قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[Fawadqasim1]

dua by the redoubtable faiz
Aaiye hath uthaiyeN hum bhi
Hum jinheN rasm-e-dua yaad nahiN

Hum jinheN soz-e-mohabbat ke siwa
Koyee butt koyee khuda yaad nahiN

Aaiye arz guzaraiN keh nigaar-e-hasti
Zehr-e-imroz meiN sheereeni-e-farda bhar de

Woh jinheN taab-e-garaaN baariye ayyam nahiN
Un kee palkoN peh shab-o-roz ko halka kar de

Jinn kee aankhoN ko rukh-e-subh ka yaara bhi nahiN
Un ki raatoN meiN koi shama munawwar kar de

Jin ke qadmoN ko kisi reh ka sahara bhi nahiN
Un ki nazroN pe koyee raah ujaagar kar de

Jin ka deeN pairawi-e-kizb-o-riya hai un ko
Himmat-e-kufr milay jurrat-e-tehqeeq milay

Jin ke sar muntazir-e-tegh-e-jafa haiN un ko
Dast-e-qatil ko jhatak dainay ki taufeeq milay

Ishq ka sirr-e-nihaN jaan tipa hai jis se
Aaj iqrar kareiN aur tapish mit jaye

Harf-e-haq dil meiN khatakta hai jo kaante ki tarah
Aaj izhaar kareiN aur khalish mit jaye

 

[The Sandman]

Again ... it all comes down to the rulers. Until we have these scumbags pocketing everything, you will not be able to reform the society. It is because of them that we have reached this stage.

IK is our only hope but we as Pakistanis imo should try do something too on our own we should try to correct youngsters who have gone astray who have misunderstood Islam.

 

[Verve]

We are calm. We carry points with valid backing.

At the age you and hell-hound etc are, everything a human thinks is valid and 100% correct. Live a little more, take these 'isms out of your heads and see the world for what it is. Reflect, as Quran repeatedly say to do. What you think being valid now will become invalid 10 years etc down the line.

IK is our only hope but we as Pakistanis imo should try do something too on our own we should try to correct youngsters who have gone astray who have misunderstood Islam.

On IK I agree. Bear in mind one thing though, IK is no liberal minded! He will not touch these laws without a damn good reform programme in place that is bearing fruit. KPK is example where Quran is being taught at school level and it is compulsory.

 

[Divergent]

At the age you and hell-hound etc are, everything a human thinks is valid and 100% correct. Live a little more, take these 'isms out of your heads and see the world for what it is. Reflect, as Quran repeatedly say to do. What you think being valid now will become invalid 10 years etc down the line.

You've no idea how much I'm living

 

[Verve]

You've no idea how much I'm living

Well madam, you have no idea how I've lived the life you are living NOW!

 

[Hell hound]

What you think being valid now will become invalid 10 years etc down the line.

Mate don't want to open the pandora box again but that's the beauty of liberalism it changes with time just like islam encourages us to practice ijtihad

 

[CHACHA"G"]

You haven't seen the shrine yet,, just wait 1 year you will find out the sensitivity and gravity of this Issue... Your approach is wrong , They way you guys "your A-Team" want to do it, it wont going to work only create chaos and anarchy . While opening your mouth without thinking you are creating more problem.
I try to told you many time , there is a reason behind Law and 295-c but you didn't lesson to me and latter you find out ...........
You need to agree here , There is no counter or what so ever narrative out there and Our system is...... well you know well.
We are prisoners of customs , traditions , culture , both type of extremism........ You guys make this issue like "you are with us or against us". You have to change that approach , it was never like that and it will never going to be........
Islam have nothing to do with above all.....
And one more thing , I still want to know where I defended killing??

People celebrating Mumtaz Qadri as a hero are mental and brainwashed.

Someone once handed out food and I asked what its for, they said it was Mumtaz Qadri's death anniversary.

I refused to take it and was in complete shock for atleast 1 good hour because I couldn't absorb how backwards and dangerous ideologies are floating around. Even on here.

Extremism is killing this country and its citizens. Needs to be put on leash or complete shut down.

You sum this up really well , If they can understand.........

If you look at the video of the Nauman Ali, that is exactly the narrative we need to promote.

But, alongside that, there needs to be a serious reform in education. Society is shaped by the education children receive, that's a given. Reforming the society should start with the children too. No two ways about it.

It is all well and good saying 'remove this and that', but to what exactly. Formulate the narrative. Truth and Love always wins, make that the central theme of it. Promote these.

You want to achieve an objective but where is the strategy to achieve it?

As per my limited understanding of Quran and Sunnah, yes there shouldn't be death penalty for blasphemy as Allah will punish and death is nothing in front of that punishment in hell. But saying that there needs to be a mechanism to mute these voices as it creates a mess in the society, that can be in the form of heavy fines and longer jail terms or even no return exile for repeat offenders.

@The Sandman , I hope IK win next election, He is the only one left , rest............. lol you know the rest....... and where the hell is D walla.

 

[Verve]

@Divergent1 What one thinks to brag or boast about now, becomes an embarrassment later in life ... all I will say is to keep the door open for a change before you become a lost cause.

Mate don't want to open the pandora box again but that's the beauty of liberalism it changes with time just like islam encourages us to practice ijtihad

If only you would get out of this liberalism nonsense .... why not cleanse your biases and look at everything on it's own merit. Islam as Islam, Liberalism as that, and so on ..... I used to be just like you ... and when I got sick of this ultra liberal lifestyle, I discarded all bias and started fresh. What a change that brought ... but everyone gets there in one way or another, and some don't. Just don't be the one who don't!

 

[TankMan]

You haven't seen the shrine yet,, just wait 1 year you will find out the sensitivity and gravity of this Issue... Your approach is wrong , They way you guys "your A-Team" want to do it, it wont going to work only create chaos and anarchy . While opening your mouth without thinking you are creating more problem.
I try to told you many time , there is a reason behind Law and 295-c but you didn't lesson to me and latter you find out ...........
You need to agree here , There is no counter or what so ever narrative out there and Our system is...... well you know well.
We are prisoners of customs , traditions , culture , both type of extremism........ You guys make this issue like "you are with us or against us".

So you're saying 295-C was supposed to prevent people from taking the law into their own hands - well, did it work?

There is no coordinated, proper mainstream counter-narrative, yes, that is true. What we are doing on this forum is opposing injustice in principle.

And simply discussing the issue will not cause any chaos.

I'll reiterate that no one is saying we should make blasphemy legal.

Employment!! Financial security! Better lifestyle! Get them busy - idle mind is dangerous and can be easily manipulated - busy making a living!

It is very difficult to reform the poor - just remember that, and the age group you've stated has a criminal level of unemployment!

Again ... it all comes down to the rulers. Until we have these scumbags pocketing everything, you will not be able to reform the society. It is because of them that we have reached this stage.

Yeah, the conditions that lead to these kinds of problems can not be ignored. We need universal education and healthcare and an Islamic welfare system, but before we can do that we need to get people to pay taxes fairly.

Like I was saying on the 'what does it mean to be liberal' thread,

A stronger anti-corruption system is needed, preferably under the judicial branch. Separation of powers needs to be enforced properly. Much stricter laws governing businesses and tax are needed. Most of the population doesn't pay taxes, especially those with power and influence. No wonder we don't have much of a budget.

All the funds being siphoned into offshore accounts need to be recovered or at least regulated. People need to start respecting the legal system, and that can only happen if the system is fair and enforces its authority. Law and order is essential even if we have to compromise on some freedoms to achieve it (slippery slope, I know).

And yes, it all comes down to the rulers once again. Until we get better rulers, we can only hope.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

At the age you and hell-hound etc are, everything a human thinks is valid and 100% correct. Live a little more, take these 'isms out of your heads and see the world for what it is. Reflect, as Quran repeatedly say to do. What you think being valid now will become invalid 10 years etc down the line.



On IK I agree. Bear in mind one thing though, IK is no liberal minded! He will not touch these laws without a damn good reform programme in place that is bearing fruit. KPK is example where Quran is being taught at school level and it is compulsory.

yes sir i agree with you on this one it's called broadening of horizon of thought it comes with age what is it? accumulation of experience in conjunction with knowledge and wisdom. what is it? ability to see the larger picture, bigger part of the collage.

 

[Verve]

And yes, it all comes down to the rulers once again. Until we get better rulers, we can only hope.

Until then, although it doesn't seem that far now, we will continue to have polarisation ...

And it is not the forum, there are street protests and whatnot that is paid by foreign NGO's. Where do all these women come out from to protest for Bhensa etc? There is a concerted effort and strategy to keep this matter boiling in the society, and those on the forum may not be part of that game but are being played nonetheless when influenced.

And then there are some who are the leaders on this forum, the real suspicious fellows, who despite all the reasoning will not change nor accept another's stance. And they call themselves liberals, and we have youth tagging behind them thinking that these lots are the real enlightenment.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

So you're saying 295-C was supposed to prevent people from taking the law into their own hands - well, did it work?

There is no coordinated, proper mainstream counter-narrative, yes, that is true. What we are doing on this forum is opposing injustice in principle.

And simply discussing the issue will not cause any chaos.

I'll reiterate that no one is saying we should make blasphemy legal.

Good to see you are against blasphemy ,,,, Now for 295-c,,,, Dam you just missed the point, Tell me show me who got death plenty from courts since 1990,,,,, O please y you don't want to understand......
And reforms can be done but as soon as you remove the Law ,,, You will se the consequences...
Don't take it as justification of killing , but there are only 70 lives taken by people ..... in 27 years . You remove it and then match the figures . In short that article is working but you wont like to see that.

 

[The Sandman]

On IK I agree. Bear in mind one thing though, IK is no liberal minded! He will not touch these laws without a damn good reform programme in place that is bearing fruit. KPK is example where Quran is being taught at school level and it is compulsory.

No politician is gonna touch these laws until they've a majority of people backing him because everyone is scared for their lives! and about Quran being taught in school no one should have any problem with it being taught at schools but the teachers should be strictly monitored by intel agencies and a committee should be formed to keep a check on what translations are being taught too (this country can't afford another generation of terrorists/extremists).

 

[Verve]

yes sir i agree with you on this one it's called broadening of horizon of thought it comes with age what is it? accumulation of experience in conjunction with knowledge and wisdom. what is it? ability to see the larger picture, bigger part of the collage.

As per Quran, that's reaching full growth/maturity ... and it is specifically said that this is at the age of 40.

 

[TankMan]

Good to see you are against blasphemy ,,,, Now for 295-c,,,, Dam you just missed the point, Tell me show me who got death plenty from courts since 1990,,,,, O please y you don't want to understand......
And reforms can be done but as soon as you remove the Law ,,, You will se the consequences...
Don't take it as justification of killing , but there are only 70 lives taken by people ..... in 27 years . You remove it and then match the figures .

Did you really think that being a Muslim and citing the Qu'ran I would be in favour of the act of blasphemy?

Like I said, no one wants to remove the law. Just amend it so it is in line with actual Islamic teachings.