Qaher F313 l News & Discussion

[VEVAK]

@That Guy have you ever considered the possibility of the first version of Qaher that was revealed (and rediculed to death) was actually a scaled-down-fly-worthy-proof-of-concept? Not a prototype, not a mock-up!

Aeee NO!!!!!!!!!! because the canopy of the cockpit shown would have likely ripped off the aircraft before it could even reach 400KPH! The canopy opened from the front with no latch to seal too!!!!!!!!! SO NO! It was a MOCK UP and only an Idiot would have built a canopy like that on any kind of manned aircraft capable of flight!

 

[TheImmortal]

@That Guy have you ever considered the possibility of the first version of Qaher that was revealed (and rediculed to death) was actually a scaled-down-fly-worthy-proof-of-concept? Not a prototype, not a mock-up!

I have reiterated that possibility. The Qaher will have to get LARGER. Look at F-22 prototype then look at final design! The intakes will drop down and the tipped wings will become straight.

The use of dual J-85 engines in recent prototype is I think a temporary place holder for a larger more capable engine.

It really comes down to if IRGC/Air Force pick it up.

I fear that the project will ultimately be shelved in favor of IRGC’s CAS fighter that has begun development.

As well all know, IRGC has much more resources and capable production protocols to field a fighter compared to Air Force aligned industries.

 

[VEVAK]

Blame your incompetent president Rafsanjani for why Iran lacks bomber technology. In the 90’s, Iran could have acquired TU-22 bombers from a collapsed Soviet Union. Rafsanjani decided against it.

Instead Iran loaded up on freaking T-72 tanks.

The knowledge Iran could have gleamed from TU-22 could directly lead to a manned bomber project.

As you know I really think Iran needs a manned/unmanned Flying wing bomber.

Main problem is engines, cooling the engine exhaust, advanced EW package, advanced targeting packaging, and radar absorbing skin.

Obviously biggest problem is engines, the most powerful engine in Iran’s inventory is F-14 engine. I am not sure if Iran has AL-31 engines in its inventory as the SU-22 uses that engine as well.

4 F-14 or AL-31 engines could be used in a flying wing design. Not sure how efficient it would be.

Right because having F-14's in our fleet for nearly half a century helped us build F-14's and TF-30's!
For now Iran hasn't even reverse engineered the C-130's or F-14's or MiG-29's...…. and your talking Tu-22....

Unfortunately, Iran's Airforce lacks the mentality needed to reverse engineer the Tu-22 because if Iran had simply reverse engineered the F-14's they could have built a manned bomber around them or from the knowledge gained from reverse engineering and producing them.

And I would say the choice was more along the line of buying 3 kilo class subs as appose to a single Tu-22 and Iran's Oil interests made that purchase far more attractable.

 

[TheImmortal]

Aeee NO!!!!!!!!!! because the canopy of the cockpit shown would have likely ripped off the aircraft before it could even reach 400KPH! The canopy opened from the front with no latch to seal too!!!!!!!!! SO NO! It was a MOCK UP and only an Idiot would have built a canopy like that on any kind of manned aircraft capable of flight!

Recent taxi prototype proves you wrong. The project is basically at the same point as Kowsar-88 (maybe a little further behind). F-313 and Kowsar-88 have both taxi’d and both have likely flown by now.

The issue is will anyone be interested in F-313 to continue to provide funding.

IRGC is already working on their own CAS fighter and Iran Airforce is ultra conservative and skeptical of new platforms

Right because having F-14's in our fleet for nearly half a century helped us build F-14's and TF-30's!
For now Iran hasn't even reverse engineered the C-130's or F-14's or MiG-29's...…. and your talking Tu-22....

Unfortunately, Iran's Airforce lacks the mentality needed to reverse engineer the Tu-22 because if Iran had simply reverse engineered the F-14's they could have built a manned bomber around them or from the knowledge gained from reverse engineering and producing them.

And I would say the choice was more along the line of buying 3 kilo class subs as appose to a single Tu-22 and Iran's Oil interests made that purchase far more attractable.

When F-313 was announced, one of the lead people said they asked the SL what he would like them to reverse engineer F-14 or MiG. SL ordered a new aircraft.

F-14 goes directly against IRAN’s philosophy. It is a high maintenance aircraft. Iran can not afford an aircraft like F-14 and F-22. For example, an F-22 need heavy maintenance for every hour of flight. Depending on what you read nearly 1/3 of F-22 is grounded! They already canabalizing some F-22’s to keep others airworthy!

A country like the US or china can afford to keep such a fighter, but not Iran!

Iran hasn’t reverse engineered C-130’s because it’s not a priority and you are basically saying for Iran to reverse engineer a passenger plane! Not many countries in the world can do that!

But you are right about one thing: mentality.

Iran’s military has the worst mentality among major world powers when it comes to innovation.

Iran needs an advanced fighter that is versatile and easy to maintain during war conditions. Typically Russian planes follow this philosophy.

 

[Sina-1]

Aeee NO!!!!!!!!!! because the canopy of the cockpit shown would have likely ripped off the aircraft before it could even reach 400KPH! The canopy opened from the front with no latch to seal too!!!!!!!!! SO NO! It was a MOCK UP and only an Idiot would have built a canopy like that on any kind of manned aircraft capable of flight!

The only idiots are the ones who think that Iran would do such a miserable job in an alleged mockup.

'

The cockpit has analog speed indicators of 200 mph BECAUSE GUESS WHAT: That is the actual top-speed (probably even lower) of this PROOF-OF-CONCEPT. The notion of the shown aircraft being a POC actually makes sense to many of the hasty finishes of the vehicle. A POC does not have to be flawless. On the contrary a POC has a very limited use of just proving essential technological enables and it should be cheap and quick to build. If you put too much money on a POC then you are truly an idiot. In this case, I would guess, it would be the ground effect due to the unconventional layout of the aircraft. So VEVAK, this canopy would be ripped a part no more than a DA20 would. I know because I freakin fly them.

 

[mohsen]

The issue is will anyone be interested in F-313 to continue to provide funding.

There is no doubt in an F313 interceptor.
what Gen Dehghan mentioned was just about the first phase of Qaher which due to the lack of proper engine, radar (and probably even internal weapons bay) was just a CAS/patrol aircraft.

IRGC is already working on their own CAS fighter

Not true.

and Iran Airforce is ultra conservative and skeptical of new platforms

Not true.

When F-313 was announced, one of the lead people said they asked the SL what he would like them to reverse engineer F-14 or MiG. SL ordered a new aircraft.

Question was between reverse engineering and new design, order was new design.

Iran hasn’t reverse engineered C-130’s because it’s not a priority and you are basically saying for Iran to reverse engineer a passenger plane! Not many countries in the world can do that!

But you are right about one thing: mentality.

Iran’s military has the worst mentality among major world powers when it comes to innovation.

It has nothing to do with priority or mentality, there is no magical delete button to end two centuries backwardness of Qajar and Pahlavi dynasties, while also facing endless wars, sanctions and sabotages.

If we are talking about 5th generation fighter just 40 years after revolution, it's already a miracle and a sign of the right mentality.

 

[VEVAK]

The only idiots are the ones who think that Iran would do such a miserable job in an alleged mockup.

'

The cockpit has analog speed indicators of 200 mph BECAUSE GUESS WHAT: That is the actual top-speed (probably even lower) of this PROOF-OF-CONCEPT. The notion of the shown aircraft being a POC actually makes sense to many of the hasty finishes of the vehicle. A POC does not have to be flawless. On the contrary a POC has a very limited use of just proving essential technological enables and it should be cheap and quick to build. If you put too much money on a POC then you are truly an idiot. In this case, I would guess, it would be the ground effect due to the unconventional layout of the aircraft. So VEVAK, this canopy would be ripped a part no more than a DA20 would. I know because I freakin fly them.

SO according to you your proof is that Iran would do a miserable job on an actual flying aircraft with a pilot inside but wouldn't do a miserable job on a freaking mockup!!!!!!!!! LOL!

FYI slapping on a few real equipment sitting in a storage somewhere is by far easier than trying to build a fake version of them!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!

SO IT DOES NOT make it anymore than a mockup!

Iranian engineers are NOT IDIOT's and they WOULD NOT build a canopy like that on a design that hasn't even been proven yet and expect a real trained test pilot to jump inside. It's absurd! single seat turboprop aircraft have canopies that are far more secure than that! Just look at the pic you posted! putting in a few laches is really not that complicated so NO it's nothing but a mock up!
This is the working prototype/prof of concept.... And even that is relatively small

 

[That Guy]

What base are you talking about ? Its an absolute chinese light fighter with alleged origins from Mig-33 design. It had no predecessor and probably will have no successor either. No plane at mock-up stage has any base, designs change, aerodynamics are modified, power-plants needs are evolved, avionics and combat suite keep changing even after production and years of service. Qaher as a project will evolve too. Its aerodynamics, size, power plant choices all will change too based upon needs, role, political climate (foreign procurement). You can laugh as much as you want but one day this plane will fly because rationally speaking IRIAF needs it. Iranian doctrine needs it to provide CAS to our across border forces. Also to provide air cover to growing surface fleet in persian gulf in future and in anti shipping role. A very low RCS, nimble fighter that can launch ARH AShCM from within Iranian AD coverage zone will be handy. Its pretty similar to how IRGC needed a strong missile program and today we have that.

People may have laughed at Iran in 1980s and 90s as well when it was testing SS-1 copies but same Iran can now fire Guided solid fueled MaRVs with less than 10 m CEP. Same IRGC can now fire Cruise missiles at 2000 + km ... Whether they want CBRN warheads on these weapons is a political decision not a matter of capability for Iran because you can not stop an engineer or a scientist from thinking. Specially from a country like Iran with one of the highest STEM output in the world.

If you're talking about the JF-17, than it's origins don't come from the mig 33, but rather the mig 21, along with allegedly the f16.

The rest of your comment is really just filler that doesn't really a dress anything. I never said anything about changes to the base design, but it's been a long time, and you'd think there would be something by now.

Needs aren't always equal to reality. China needs a new reliable engine, but it has found that harder to achieve than it previously thought, having to constantly push back it's schedule. This is despite allegedly spending $100 billion dollars on engines alone.

Anyways, my point still stands. If it flies, that's fine, good for Iran, but I have yet to see evidence for it.

Than again, I'm just a guy on the internet, they don't really have to prove anything to me, lmao.

I don't agree. I am fairly certain it is an actual project, but it was revealed in a manner that ended in ridicule. Of course the western media at the time looked for any little thing to ridicule Iran with.

You have a right to be skeptical (as many of us are too). I think the best thing to do is just let time deal with this issue and reveal the truth.

Edit: I think people here need to relax. just because @That Guy is skeptical of qaher it does not make him anti-Iran etc. He is just unsure of a project that most of us are unsure of too. So please refrain from some of these attacks and stick to constructive discussions.

And like I've said before, it's perfectly alright to believe this project exists. Iran does have a history of proving it's skeptics wrong, and does have a fairly robust defense industry.

On the topic being relaxing, I'm used to it, Lmao. It always ends up being like this, whenever I criticise anything or anyone.

 

[Kastor]

If this airplane ever sees mass production I will shave my head and sport a mohawk. This is aircraft will be die a quiet death. The money has already been milked.

 

[VEVAK]

Recent taxi prototype proves you wrong. The project is basically at the same point as Kowsar-88 (maybe a little further behind). F-313 and Kowsar-88 have both taxi’d and both have likely flown by now.

The issue is will anyone be interested in F-313 to continue to provide funding.

IRGC is already working on their own CAS fighter and Iran Airforce is ultra conservative and skeptical of new platforms



When F-313 was announced, one of the lead people said they asked the SL what he would like them to reverse engineer F-14 or MiG. SL ordered a new aircraft.

F-14 goes directly against IRAN’s philosophy. It is a high maintenance aircraft. Iran can not afford an aircraft like F-14 and F-22. For example, an F-22 need heavy maintenance for every hour of flight. Depending on what you read nearly 1/3 of F-22 is grounded! They already canabalizing some F-22’s to keep others airworthy!

A country like the US or china can afford to keep such a fighter, but not Iran!

Iran hasn’t reverse engineered C-130’s because it’s not a priority and you are basically saying for Iran to reverse engineer a passenger plane! Not many countries in the world can do that!

But you are right about one thing: mentality.

Iran’s military has the worst mentality among major world powers when it comes to innovation.

Iran needs an advanced fighter that is versatile and easy to maintain during war conditions. Typically Russian planes follow this philosophy.

1st off he was NOT referring to the 2nd one, he was referring to the 1st one and my response was about that Aircraft! Not the 2nd one that is a working prototype so I really don't know what your ranting about.

The F-313 hasn't had years of flight tests for the Airforce to approve or disapprove but as for a CAS fighter clearly Iran's Airforce would logically chose the Kowsar.

Now if the Q-313 ends up being as cheap and as capable as some claim it to be when the finished product is built then there is no reason why the Airforce wouldn't want it but for now the current working prototype shown is simply not worth the cost but that is only a working prototype so we'll see! But if the finished product is what they showed then I and most likely any Air Force in the world would no doubt choose the Kowsar for a CAS fighter over it!


As for the Tu-22 you think the Tu-22 is easier to produce than the C-130 and requires less maintenance than an F-14??? LOL! Also C-130's are probably THE MOST vital Military Transport Iran has and if they haven't reverse engineered that yet the idea that we would be reverse engineering Tu-22's is absurd!

If Iran had reverse engineered the F-14 then building a fixed winged version would have been easier!
If Iran had reverse engineered the TF-30's the ability to improve on it to simplify it and make it more maintenance friendly would have been there.....

Iran's has had Al-21's, RD-33, J-79,.... that they could have worked to reverse engineer and improve upon so the idea that if we had a single Tu-22 we would be building bombers today is nothing but an illusion.

I totally agree that Iran needs bombers like the Tu-22 BUT such a bomber would ONLY be useful to Iran if they were domestically built

And don't confuse the Air Force lacking the proper mentality with Iran's military!
Most of all IRGC has had the right mentality, Iran's Navy has had the right mentality, Iran's Air Defense units have had the right mentality, MOD and many MOD companies when it comes to some equipment have had the right mentality, PANHA for Iran's Army Aviation have done OK for the budget available to them when it comes to Helo's....

 

[scythian500]

IRGC is already working on their own CAS fighter

Is there any evidence for that?

 

[TheImmortal]

Is there any evidence for that?

Yes, it was a small announcement that IRGC is forming an Air Force branch. In the meantime, they took crappy planes from Air Force that are not wanted. But they announced their plane to develop an CAS fighter.

It’s directly the result of IRGC lack of crucial air support and reliance on russian air support during Syrian war.

I am sure some Farsi members can find the exact article somewhere around here, it was announced at least 1+ year ago

 

[mohsen]

Yes, it was a small announcement that IRGC is forming an Air Force branch. In the meantime, they took crappy planes from Air Force that are not wanted. But they announced their plane to develop an CAS fighter.

It’s directly the result of IRGC lack of crucial air support and reliance on russian air support during Syrian war.

I am sure some Farsi members can find the exact article somewhere around here, it was announced at least 1+ year ago

There is no such an announcement.

 

[sanel1412]

If Iran has followed what most of you here suggest,not only it would be bunkrupted till now..but probably it would be also "democratized" like Lybia...With Iran under 40 years sanctions there was no way they could build any deterance with by investing in advanced new aircraft...I agree Iran needs everything you said..both..and I bealive Iranian decision maker would also agree..but Iran had to make sure to survive first...now is it going slowly..much more than it should..well probably...is there coruption..nepotizm...and so on..well I'm sure ...Now when iran has some level of deterrence power..they will probably invest more in air force and offansive cpatibility...

 

[TheImmortal]

If Iran has followed what most of you here suggest,not only it would be bunkrupted till now..but probably it would be also "democratized" like Lybia...With Iran under 40 years sanctions there was no way they could build any deterance with by investing in advanced new aircraft...I agree Iran needs everything you said..both..and I bealive Iranian decision maker would also agree..but Iran had to make sure to survive first...now is it going slowly..much more than it should..well probably...is there coruption..nepotizm...and so on..well I'm sure ...Now when iran has some level of deterrence power..they will probably invest more in air force and offansive cpatibility...

More propaganda from apologists.

Iran didn’t have money from 1990-2010 yet it could funnel hundreds of millions of dollars to Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iraqi militias?

IRGC is one of the most wealthy paramilitaries in the world and that is not even taking into account their black market dealings. Rahbar has access to a $60+ BILLION dollar slush fund.

Iran didn’t have money yet it had enough money to start a $100+ billion dollar nuclear program and also a wasteful space program that sent up a handful of token satellites?

Iran didn’t have enough money, yet had plenty of money to allow Babak zanjani and his cronies to steal BILLIONS of dollars from
The state among other fraudsters Who did the same?

Iran has a lot more money than you people realize. The issue of Air Force is purely political and mismanagement.

Apparently you guys fail to realize oil sanctions only started in the last 8 years.

Iran had plenty of opportunity for trade and investment during 1990-2010 period.

In 90’s rial was VERY Strong (700 rials = $1 USD), yet Iran couldn’t “afford” an domestic airforce program? LAUGHABLE!