Qandeel Baloch, NOT just a honor killing case.

[Salik]

This is what happens when you quote ayat without knowing the background. First this ayat is for Kufar specially those of opposite state. Secondly Islam is a complete system with state had prime responsibility of implementing Islamic laws and Halal things and stopping all sorts of Haram. Qandeel brother had no right to kill her but she was also nothing but a pathetic and disgusting women breaking laws and guidelines of Islam. Now it was state responsibility to stop her arrest her and put her in counselling and until Government wakes up from sleep and start implementing Islamic laws it's impossible to stop these kind of cases. That's the reality whether you like it or not. @Arsalan @Salik

Yea that ayat was for Kufar. Thats why start punishing Muslims. No doubt Muslims are killing one another.

Do you know @Zarvan saab one of the lady of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H family wore a transparent kind of dress. The Prophet turned his face away and didn't talk to her unless she realized and changed the dress.

That is your red line. You don't like you don't see. Views decrease person dies his/her own death.

You need to change people's minds. You search how to do that.

 

[Zarvan]

Yea that ayat was for Kufar. Thats why start punishing Muslims. No doubt Muslims are killing one another.

Do you know @Zarvan saab one of the lady of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H family wore a transparent kind of dress. The Prophet turned his face away and didn't talk to her unless she realized and changed the dress.

That is your red line. You don't like you don't see. Views decrease person dies his/her own death.

You need to change people's minds. You search how to do that.

This was in Makkah in Madinah no one was allowed to break the law also in time of Caliph Islamic law was fully enforced. In Islam it's duty of every Muslim and biggest of state to enforce and implement Islamic laws and speed Halal and stopping Haram state failure would only make sure people do it which can turn into chaos.

. "Whoever amongst you sees an evil should change it with his hand. If he is unable to do that then with his tongue. If he is unable to do that, then with his heart, and that is the weakest level of Iman." [Muslim]

 

[Arsalan]

This is what happens when you quote ayat without knowing the background. First this ayat is for Kufar specially those of opposite state. Secondly Islam is a complete system with state had prime responsibility of implementing Islamic laws and Halal things and stopping all sorts of Haram. Qandeel brother had no right to kill her but she was also nothing but a pathetic and disgusting women breaking laws and guidelines of Islam. Now it was state responsibility to stop her arrest her and put her in counselling and until Government wakes up from sleep and start implementing Islamic laws it's impossible to stop these kind of cases. That's the reality whether you like it or not. @Arsalan @Salik

I wont judge her knowing how good of a Muslim i myself am, for me, this is my concern, what kind of Mulim i myself am and that is it! However you are right in saying that:

1. Her brother was wrong and must be brought to justice for this murder.
2. She herself was not something i would like to be a role model for my sister or my kids. (still by no way it means one should kill her)

For me, education is something that is required and it is responsibility of our Masajid and Mullahs to preach and educated people about the truth about this. Are they doing so? unfortunately not!! If we have to put everything on government then the system wont progress. Everyone have to do there part for us to be a progressing nation and society.

 

[Zarvan]

The Prophet sallallaahu 'alahi wasallam said,

“By the One in Whose hand is my soul, you must certainly command the good and forbid evil, or else a punishment from Him would soon be sent upon you, after which you would call upon Him yet your supplication (dua) would not be answered.”

[Tirmidhi]







The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wasallam also described that when the people of knowledge in previous communities stopped condemning the evils of their societies and kept on socializing with evildoers despite the wrongs, Allah turned the hearts of the community against one another and cursed them upon the tongue of their prophets

(peace and blessings be upon them).

[Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi]







The Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam said,

“Whoever sees something evil should change it with his hand. If he cannot, then with his tongue; and if he cannot do even that, then in his heart. That is the weakest degree of faith.”

[Muslim]







On the authority of Ibn Mas`ud that the Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) said,

“There was not a single Prophet among those who were sent before me who did not have apostles and companions and followed his Sunna and obeyed his commands. But afterwards other generations came whose words belied their deeds, and whose deeds were not in accordance with what they commanded others to do. Whoever struggles against them with his hand is a believer. Whoever struggles against them with his tongue is a believer. And whoever struggles against them with his heart is a believer. But when none of these things are done, then not a single mustard’s seed weight of faith is present.”

[Muslim]

I wont judge her knowing how good of a Muslim i myself am, for me, this is my concern, what kind of Mulim i myself am and that is it! However you are right in saying that:

1. Her brother was wrong and must be brought to justice for this murder.
2. She herself was not something i would like to be a role model for my sister or my kids. (still by no way it means one should kill her)

For me, education is something that is required and it is responsibility of our Masajid and Mullahs to preach and educated people about the truth about this. Are they doing so? unfortunately not!! If we have to put everything on government then the system wont progress. Everyone have to do there part for us to be a progressing nation and society.

In Islam every person who is in some position is responsible for spreading good and forbidding evil and because of that state head or the leader and in current times Government has main responsibility to do it if they won't than people will do it

 

[Arsalan]

In Islam every person who is in some position is responsible for spreading good and forbidding evil and because of that state head or the leader and in current times Government has main responsibility to do it if they won't than people will do it

Of spreading good and stoping evil! Not judging people and killing them based on your judgement. There are LAWS that need to be applied and if they are not, still people wont have the right to go on a killing spree!! NOTHING WILL JUSTIFY EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING and it is as simple as that. Stating that i killed someone because gov. was not punishing him wont get you anywhere in this world or the next. The problem is that we are not bothered about educating our masses but are just stubborn that whatever i say is right and that is it! This is the same attitude that have caused us much more damage then the non-Muslims could ever have done and this is exactly what we still come across today. Unless those extremist mullahs and extremist liberals are both dealt with the problem will continue. It is the job of the Islamic scholars and institutes to educated people about these things but they are much more busy finding who is Kafir!

 

[Zarvan]

Of spreading good and stoping evil! Not judging people and killing them based on your judgement. There are LAWS that need to be applied and if they are not, still people wont have the right to go on a killing spree!! NOTHING WILL JUSTIFY EXTRA JUDICIAL KILLING and it is as simple as that. Stating that i killed someone because gov. was not punishing him wont get you anywhere in this world or the next. The problem is that we are not bothered about educating our masses but are just stubborn that whatever i say is right and that is it! This is the same attitude that have caused us much more damage then the non-Muslims could ever have done and this is exactly what we still come across today. Unless those extremist mullahs and extremist liberals are both dealt with the problem will continue. It is the job of the Islamic scholars and institutes to educated people about these things but they are much more busy finding who is Kafir!

I never justified killing but state has to make laws against Vulgarity and those who break should be sent to Jail for two to 6 months. Jail for these kind of offensives should also act like a counselling centre where they are told about their mistakes and taught religious books. Yes we have to educate masses to do that best way is to teach Quran and Sunnah in detail in schools and up to University level. All things have to happen together only doing one thing won't work.

 

[Arsalan]

I never justified killing but state has to make laws against Vulgarity and those who break should be sent to Jail for two to 6 months. Jail for these kind of offensives should also act like a counselling centre where they are told about their mistakes and taught religious books. Yes we have to educate masses to do that best way is to teach Quran and Sunnah in detail in schools and up to University level. All things have to happen together only doing one thing won't work.

I never said you justified them. I was the one who said you didnt and that you were right!

See?

An excellent opening post but a bit disappointed with this one.

@Zarvan clearly mentioned that killing was wrong and in fact started his post with words like "What ever the reason her brother had no right to kill her...."
In fact, he also mentioned how laws need to be made and implemented.

And in addition to this is just stress on the need for the concerned people, the ones with Islamic knowledge and the concerned institutions, the Masajid and Madrassas to step forward and try contribute something positive to the society and most importantly to the religion they represent. Chanting Amreka Kutta hai hai wont get us much far in the world and we need to realize our own mistakes, educate our own people and only then we can progress. Only then!

 

[abdulbarijan]

@Moonlight .. Legit points and a good read overall.. except the whole ... not so subtle address to the Indian community on here. Most of the people around here know the stats and all, so there is no reason to feed the trolls by explicitly mentioning all that what happens on the east...

Coming to a point you made regarding the media which I found especially intriguing and I may differ with you on this ...

Further, if it is a honor killing case, then where media stands on this case? In a society like Pakistan, the ratio of mothers/fathers on Facebook or any other social media as comparing to young generation is very small. A young male or female won't be telling their parents about ms Qandeel and her videos, for the most part. Also, women and men in rural areas get touched to the world and get themselves updated about national news from electronic media. After interviewing ms. Baloch and calling her on different talk shows on tv and telling about her activities on social media, must have made her family’s life way to hard. Then who's gonna question media here? Who was she? She was never a greatest model of Pakistan? Then why making so called breaking news on her all activities? Why revealing her real identity? This is another huge reason in her murder. So who's is gonna question media here? Think about all these questions before giving your final comments on her murder. .

Lets just face the facts .. the media channels may market themselves as "providers of the truth" and all .. but the fact is the channels are running a business as well, and they need good ratings in order to generate revenues i.e. by selling air time for ads etc. Hence, in an environment where there is a list of competitors, a channel will go to all lengths to secure the spot which sets itself apart from other channels. That is the reason you have channels giving little snippets like .. We were the first ones to report such and such, going undercover etc.

With the youth more interested in the cyber space then the good old way to get entertainment i.e. T.V, what does the electronic media have to do to tap in the youth demographic ? .. the answer is obvious .. cover social media trends and controversial figures such as Qandeel, mathira and the list goes on. And lets face the facts, she didn't mind the coverage exactly now did she ? .. She hopped on to any opportunity she could find to stay relevant, be it the whole striptease drama of the world cup, her videos on social media and the whole Maulana thing ...

So while there is indeed a media aspect attached to the whole story, I don't think you can all of a sudden flip around and put blame on them for doing the exact same thing they were doing before .... Let's not forget Qandeel herself aired dirty laundry of people using both electronic and social media, so if she can air that to the public in the name of "sharing the truth" .... Why do we have a problem if the same scale is applied to her by the media ?

The central point being, if its anybody's personal life ... we should make up our minds if the media should air such things or not (after all it is us the consumers that derive the demand of what the media puts out) ...Let's not pick and choose between whose dirty laundry is "air-able" ...

With that said though, she didn't deserved to be killed and those who are responsible should get whats coming to them i.e. the worst punishment the law has to dish out.

Good for you when you get big egg in metric exams papa jo pusht pe jotay k print banayen gey tab meri baat yaad kerna. Jab laal laal doi ler kr mama se gharam towel k takore hongey tab samjh aai ghi. waste your time since its urzz. anyway.

Great choice of words .. I suppose you won't have any problems if someone were to use similar words for you ?

 

[WhyCry]

This is a joke. What is to blame is triablist culture, which is mutal to not just Pakistan and India, but also the Middle East and Central Asia.

Surely you can't blame Pakistan or ISI for honor killings in India, including Saati (the practice of burning wives when their husbands die) so it is not Pakistan, but the pan-tribalist culture that infects South Asia, Central Asia, the Middle East and North Africa.

Well I agree with you that there is tribalist culture in south asia. But the society and the people have to fight it; at least the newer generation. Not to make this a India-pakistan issue but more on the society based issue. The indian society removed the tradition since atleast 90 years. I am not blaming the Pakistan as a country but pakistani society.

Sure, this not a joke but murder, not by a person but a society.

 

[Moonlight]

An excellent opening post but a bit disappointed with this one.

@Zarvan clearly mentioned that killing was wrong and in fact started his post with words like "What ever the reason her brother had no right to kill her...."
In fact, he also mentioned how laws need to be made and implemented.

Thanks. And was there any point to call her s***? Secondly, I believe she needed some guidance before taking her life. Why would her brother kill her when she is the same person who gave him money to start his cellphones shop? Ghairat?
Even Islam teaches us to give people some chances and call them to right path before giving up on them. Rest, perhaps, I misunderstood him. Apologize for that.

 

[T-123456]

What ever the reason her brother had no right to kill her. But on the other hand she was no role model but a bad disgusting example and a S###. Main thing is in Islam every Muslim and specially state has responsibility of doing Amar Bil Maruf Nahi Anil Munkar in English we call it spreading good and stopping Haram or bad stuff. State needs to wake up make laws against vulgarity and ban these kind of women from media. State failure of doing its duty will only increase chaos.

Killing your sister for such a reason is not Haram,your own flesh an blood?

 

[Moonlight]

@Moonlight .. Legit points and a good read overall.. except the whole ... not so subtle address to the Indian community on here. Most of the people around here know the stats and all, so there is no reason to feed the trolls by explicitly mentioning all that what happens on the east...

Coming to a point you made regarding the media which I found especially intriguing and I may differ with you on this ...



Lets just face the facts .. the media channels may market themselves as "providers of the truth" and all .. but the fact is the channels are running a business as well, and they need good ratings in order to generate revenues i.e. by selling air time for ads etc. Hence, in an environment where there is a list of competitors, a channel will go to all lengths to secure the spot which sets itself apart from other channels. That is the reason you have channels giving little snippets like .. We were the first ones to report such and such, going undercover etc.

With the youth more interested in the cyber space then the good old way to get entertainment i.e. T.V, what does the electronic media have to do to tap in the youth demographic ? .. the answer is obvious .. cover social media trends and controversial figures such as Qandeel, mathira and the list goes on. And lets face the facts, she didn't mind the coverage exactly now did she ? .. She hopped on to any opportunity she could find to stay relevant, be it the whole striptease drama of the world cup, her videos on social media and the whole Maulana thing ...

So while there is indeed a media aspect attached to the whole story, I don't think you can all of a sudden flip around and put blame on them for doing the exact same thing they were doing before .... Let's not forget Qandeel herself aired dirty laundry of people using both electronic and social media, so if she can air that to the public in the name of "sharing the truth" .... Why do we have a problem if the same scale is applied to her by the media ?

The central point being, if its anybody's personal life ... we should make up our minds if the media should air such things or not (after all it is us the consumers that derive the demand of what the media puts out) ...Let's not pick and choose between whose dirty laundry is "air-able" ...

With that said though, she didn't deserved to be killed and those who are responsible should get whats coming to them i.e. the worst punishment the law has to dish out.



Great choice of words .. I suppose you won't have any problems if someone were to use similar words for you ?

Thanks and I never wanted to feed trolls. But some mates here put all the blames on Islam without having enough knowledge.
Ok now as per media, see the problem is, she wanted fame at any point but those anchors are some mature people they needed to sit and talk with editorial and keep all the afterwards consequences in mind before giving her the platform to seek attention. Social media didn't kill her electronic did play a major role. How? She was on socials media since last few years and on electronic last 2 months or something and she is been killed? Because news channels are watched from an elite class to a person sitting in a small village having no access to social media at all. Another point I want to make here, if you see her pictures of now and back then when she was Fauiza Azeem, one can't tell she is the same person. She was silently winning the breads for her family with wearing a new get up on (yes her way of feeding her family was wrong) but at least rarely people knew who was she. Media started finding out her real name and pictures and break a news about her real identity, and about her marriages, it did nothing but lead to her murder.
Who was she? She wasn't a super model, or role model or anything then what was the point to give her so unnecessary attention and making every news related to her a breaking news? Not just in this case overall media is feeding evil in society.
And no problem you can use the same words I won't mind

 

[Moonlight]

Do you have any proves for your baseless allegations, how you know all this even you not spare her elderly parents specially her mother.
@Arsalan @Moonlight

This is unbelievable. As per my knowledge such women don't have families and her mother has 2 more daughters and sons as well. And look at people are character assassination of her mother now..........without any proves.

 

[Beckett Seafish]

Because women are symbol of honor, not men? I'm not taking men's side nor Am I favoring honor killing. Honor killing is totally forbidden in our religion. I'm just saying that only a woman has been given such a high honorable stature in Islam that she has been a symbol of honor. Moreover honor is to be protected, not to be "killed".
Where was this "honorable" brother when Qandeel's husband was physically abusing her? Or where was his honor when her parents were marrying her without her consent? Honoring women is not a bad thing. Its a Dignified
status.

While media was asking questions to her brother (Waseem), he said that he isn't embarrassed by what he did. He was clearly out of mind and illiterate person.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

It is never an easy task to write on some subjects like, religion, extremism, women rights and honor killing.
Before jumping into conclusion of any story, one should study its background of and see the 3rd dimension of the case. Think out of the box before giving your thoughts. The recent case of Qandeel Baloch’s murder is not clearly a case of honor killing. There must be some chances and I don't deny it. But there's a lot more to that. A lot!
Every country has its norms and culture and its limits, so does Pakistan. And ms Baloch started making these bold and incongruous videos years back. These videos were completely unacceptable for the society like Pakistan. But during all those years she was never threaten by anyone. And her family was well aware of it. Then why all of sudden her brother’s so called ‘ghairat’ (honor) arouse? Ever wonder? She was a controversial personality since the day she started gaining attention on social media. All those years, where was her brother? He who used to take money from her sister, where was his ‘ghairat’ at that time? I am not interested in creating conspiracies here. But I can't stop myself to think on all other aspects of her murder. Why she was murder after few weeks of her scandal with mufti Qavi? Why her brother wanted to escape to some other country? It was part of the plan. Brother who used to take money from her could afford to leave the country? Further, if it is a honor killing case, then where media stands on this case? In a society like Pakistan, the ratio of mothers/fathers on Facebook or any other social media as comparing to young generation is very small. A young male or female won't be telling their parents about ms Qandeel and her videos, for the most part. Also, women and men in rural areas get touched to the world and get themselves updated about national news from electronic media. After interviewing ms. Baloch and calling her on different talk shows on tv and telling about her activities on social media, must have made her family’s life way to hard. Then who's gonna question media here? Who was she? She was never a greatest model of Pakistan? Then why making so called breaking news on her all activities? Why revealing her real identity? This is another huge reason in her murder. So who's is gonna question media here? Think about all these questions before giving your final comments on her murder. Having said that, we must understand, lack of education is another factor of honor killing in society. Honor killing is mostly seen in illiterate people. Eduction is needed so they can read the definition of ‘ghairat’. They either have misread the meaning of word ghairat or never even read anything about it. Pakistan needs more schools than roads.

Moreover, some people are blaming Islam for honor killing. Please study Islam before writing up something you have no knowledge about. Find yourselves a single verse from Quran or hadiths on honor killing, if you can. Islam is the first religion to give women rights. Officially!
Additionally, some non Pakistanis are taking their hates on Pakistan and painting the image of Pakistan as one worst country for women. Please don't make me talk with statistics about honor killing and rape cases in your country. Yours might be the one top country. Think twice before uttering your hate out.
And NO women are not killed in Pakistan for having dreams and ambitions. Pakistani women are in armed forces, they're pilots, doctors, surgeons, engineers, police officers, anchors, mountaineers, they are sport women, lawyers, judges and you name it.
Ms Baloch was one exceptional case. She is not killed for having ambitions. She did cross her limits, but she never deserved to be killed. This is condemned under the law of Pakistan and even in Islam. I understand your hate for Pakistan, but stop making things up to show your hate. And must look at your country before pointing on others.

Lastly, I pray for her forgiveness of her wrongdoings and may Allah show his mercy on her. Amen!


(While I was typing this up, her mother on media was telling, someone else forced her son to murder her).

Good Write as usual but i stand with @Mav3rick stance on the matter.