قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[Verve]

Mate I still can't understand what you want on one hand you know only snakes are backing this law on other hand you don't want us liberal to say anything about it

You guys should be putting effort in the change of narrative. Have you not learnt any lessons from the Qadri incident that you are still using the same damn approach??? Same approach = same result! Is that so difficult to understand?

 

[TankMan]

Where is that narrative though? When we have political parties who don't want to promote this narrative because it may hurt their vote bank (such as PMLN, JUI-F, JI etc!), who will do this and when?

Look at what the lack of this narrative did in Qadri's case? Salman couldn't keep his gob shut and Qadri couldn't control his trigger finger! And this is what I keep saying to these liberals, without taking measured steps and in the absence of an effective narrative, changes will result in chaos and you will have even more loudmouths Salmans and killer Qadris!

We don't have proper leadership, that is true.

So far the positive things are that the KP system is working, investigating the murder, IK visited the victim's family, and many people have come out in support for Mashal. The intimidation factor is breaking up, and that is good.

But there is no proper mainstream political movement to reform the Blasphemy law. You are right in that. Until there is one, all we can do is oppose the current Blasphemy law in principle.

You guys should be putting effort in the change of narrative. Have you not learnt any lessons from the Qadri incident that you are still using the same damn approach??? Same approach = same result! Is that so difficult to understand?

What is wrong with the true narrative that this law goes against Islam?

 

[Hell hound]

You guys should be putting effort in the change of narrative. Have you not learnt any lessons from the Qadri incident that you are still using the same damn approach??? Same approach = same result! Is that so difficult to understand?

Okay lets hear you out bro what would you have us do?

 

[Divergent]

People celebrating Mumtaz Qadri as a hero are mental and brainwashed.

Someone once handed out food and I asked what its for, they said it was Mumtaz Qadri's death anniversary.

I refused to take it and was in complete shock for atleast 1 good hour because I couldn't absorb how backwards and dangerous ideologies are floating around. Even on here.

Extremism is killing this country and its citizens. Needs to be put on leash or complete shut down.

 

[TankMan]

That message clearly didn't get to the rulers ... is there justice in the society yet? If there was, a lot of the public wouldn't be studying in madrassah's being radicalised!

Our rulers are more worried about things like escaping the Panama verdict so they can continue with their corruption and building metro buses to get re-elected.

The current political system is flawed, certainly. I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum, or outside it for that matter, saying that Pakistan's government and system is perfectly fine.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Let me put it this way if we had no written traditions ie hadith we would still be offering salah performing hajj etc as we are performing/offering today without an iota of difference.

 

[Verve]

Okay lets hear you out bro what would you have us do?

If you look at the video of the Nauman Ali, that is exactly the narrative we need to promote.

But, alongside that, there needs to be a serious reform in education. Society is shaped by the education children receive, that's a given. Reforming the society should start with the children too. No two ways about it.

It is all well and good saying 'remove this and that', but to what exactly. Formulate the narrative. Truth and Love always wins, make that the central theme of it. Promote these.

You want to achieve an objective but where is the strategy to achieve it?

As per my limited understanding of Quran and Sunnah, yes there shouldn't be death penalty for blasphemy as Allah will punish and death is nothing in front of that punishment in hell. But saying that there needs to be a mechanism to mute these voices as it creates a mess in the society, that can be in the form of heavy fines and longer jail terms or even no return exile for repeat offenders.

 

[TankMan]

If you look at the video of the Nauman Ali, that is exactly the narrative we need to promote.

But, alongside that, there needs to be a serious reform in education. Society is shaped by the education children receive, that's a given. Reforming the society should start with the children too. No two ways about it.

It is all well and good saying 'remove this and that', but to what exactly. Formulate the narrative. Truth and Love always wins, make that the central theme of it. Promote these.

You want to achieve an objective but where is the strategy to achieve it?

As per my limited understanding of Quran and Sunnah, yes there shouldn't be death penalty for blasphemy as Allah will punish and death is nothing in front of that punishment in hell. But saying that there needs to be a mechanism to mute these voices as it creates a mess in the society, that can be in the form of heavy fines and longer jail terms or even no return exile for repeat offenders.

Agreed, that is exactly the narrative we already are promoting, if you read my previous posts, I have consistently argued that from an Islamic perspective killing people over blasphemy is wrong, and have mentioned the forgiveness and patience shown by the Holy Prophet s.a.w and his companions.

Nouman Ali Khan puts it much better than I can and he is certainly more qualified than me, but even he is labelled as 'this' or 'that' (insert label here) by the molvis seeking to discredit him.

As for reform in education, especially religious education, I agree with you. But your question from before - 'who will do it' - still stands.

So far, all we can do is support it in principle.

 

[Divergent]

If you look at the video of the Nauman Ali, that is exactly the narrative we need to promote.

But, alongside that, there needs to be a serious reform in education. Society is shaped by the education children receive, that's a given. Reforming the society should start with the children too. No two ways about it.

It is all well and good saying 'remove this and that', but to what exactly. Formulate the narrative. Truth and Love always wins, make that the central theme of it. Promote these.

You want to achieve an objective but where is the strategy to achieve it?

As per my limited understanding of Quran and Sunnah, yes there shouldn't be death penalty for blasphemy as Allah will punish and death is nothing in front of that punishment in hell. But saying that there needs to be a mechanism to mute these voices as it creates a mess in the society, that can be in the form of heavy fines and longer jail terms or even no return exile for repeat offenders.

Finally! Converted you and your point is noted.

 

[Verve]

What is wrong with the true narrative that this law goes against Islam?

Absolutely nothing wrong with it. But can these so called ulemas with vested financial interests and crave for power comply/agree so easily, whilst they are hand in hand with the mainstream parties? No!

Change needs to come from the top. Making a big ho-ha on forums and dawn like newspapers is only going to polarise the society further, making the task even harder to complete down the line.

People here need to understand that once a brain is hardwired, it takes a long time and a lot of effort for it to be rewired. Expecting to rewire a large section of society overnight or suddenly will cause mass confusion and dissaray and such people become easy prey for the enemy to exploit = chaos.

 

[Hell hound]

If you look at the video of the Nauman Ali, that is exactly the narrative we need to promote.

But, alongside that, there needs to be a serious reform in education. Society is shaped by the education children receive, that's a given. Reforming the society should start with the children too. No two ways about it.

It is all well and good saying 'remove this and that', but to what exactly. Formulate the narrative. Truth and Love always wins, make that the central theme of it. Promote these.

You want to achieve an objective but where is the strategy to achieve it?

As per my limited understanding of Quran and Sunnah, yes there shouldn't be death penalty for blasphemy as Allah will punish and death is nothing in front of that punishment in hell. But saying that there needs to be a mechanism to mute these voices as it creates a mess in the society, that can be in the form of heavy fines and longer jail terms or even no return exile for repeat offenders.

We all are on the same page bro I agree with you that we need to change our education system.but that is for future generation.what about this brain dead youth in 25 to 35 age group we need these guys to be tolerant too to become role model for our younger generation and for our country to prosper.we can't do the above presented reforms without their support

 

[Verve]

Finally! Converted you and your point is noted.

Jeez, I should be so honoured, right?

Jokes aside, you and your fellows who barge in every thread just screaming and shouting should calm down. The mullah's that you keep cursing, your name calling will not reform them, not one bit ... you are doing more damage and hardening their stance! Your soft approach and understanding and gradual molding (through a positive narrative) will!

This full frontal attack approach will not work. You need to reform your approach first of all.

 

[Hell hound]

Finally! Converted you and your point is noted.

Don't jinx it

 

[Verve]

We all are on the same page bro I agree with you that we need to change our education system.but that is for future generation.what about this brain dead youth in 25 to 35 age group we need these guys to be tolerant too to become role model for our younger generation and for our country to prosper.we can't do the above presented reforms without their support

Employment!! Financial security! Better lifestyle! Get them busy - idle mind is dangerous and can be easily manipulated - busy making a living!

It is very difficult to reform the poor - just remember that, and the age group you've stated has a criminal level of unemployment!

Again ... it all comes down to the rulers. Until we have these scumbags pocketing everything, you will not be able to reform the society. It is because of them that we have reached this stage.

 

[Divergent]

Jeez, I should be so honoured, right?

Jokes aside, you and your fellows who barge in every thread just screaming and shouting should calm down. The mullah's that you keep cursing, your name calling will not reform them, not one bit ... you are doing more damage and hardening their stance! Your soft approach and understanding and gradual molding (through a positive narrative) will!

This full frontal attack approach will not work. You need to reform your approach first of all.

Me and my team (I'll call it the A-Team) didn't barge nor resort to personal attacks. Your tone seems alot more calmer, someone must have said something for you to realise I'm 'Pakistani', as before I was an agent

We are calm. We carry points with valid backing.

Don't jinx it

LOL