Featured QUAD is unrealistic to be NATO

[SuvarnaTeja]

US is a declining power and if US wants to be happy being #2 then they might as well make a deal with China.
You cannot expect same support from Russia as from erstwhile USSR, a LOT of things have changed.
So you only have options, either 1) go solo or 2) go with US.
If incase 2) doesn't work then we have only 1), and we'll manage it now all thanks to recent developments.
India is pushing ahead with it's own interests in IOR and not US interests through the QUAD! You've got things horribly wrong! Stop reading propaganda!

India could offer to China that if they leave IOR to India, India will leave SCS to China.

 

[vi-va]

India could offer to China that if they leave IOR to India, India will leave SCS to China.

IOR is a open water, where China and all countries have legitimacy to use freely. It's our interest to make sure IOR open to China and all countries for trade and travel.

SCS is a territory claimed by China, Vietnam, Philippines ,and Malay, where India never claimed.

Believe me, if India claim IOR, US will be the first to object, coz US is the current dominating sea power.

 

[SpaceMan18]

You pretty much covered it,
now, either people will find stupid faults, or they will accept the reality in front of them, nicely explained.

You expect Indians to get FACTS right ?

Bruh they live their own bubble , SUPA POWA 2020

 

[Chhatrapati]

What a lengthy troll post with no real reasoning or substance. If PDF were to ban articles from other sites, this will be all we are left with to be called 'featured'.

Aussie:

1. Aussie only 25 millions population. 12% of Pakistan, 1.7% of China population. What can Aussie do against China? Want to be bombed or conquered? Suicidal.
2. Don't forget China is Aussie biggest customer. More the second and third biggest customers combined.

 

[Cheepek]

India could offer to China that if they leave IOR to India, India will leave SCS to China.

China is a middle kingdom that does not believe in rules based order. Can't believe you are so naive!

 

[Abid123]

Why cant we make a "eastern NATO"? It members including China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and Pakistan? Maybe even add Turkey to that list despite them being NATO-member?

 

[Saudang]

South Korea:

1. South Korea major threat and interest is North Korea. While the last thing South Korea want to do is threatening China core interest.
2. If South Korea did so, then simple, China will arm North Korea with second hand weapons. South Korea knew very well that confrontation with China is the worst option.

Japan

1. Japan is smart and foxy. Japan will keep using US resource, technology, market, while try to get more independence.
2. Japan lost WW2, a huge lesson to be remembered for 1000 years, conquered by US, humiliated, bombed by nukes.
3. Japan love US sincerely? God damn no.
4. US truly trust Japan? God damn no.
5. US does not tolerate Japan independence. That's the cruel reality. A lap dog is what US needed.

Aussie:

1. Aussie only 25 millions population. 12% of Pakistan, 1.7% of China population. What can Aussie do against China? Want to be bombed or conquered? Suicidal.
2. Don't forget China is Aussie biggest customer. More the second and third biggest customers combined.

India:

1. India economy is slowing down, even before pandemic. Modi can keep thumping 55" inch chest(smaller than 2014), but he must spend resource on economy, not war.
2. Modi was checkmated in Aksai Chin, tens of thousands soldiers have to be forward deployed, with a fragile supply lane. A war with China, even medium scale skirmish will make Modi's be sleepless.
3. The reality is India is facing two damn front war. The last thing India want. The best thing for Pakistan.
4. US push India to the frontline, frankly speaking, using India as cannon fodder against both China and Pakistan. US and UK are good at it, stir the milky water, making 3 nuclear powers confront on land dispute. While India will be exhausted and used as proxy.
5. I bet Modi has finally realized that US won't help India. What a fool.

US:

1. The last thing US want is India becoming another China. US would rather use India as cannon fodder.
2. US is in big trouble.
   1. Demographically and economically.
   2. Financially crisis, much worse than 2008.
   3. Pandemic will last another several month.
   4. US FED has printed trillions of dollars, debt is 21 trillions
3. US is divided, more and more like India.
4. US defense budget is high, there is no room to increase. But China is steadily increasing defense budget.
5. More importantly, US had an edge on pioneer defense technology, while China has catching up.
6. The geography favor China in West Pacific. In Cold War, there are numerous air base in West Europe. While in West Pacific, Japan, Japan, Japan.
7. The first island chain is fragile. only several air base can be used which are all targeted by China Rocket Force, thousands of missiles. Especially DF-17, Hypersonic Glide Vehicle

Long term:

1. Soviet lost Cold War. The GDP of Warsaw Pact is much smaller than NATO + Korea + Japan + Canada. Soviet facing 2-3 front war, West Europe, North East Pacific, Caucasia, Arctic Ocean.
2. China focus on West Pacific, which means US can only leverage the military force of Japan + Aussie.
3. China GNP in PPP term is much bigger than US, GNP in nominal term will surpass US in 2026 or so.
4. China long term GNP will be 2X of US, or even bigger.

International Environment:

1. No countries want Cold War, Japan doesn't, Aussie doesn't, Korea doesn't, maybe except US.
2. Soviet has not much relationship with US allies. China has more trade and commercial relationship with US allies than US itself.
3. China is the biggest single market and biggest trade partners of most countries in the world.
4. China retail market is over 6 trillions, bigger then US, and increasing much faster then US.
5. China enjoyed much better neighborhood relationship and has very close ties with all neighbors, especially Russia, Central Asia, South East Asia.

Conclusion:

1. There is no way US can isolate China.
2. The US allies actually using hedging tactic between China and US.
3. China has back safeguarded, mainly focus on one side which is West Pacific.
4. China has much greater potential to dominate West Pacific, while US has reach it's peak.
5. The geopolitics is in China favor.
6. US empire is declining, inner issues is much bigger then outer challenges.
7. US financial situation is deteriorating.

The balance of power is shifting quickly. US has already withdraw to Guam and Aussie. The first island chain is fragile, ROI is bad.

Please let me know your thought.

you have thrown a lot of number, so let me share some for your reference --

1. combined GGP if QUAD is $30 trillion (US 20+ Japan 5+ India 3+ Aus 2) vs $ 15 trillion for China. At PPP term its $36 trillion vs $22 trillion for China

2. Combined defence budget of QUAD is $900 billion vs $200 billion for china

3. Combined Navy for QUAD is - 15 carrier vs 2 carrier, 150 destroyers vs ~50 destroyers, 110 subs vs 70 subs (mostly diesel), naval aviation of 5000+ aircrafts vs less than 1000 (only 40 carrier based),

4. China has no capability to project power beyond its shorelines. for the so much taunted biggest navy in the world, 180 out of 400 ships are corvettes and frigates for costal defence ..

5. No allies - China can count N Korea or Pakistan at best, if they are worth any consideration

6. you wished two front war for India, but now staring at possibility of three front war in the Himalayas, SCS and North Pacific...

and the list can go on for long..

the point is-- climb down from your high horse

 

[vi-va]

you have thrown a lot of number, so let me share some for your reference --

1. combined GGP if QUAD is $30 trillion (US 20+ Japan 5+ India 3+ Aus 2) vs $ 15 trillion for China. At PPP term its $36 trillion vs $22 trillion for China

2. Combined defence budget of QUAD is $900 billion vs $200 billion for china

3. Combined Navy for QUAD is - 15 carrier vs 2 carrier, 150 destroyers vs ~50 destroyers, 110 subs vs 70 subs (mostly diesel), naval aviation of 5000+ aircrafts vs less than 1000 (only 40 carrier based),

4. China has no capability to project power beyond its shorelines. for the so much taunted biggest navy in the world, 180 out of 400 ships are corvettes and frigates for costal defence ..

5. No allies - China can count N Korea or Pakistan at best, if they are worth any consideration

6. you wished two front war for India, but now staring at possibility of three front war in the Himalayas, SCS and North Pacific...

and the list can go on for long..

the point is-- climb down from your high horse

Good numbers.
Let me ask you simple question.

1. When India pilot was captured by Pakistan on Feb 27th, any countries helped India to get pilot back?
2. When India soldiers got beaten up on Jun 15th, 20 killed including commander, 76 injured, 10 captured, any countries stand up for India and say they will fight for you?

Every country pursue their own interest and interest only.

The love affair between US and India is so romantic that

1. US would like to sell you highly over priced 30 MQ-9B Predator for $3 billion, 100 millions each.
2. France would like to sell India highly overpriced 36 new Rafale fighter jets in 7.87 billion euro, 200 millions each.

It seems to me that, instead of India finding a sugar daddy, US/France picked up an Indian wallet, while hundreds of millions Indians are living in slum.

What a romantic love affair. What a foolish cannon fodder.

 

[manga]

Lot of non-sense has gone in this thread it will be not worth it to counter it line by line.

But its laughable when someone stupidly asks question repeteadly will US fight for india. That person dont have brain enough that when india has not faught for US, and there is no such treaty signed for vice versa, why will US fight for india or vice versa. It seems common sense is not that common after all.

 

[padamchen]

Lot of non-sense has gone in this thread it will be not worth it to counter it line by line.

But its laughable when someone stupidly asks question repeteadly will US fight for india. That person dont have brain enough that when india has not faught for US, and there is no such treaty signed for vice versa, why will US fight for india or vice versa. It seems common sense is not that common after all.

What is equally missed is that a world war never starts because of allies rallying around one of their own being attacked.

Each country jumps in when threatened, to protect its own.

Interests then converge.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Saudang]

Good numbers.
Let me ask you simple question.

1. When India pilot was captured by Pakistan on Feb 27th, any countries helped India to get pilot back?
2. When India soldiers got beaten up on Jun 15th, 20 killed including commander, 76 injured, 10 captured, any countries stand up for India and say they will fight for you?

Every country pursue their own interest and interest only.

The love affair between US and India is so romantic that

1. US would like to sell you highly over priced 30 MQ-9B Predator for $3 billion, 100 millions each.
2. France would like to sell India highly overpriced 36 new Rafale fighter jets in 7.87 billion euro, 200 millions each.

It seems to me that, instead of India finding a sugar daddy, US/France picked up an Indian wallet, while hundreds of millions Indians are living in slum.

What a romantic love affair. What a foolish cannon fodder.

View attachment 726979

why would India need anyone else when it can beat up scores of Chinese soldiers on its own. It was China who has withdrawn from Galwan and pangongso .. did you ever wonder why China with so much of great capabilities had to withdraw against a much lesser power ? But you guys want to take on the global superpower who is few decades ahead of you in power projection and technology..

for the chinese macho - Japan, a country one tenth of your size made you guys look like headless chickens in WW 2 or Vietnam put you into your place in the war with them .. What is stopping you from rolling over Taiwan, a country 1/50 your size in economy or military ? you guys are far behind in getting into a war with anyone, forget about winning it.

What did you want to prove by attaching that photo? that we are poor? yes we are poor and we acknowledge it..

For Chinese like you, just remember that there are 84 other countries with better Human development index and better life of citizens than china.. A poor in the US with $14000 per annum income is still $4000 richer than average chinese..

For India, we pay premium for the defence products, because we can

 

[vi-va]

why would India need anyone else when it can beat up scores of Chinese soldiers on its own. It was China who has withdrawn from Galwan and pangongso .. did you ever wonder why China with so much of great capabilities had to withdraw against a much lesser power ? But you guys want to take on the global superpower who is few decades ahead of you in power projection and technology..

for the chinese macho - Japan, a country one tenth of your size made you guys look like headless chickens in WW 2 or Vietnam put you into your place in the war with them .. What is stopping you from rolling over Taiwan, a country 1/50 your size in economy or military ? you guys are far behind in getting into a war with anyone, forget about winning it.

What did you want to prove by attaching that photo? that we are poor? yes we are poor and we acknowledge it..

For Chinese like you, just remember that there are 84 other countries with better Human development index and better life of citizens than china.. A poor in the US with $14000 per annum income is still $4000 richer than average chinese..

For India, we pay premium for the defence products, because we can

You never lived in US or any other so called rich country, or do you?

In US, if you annual income is $14000, you are literally on the street.

 

[Saudang]

You never lived in US or any other so called rich country, or do you?

In US, if you annual income is $14000, you are literally on the street.

I lived in Sweden for more than 7 years and a PR holder in Australia, for your reference

 

[vi-va]

I lived in Sweden for more than 7 years and a PR holder in Australia, for your reference

How much you spent annually? I paid my rent $1400 per month 12 years ago in US, until I bought my house.

$14000 annually in US is on the street if you don't have a living place.

 

[Saudang]

How much you spent annually? I paid my rent $1400 per month 12 years ago in US, until I bought my house.

$14000 annually in US is on the street if you don't have a living place.

then lets talk about PPP per capita in 2020 - China - $17000, US - $63000, India - $6200

by the way, i pay AU$650+ per week in south Sydney