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Putting the horse before the cart : Indian's fraud of history

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Putting the horse before the cart: What the discovery of 4,000-year-old ‘chariot’ in UP signifies

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The ASI find has revived the debate over whether horses existed in India before the coming of the Indo-European ‘Aryans’.

During an excavation in western Uttar Pradesh’s Baghpat district that has been on since March, the Archaeological Survey of India uncovered the remains of what have been called “chariots”. The find, which was announced on Monday, is said to date back to 2000 BC-1800 BC, although a final date will be available only after carbon dating. (Carbon dating determines how old a material is by measuring the rate of decay of a type of carbon known as carbon-14 within it.)

“The wheels rotated on a fixed axle linked by a draft pole to the yoke of a pair of animals,” SK Manjul, head of the excavation, told India Today. “The axle was attached with a superstructure consisting of a platform protected by side-screens and a high dashboard.” Moreover, the wheels were solid, not spoked.

The find has generated a lot of excitement, for various reasons. For one, the media has associated the vehicle with the Hindu epics. “The three chariots found in the burial pits could remind one of the familiar images of horse-drawn carriages from mythological television shows,” wrote India Today. The website of the Hindi television channel Aaj Tak was more explicit: “Baghpat is one of the five villages demanded by the Pandavas. As a result, these finds are being connected to the Mahabharat age.” This points to a trend, present even in formal Indian archaeology, of treating religious epics as literal history.

The other strand the find has dug up is the theory of Indo-European migration into the Indian subcontinent (also called the Aryan migration or Aryan invasion theory). On Tuesday, “True Indology”, a popular Right-Wing Twitter handle, suggested the “path-breaking” discovery “fundamentally changes long held perceptions about ancient India”. It explained: “The mainstream historians long held that chariots were introduced into India from central Asia. The chariot has been excavated from Sanauli which is in heartland of Kurukshetra.”

Another Right-Wing columnist called it a “decisive blow to the Aryan Invasion Theory”.

Importance of the chariot
The spoked-wheeled chariot is “fundamental to Aryan identification”, according to Edwin Bryant, an Indologist at Rutgers University in the United States. The Proto-Indo-European culture (often misnamed “Aryan” in popular culture) is closely identified with this vehicle known by the Proto-Indo-European word “rota” (from which the modern Hindi word “rath” is derived). Many academic theories identify the Proto-Indo-Europeans as branching out from a Central Asian homeland and streaming into the subcontinent around 1500 BC. Consistent with this theory is the fact that the chariot is not only prominent in Indo-European texts such as the Homeric hymns, it also plays a notable part in Vedic texts. In fact, the iconography of the chariot or rath is also present in modern Hinduism. Bharatiya Janata Party leader LK Advani undertook his high-profile cross-country rally in 1990 to demolish the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya and build a Ram temple in its place in a Toyata van decorated to look like a chariot. The rally itself was called a “rath yatra”, or chariot journey.

There is, however, a fundamental difference between the chariots of Indo-European history and the ones found in Sanauli – the type of wheel. The former is typified by a spoked wheel while the one found in Uttar Pradesh has a solid wheel with no spokes. Moreover, if carbon dating places this chariot after the accepted date of Indo-European migration, it would actually strengthen the Aryan migration theory, pointed out Vagheesh Narasimhan, a geneticist involved in Indo-European studies.

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Of chariots and horses
Even more fundamental than whether the chariot had spokes is the use of the term chariot itself. A chariot is necessarily defined as being pulled by horses and used for warfare or racing. A two-wheeled vehicle pulled by an animal (including but not limited to a horse) and used generally for carrying loads would be called a cart.

While the team that led the excavation has called the find a “chariot”, it has also expressed lack of clarity on the animal – bull or horse – that drew it. This, in turn, points to another facet of the debate around Aryan migration: is the horse indigenous to India?

In the Vedas, the horse is an incredibly important animal. Yet, the material culture – the seals, pottery and such – of the Indus Valley civilisation has simply no mention of the animal. “It has often been pointed out that the complete absence of the horse among the animals so prominently featured on the Indus seals is good evidence for the non-Aryan character of the Indus Civilisation,” writes Iravatham Mahadevan, an expert on the Indus script. As a result, the Out-of-India school – which postulates Indo-European migration from, not to, India – has often focussed on finding evidence of horses in the Indus Valley civilisation.

A desperate attempt
In 1999, NS Rajaraman, an American researcher of Indian origin, claimed to have discovered widespread evidence of horses in Harappa, even pointing to the existence of a horse seal. But Micheal Witzel, an Indologist from Harvard University in the United States, proved the seal was a hoax created with the use of digital graphics. In 2015, Rajaraman’s frequent co-author, David Frawley, was awarded the Padma Bhushan, India’s third highest civilian award, by the Narendra Modi government.

Apart from material culture, archaeologists have also tried to look for physical horse bones at Indus Valley civilisation sites. In 1974, an Archaeological Survey of India excavation in Surkotada, Gujarat, led by JP Joshi and AK Sharma unearthed what they claimed were horse bones dating from 2100-1700BC – which meant that they pre-dated any Indo-European migration into India. These claims were widely disbelieved with Richard Meadow, a specialist in zooarchaeology at Harvard University, arguing that “the ‘horse’ of Surkotada… is likewise almost certainly a half-***, albeit a large one”.

Two decades after the discovery, however, Hungarian archaeologist Sandor Bokonyi claimed the bones were indeed those of a horse. Meadow challenged Bokonyi but before anything further could be said, the latter died.

High horse
Advocates of the Aryan migration theory, however, argue that Bokonyi’s opinion made little difference to the fact that there is a mismatch between the exalted status of the horse in Vedic civilisation and its absence in Harappan sites. Bokonyi himself said the horse was not native to India but “reached the Indian subcontinent in an already domesticated form coming from the Inner Asiatic horse domestication centers”.

Witzel writes:

“Even if this [the Surkotada horse] were indeed the only archaeologically and palaeontologically secure Indus horse available so far, it would not turn the Indus Civilisation into one teeming with horses [as the Rigveda indeed is, a few hundred years later]. A tiger skeleton in the Roman Colosseum does not make this Asian predator a natural inhabitant of Italy.”

There is strong academic consensus that the horse was brought to India – which, of course, challenges any theory of Indo-Europeans being indigenous to India. However, in India, modern politics around Hindutva has meant that the theory of Indo-European migration is widely contested. The director of the Sanauli excavation did not only label the vehicle a chariot but also claimed that “evidence of horses, including fossils of teeth, have been found at other Harappan sites”.

https://scroll.in/article/882188/pu...very-of-4000-year-old-chariot-in-up-signifies

Indians had been trying, albeit fraudulently to link the history of IVC and other historical finds to prove their vedic history and famous folklore in their history.



 
Wow. Everything originated in Hindustan - who would have guessed it huh? Excuse the rest of us for daring to acknowledge decades of academia.

Good thing Galileo wasn't born around here.
Academia by who? Most of your academia doesn't even take any effort to preserve archeological sites in Pakistan. You need westerners to excavate your regions for archeological evidence. It is not our fault Pakistanis don't take much interest in Archeology, that's why your sites are decaying.

Indians had been trying, albeit fraudulently to link the history of IVC and other historical finds to prove their vedic history and famous folklore in their history.
Please read your own article, nobody is stealing anything. You never know what the original truth is until new evidence comes up and archeology is constantly evolving, all the historical facts on IVC are based on Archeological evidence that is found, it may or may not be definitive.
 
Everything originated in Hindustan
I will not deny it.!
1)BS originated from India.
2)UFOs came from India.
3)TEJAS first flew 4000 years ago.
4)Atlantis was found in India.
5)Inter Galactic travel started in India.
6)MODI was mentioned in Maha Bharata.
7) Homo Sapiens originated in India from Ramapethicus.
8)Alexander was actually an Indian.
9)NOAHs ark was made in India.
10)Indians built the Great Wall of China.

How can we not accept the contributions of India to the world!!
 
Academia by who? Most of your academia doesn't even take any effort to preserve archeological sites in Pakistan. You need westerners to excavate your regions for archeological evidence. It is not our fault Pakistanis don't take much interest in Archeology, that's why your sites are decaying.


Please read your own article, nobody is stealing anything. You never know what the original truth is until new evidence comes up and archeology is constantly evolving, all the historical facts on IVC are based on Archeological evidence that is found, it may or may not be definitive.

I think you missed the point completely.
I have created two threads. In the first one I provided evidence how Rajaraman and his co-conspirators Indians tried to change the Bull seal from IVC to a horse through computer graphics. That my friend is wholesale fraud and dishonesty of the highest order.

So, why you think the Indians are so desperate to place the horses in the Sub-Continents thousands of years before they were migrated to the sub-continent!!
Only one reason and one reason alone.

To prove that the Chariots drive by your "gods" in your far fetched religious stories could be justified and made the part of the proven history.
 
I think you missed the point completely.
I have created two threads. In the first one I provided evidence how Rajaraman and his co-conspirators Indians tried to change the Bull seal from IVC to a horse through computer graphics. That my friend is wholesale fraud and dishonesty of the highest order.

So, why you think the Indians are so desperate to place the horses in the Sub-Continents thousands of years before they were migrated to the sub-continent!!
Only one reason and one reason alone.

To prove that the Chariots drive by your "gods" in your far fetched religious stories could be justified and made the part of the proven history.
Do you mean a mythical symbol that nobody could figure out what exactly it is? The seal represents a single-horned bull with the presumption that horses never existed at the time. Even if they tried to find an alternative theory, there is nothing wrong with it. Debate, discuss that's how it is.

Desperate? We are simply following the evidence found in the region, we have been excavating regions for decades now. We added Rakhigarhi sites to the IVC after excavations. Besides, you do realize most of our "stories" of gods are the only link that fills the gap for more than 1500 years of history since IVC until Buddha.

You don't understand the caliber or sophistication of ASI, we are restoring archeological sites in and around India, including many east Asian countries. What have you achieved? Apart from a few easy rock carving restorations (which was defaced by the way). You should be the last one to diss anything that ASI has done or been doing.
 
Indians had been trying, albeit fraudulently to link the history of IVC and other historical finds to prove their vedic history and famous folklore in their history.

You need to clean up your language.

Not Indians as a whole, but a set of regressives who are trying to re-write history. That includes their western hangers on, like Frawley, who has advanced degrees in acupuncture, and no background or track record in history or in anthropology. His getting a decoration from the Modi government speaks volumes both about the Modi government and about him.

It is sad to see that your hatred runs so deep.

Wow. Everything originated in Hindustan - who would have guessed it huh? Excuse the rest of us for daring to acknowledge decades of academia.

Good thing Galileo wasn't born around here.

Once again the usual gibberish.

We cannot be held responsible for the private writings and the speculations of these revisionists, who started with Rajaram, and continue through Shrikant Talageri, with useful assistance from David Frawley and from an Islamophobic bigot from Belgium.
 
You need to clean up your language.

Not Indians as a whole, but a set of regressives who are trying to re-write history. That includes their western hangers on, like Frawley, who has advanced degrees in acupuncture, and no background or track record in history or in anthropology. His getting a decoration from the Modi government speaks volumes both about the Modi government and about him.

It is sad to see that your hatred runs so deep.

More than one Indian, are Indians. End of discussion.
 
More than one Indian, are Indians. End of discussion.

End of rational thought.

Since when did you breed a school of history, or of archaeology, or of anything related to ancient times, with the single, towering example of Dani?

What impertinence to brush all Indians with the same brush as revisionist historians.
 
Do you mean a mythical symbol that nobody could figure out what exactly it is? The seal represents a single-horned bull with the presumption that horses never existed at the time. Even if they tried to find an alternative theory, there is nothing wrong with it. Debate, discuss that's how it is.

Desperate? We are simply following the evidence found in the region, we have been excavating regions for decades now. We added Rakhigarhi sites to the IVC after excavations. Besides, you do realize most of our "stories" of gods are the only link that fills the gap for more than 1500 years of history since IVC until Buddha.

You don't understand the caliber or sophistication of ASI, we are restoring archeological sites in and around India, including many east Asian countries. What have you achieved? Apart from a few easy rock carving restorations (which was defaced by the way). You should be the last one to diss anything that ASI has done or been doing.

Sometime I struggle to understand Indian's thinking and their reasoning, despite my best efforts and sincerity to understand fellow human beings.
First you say "mythical symbol" that nobody could figure out what exactly it is. Then you yourself stated " the seal represent a single-horned bull with the presumption that horses never existed at the time.".

You admitted the seal is of a bull. So why Rajaraman and Co were hell bound to turn it in to a horse through computer simulation!!

And why the hell you are trying to portray that bull seal could be anything else!!
And that absence of evidence of horses in the sub-continent at the time of your tales is an evidence of their existence!!
Ridicules Indians.
 
I think you missed the point completely.
I have created two threads. In the first one I provided evidence how Rajaraman and his co-conspirators Indians tried to change the Bull seal from IVC to a horse through computer graphics. That my friend is wholesale fraud and dishonesty of the highest order.

You might start by getting a leash on the details. It is 'Rajaram', not 'Rajaraman'. There are other experts named 'Rajaraman' who have nothing to do with this forgery.

So, why you think the Indians are so desperate to place the horses in the Sub-Continents thousands of years before they were migrated to the sub-continent!!
Only one reason and one reason alone.

To prove that the Chariots drive by your "gods" in your far fetched religious stories could be justified and made the part of the proven history.

No. I wish ignorance were bliss in this case, but you seem to be a deeply troubled character.

The desire to show the horse was here earlier than it was is to disprove that the Indo-Aryan speaking nomads introduced it here, and to disprove that the chariot was an imported artifact. The attempt is to show that the chariot was invented here, since the horse was also to be found thousands of years before the spread of the chariot, and that it was then adopted, progressively, by others outside south Asia.

These efforts at proving that everything, including Indo-European languages, originated in India are part of the revisionist school, who are also described, in contrast to the AIT school, as the OOI school - the Out Of India school.

In spite of constant rebuffs by academicians, they persist.

It's not gibberish. It's irony with a hint of exaggeration, used to demonstrate a valid point. That you felt obliged to respond demonstrates its effectiveness.

I feel obliged to respond because of the volume of rubbish floating around. Just as happened with the Sanghis, as they have started believing their own crap, it is likely to happen to you and your types; unless contradicted then and there, you are likely to believe your own stuff.

Believe me, it is no pleasure to respond. I do it as an unpleasant duty.
 
End of rational thought.

Since when did you breed a school of history, or of archaeology, or of anything related to ancient times, with the single, towering example of Dani?

What impertinence to brush all Indians with the same brush as revisionist historians.

Yeah, I know, I know, to create false and fraudulent evidence is rational and anything else is end of rational thought. Great, just great.

Indian thinking start and ends on their false sense of grandeur and superiority.
 
It's dumb RSS aligned folks who try to distort history at every chance they get. History/historians were sane for the most part.
 
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