet capabilities and with the RN and USN controlling the sea lanes, there wasn't any threat.

Im sorry you are pretty much wrong.... Pak military in terms to equipment was pathetic in 47... considering the number or the quality of military assets handed over to Pak... fked up scrap was handed over to us...

 

[imiakhtar]

A vast chunk of the Pakistani army was simply filled with militia groups

You do a great disservice to the men who served in the regular regiments which constituted the bulk of the Pak army by referring to them as 'militia men'.

I suppose in your eyes, the Punjab regiment magically popped up in '47.

A vast majority of the equipment was given to India, which is why India had a large military advantage over Pakistan

India in terms of area and pop was much greater.

It had no offensive capabilities.

That's because the region had hitherto little need for those capabilities. There were no tank battles with the Japanese in the Burmese bush and the Brits only half-heartedly fielded one armoured division.

What Pakistan got were a few military bases, and basic equipment.

To simplify logistics, the British placed most of the armament and munitions factories near Bengal (Ishapore for example) which provided many seaports and which also provided access to railroads through to Dhaka. Given the bankrupt economy and weary malaise affecting Britain in '47, it would have been unreasonable to have stripped the assembly lines down and ship them to Pakistan proper.

Look at Pakistan's early military history, hell, Pakistan's military was so underdeveloped, it's first COAS was a white british General.

Much of the Indian army staff were Brits too Bulcher, Goddard etc.

 

[That Guy]

You do a great disservice to the men who served in the regular regiments which constituted the bulk of the Pak army by referring to them as 'militia men'.

I did no such thing. Are you suggesting that those that aren't a part of the official military, but want to sacrifice for their country are dishonorable people? If anything, you're dis servicing those same people. Besides, look at the history of Pakistani military history. Look at the history of the frontier corps

The Frontier Corps was created in 1907 by Lord Curzon, the viceroy of British India, in order to organize seven militia and scout units in the tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan: the Khyber Rifles, the Zhob Militia, the Kurram Militia, the Tochi Scouts, the Chagai Militia, the South Waziristan Scouts and the Chitral Scouts.

After independence in 1947, Pakistan expanded the corps further by creating a number of new units, including the Thal Scouts, the Northern Scouts, the Bajaur Scouts, the Karakoram Scouts, the Kalat Scouts, the Dir Scouts and the Kohistan Scouts. British officers continued to serve in the Frontier Corps up to the early 1950s. The corps was split into two major subdivisions with FC Balochistan incorporating the Zhob Militia, the Sibi Scouts, the Kalat Scouts, the Makran Militia, the Kharan Rifles, the Pishin Scouts, the Chaghai Militia and the First Mahsud Scouts.[1] In 1975, three of the units (the Gilgit Scouts, the Karakoram Scouts and the Northern Scouts) were merged to form a new paramilitary force called the Northern Light Infantry, which is now a full infantry regiment of the Pakistan Army.

Frontier Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suppose in your eyes, the Punjab regiment magically popped up in '47.

Look at Pakistani military history, Pakistani army as a whole (not just the Punjab regiment) was grossly underdeveloped. The total amount of military officers numbered below 2500, when Pakistan had a requirement of 4000. Not just that, the total man-strength was lower than what was needed, (around 150,000, which was well below urgent requirement).

A member of the Khyber Rifles, which became a part of the Frontier corps

India in terms of area and pop was much greater.

That changes my point very little.

That's because the region had hitherto little need for those capabilities. There were no tank battles with the Japanese in the Burmese bush and the Brits only half-heartedly fielded one armoured division.

Considering Afghan aggression at the time, it was very much needed. Afghanistan had made it clear that it did not recognize Pakistan, and had constantly threatened to launch military offensives to take the Tribal areas from Pakistan.

To simplify logistics, the British placed most of the armament and munitions factories near Bengal (Ishapore for example) which provided many seaports and which also provided access to railroads through to Dhaka. Given the bankrupt economy and weary malaise affecting Britain in '47, it would have been unreasonable to have stripped the assembly lines down and ship them to Pakistan proper.

Again, how does this change what I said? If anything, it proves Pakistan was under-equipped. It got less than what it required.

Much of the Indian army staff were Brits too Bulcher, Goddard etc.

I know, it was just a fun fact that I thought I would share, but it does highlight that India's military was also underdeveloped, but was far better off that Pakistan.

Look, I'm not going to debate well known history with you. Look at Pakistani military history and then come up with your own conclusions.

 

[SHAMK9]

Lets make our old man proud and turn Pakistan to something he would be proud of.

 

[tarrar]

May our Quaids soul rest in peace & ALLAH give him highest place in Jannat, AMEEN. There is no leader till date who could stand equal to him, all are corrupt & incompetent, they only love themselves & not Pakistan.

Today every devil in Pakistan is a shaheed & a hero. This shows how much corrupt politicians are & level of incompetency.

 

[fatman17]

 

[Jaansher]

 

[Pak_Sher]

Great pictures.

 

[fatman17]

Visiting 5HAA regiment

Reviewing AD parade