Putin appears preparing to attack Saudi Arabia and Qatar next, Illarionov says

[!eon]

Really?

Now, it's epic.
They say, hate has no cure

 

[zebra7]

If Russia does attack Saudi Arabia. There will be a backlash from 1.5 billion Muslims concerned with protecting Holy cities Mecca and Medina. Russia is powerful but not enough to take on Turkey, Pakistan, Egypt and other Arab countries with strong air forces. USA and Europe will intervene. And Russia well face Muslim insurrection inside ITE territories.
It would take a mad man to do it. Now is Putin a mad man?

Russia/Putin have full right and reason to take revenge according to the international law to defend her country. And attacking doesen't mean to attack KSA, and only involved the covert operation, to teach the one responsible and invloved in the bomb attack.

And for your speech, if there is no USA and other international community involvement, Russia can defeat the whole lobby that you quoted. TADA.

 

[batmannow]

Illarionov offers additional arguments that Putin is planning to attack Saudi Arabia

The aftermath of air strikes by a Russian plane in Tabliseh, Syria, on 30 September 2015 YouTube (Image: independent.co.uk)

2015/11/20 • ANALYSIS & OPINION, MILITARY ANALYSIS, RUSSIA

Yesterday, Andrey Illarionov laid out the logic behind his suggestion that Vladimir Putin is preparing to attack Saudi Arabia in order to destabilize and possibly dismember it.



Andrey Illarionov, Russian economist and former economic policy advisor to the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Currently, a senior fellow in the Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity at the Cato Institute in Washington, DC

Not surprisingly, that suggestion precisely because it would involve an action few have thought possible immediately sparked a vociferous reaction in Moscow and elsewhere. And so today, the Moscow analyst provides additional arguments on behalf of his conclusion.

As he did yesterday and has done before, Illarionov lays out his argument point by point. In this case, he offers 10 additional detailed discussions that he says force the conclusion that Putin’s new war “will be directed not only and not so much against ISIS” as “against Saudi Arabia” with the goals being its “destabilization and–it can’t be excluded–its dismemberment.”

1. “In the course of the historic session of the ‘force politburo’ of the Russian Federation November 16-17,” Russia’s FSB secret police chief Aleksandr Bortnikov focused on the origins of the explosives that blew up the plane over Sinai rather than on who carried out the attack, thus at a minimum confusing the issue concerning who was responsible by “intensifying suspicions that arose earlier” about that.
2. Bortnikov also stressed that the bomb itself was “self-acting” rather than the work of a suicide bomber, a conclusion of course supported by ISIS claims earlier the same day and one that again has the effect of spreading the blame for the bombing beyond Islamic State activists. The FSB chief insisted that Russian experts had established this independently.
3. Popular business magazine “Kommersant” carried a story suggesting parallels betweenthe 1999 bombings and the downing of the plane, a potentially dangerous one for the Kremlin if people conclude that it might have been behind both but useful to Putin because the Russian security experts the paper cited mentioned “nameless ‘people from the North Caucasus’” as being to blame once again. And these “experts” recalled “the names of those who ‘prepared those who carried out the terrorist acts’ –‘Khattab and his right-hand Abu al-Walid.’” And what “a surprise!” Illarionov says. “Both of the named individuals as is well known were from Saudi Arabia.”
4. “The appearance in Russian anti-terrorist discourse of Saudi Arabia and the absence in Putin’s commentaries… of any reference to ISIS hardly can be considered accidental,” the analyst continues. The Kremlin leader talked about unnamed “criminals” rather than being more specific even in terms of suspicions, a marked contrast to analysts in the West who have pointed to ISIS as behind this attack.
5. Despite not naming anyone, Putin nonetheless promised to take the harshest measures immediately to “find and punish the criminals.” “In other words,” Illarionov says, “Putin declared that there will be conducted extra-judicial reprisals over unknown persons without offering any evidence of their guilt or even their connection with the catastrophe of the Russian jet.” And he added that these reprisals will be carried out “with the help ‘of people who share our moral values.” Given what happened after 1999, one can only imagine what that means.
6. Putin announced that Moscow would step up its air raids in Syria without presenting any “cause and effect link” between those in Syria and the airplane disaster. Russian commentators and many Western ones have accepted his logic without any questions about his failure to provide a link or to follow “the basic principles of the Western legal tradition – the presumption of innocence, the need to present evidence of their guilt to the accused, court hearings… [and] the right of the accused to a defense.”
7. In this way and by attacking people before identifying them as guilty, “Putin in a completely Freudian way demonstrated not only the lack of evidence of their guilt … but the absence of any desire to find it.”
8. “Despite such a demonstrative violation by the Russian authorities of the basic principles of Western (and now all-human) legal tradition, the expansion of the Kremlin’s use of force won the approval from the side of the current American president: ‘Barak Obama declared that he has always supported the struggle of Russia against… ISIS.’”
9. All of this, Illarionov points out, follows what has become “the Putin model of unleashing large (open and not hybrid) wars (the second Chechen and the Russian-Georgian).” First, provocations, then terrorist acts, then the loss of innocent life, then finding one’s opponents guilty without evidence, loud promises to destroy them, the physical destruction of the opponents Putin has identified, and then “an essential change in the domestic or geopolitical situation.”
10. “Nevertheless, the war of 2015 in comparison with the former large wars of 1999 and 2008 is different in certain key ways.” It is conducted far beyond Russia’s borders. Unlike the earlier conflicts, “the beginning of the third war is openly supported by the West and the Obama Administration is ready to greet it with ovations.” And the new war is directed at a country Moscow has long blamed for supporting terrorist actions against Russia, Saudi Arabia.

“In large measure,” Illarionov says, “this is not a new war but a continuation directed at the defeat” of an enemy Putin has long had in his mind. And that enemy is Saudi Arabia. If Putin does attack and succeeds in defeating or even dismembering that country, he will achieve “the radical reordering of the entire contemporary world as we have known it.”

Super prapoganda by CIA ?
CANT SEE PUTIN CLEARING THE MESS CREATED BY CIA , IN THE NAME OF ISIS ?

 

[Slayer786]

Russia/Putin have full right and reason to take revenge according to the international law to defend her country. And attacking doesen't mean to attack KSA, and only involved the covert operation, to teach the one responsible and invloved in the bomb attack.

And for your speech, if there is no USA and other international community involvement, Russia can defeat the whole lobby that you quoted. TADA.

OK so Russia has the right to attack. But will not attack Saudi Arabia. But wasn't that the topic about. Putin planning to attack Saudis.
Also, why should we assume that USA and Europe will not get involved if an attack takes place. Did Obama and Cameron indicated this to Putin and you were there to witness it.
And Russia is not USA that it can fight the whole Muslim world. Not only will officially 52 officially OIC countries but Muslims in all countries will rise up. Russia knows it.
So let's stop assuming here.

 

[Husnainshah]

I will personally donate as much as $10,000 to Russian Government and employ at least 1 Russian. Russia doesn't necessarily has to destroy Saudi and Qatar; just a regime change would do followed by constitutional reforms controlling the flow of funds. Russia would be doing WORLD a favor.

 

[zebra7]

Super prapoganda by CIA ?
CANT SEE PUTIN CLEARING THE MESS CREATED BY CIA , IN THE NAME OF ISIS ?

If China and Russia gets involved in Syria seriously, than there would be no ISIS in no time.
US have been playing in Syria for long, and she had her own hidden Agenda, to remove Asaad from Power, that's why they can keep on playing Hide and Seek for Centuries with no outcome this way.

Don't know why US haven't learn that there is nothing white terrorist and black terrorist. Terrorism is terrorism, and should have zero tolerance. Giving other party weapons against ISIS would only create another ISIS.

 

[mourning sage]

This is crap. The West can only hope that the Russians would commit such a mistake. A smart move nonetheless, by publishing statements like these and that too by the once close aid of Putin, US has made a class move. The insecurity created may very well put in motion a chain of events which would otherwise never occur. A single blunder from either side will lead the World towards another war. and this time around Pakistan again would be directly involved because no one leaves unscathed if they raise an eyebrow towards KSA.

 

[Echo_419]

Illarionov offers additional arguments that Putin is planning to attack Saudi Arabia

The aftermath of air strikes by a Russian plane in Tabliseh, Syria, on 30 September 2015 YouTube (Image: independent.co.uk)

2015/11/20 • ANALYSIS & OPINION, MILITARY ANALYSIS, RUSSIA

Yesterday, Andrey Illarionov laid out the logic behind his suggestion that Vladimir Putin is preparing to attack Saudi Arabia in order to destabilize and possibly dismember it.



Andrey Illarionov, Russian economist and former economic policy advisor to the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Currently, a senior fellow in the Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity at the Cato Institute in Washington, DC

Not surprisingly, that suggestion precisely because it would involve an action few have thought possible immediately sparked a vociferous reaction in Moscow and elsewhere. And so today, the Moscow analyst provides additional arguments on behalf of his conclusion.

As he did yesterday and has done before, Illarionov lays out his argument point by point. In this case, he offers 10 additional detailed discussions that he says force the conclusion that Putin’s new war “will be directed not only and not so much against ISIS” as “against Saudi Arabia” with the goals being its “destabilization and–it can’t be excluded–its dismemberment.”

1. “In the course of the historic session of the ‘force politburo’ of the Russian Federation November 16-17,” Russia’s FSB secret police chief Aleksandr Bortnikov focused on the origins of the explosives that blew up the plane over Sinai rather than on who carried out the attack, thus at a minimum confusing the issue concerning who was responsible by “intensifying suspicions that arose earlier” about that.
2. Bortnikov also stressed that the bomb itself was “self-acting” rather than the work of a suicide bomber, a conclusion of course supported by ISIS claims earlier the same day and one that again has the effect of spreading the blame for the bombing beyond Islamic State activists. The FSB chief insisted that Russian experts had established this independently.
3. Popular business magazine “Kommersant” carried a story suggesting parallels betweenthe 1999 bombings and the downing of the plane, a potentially dangerous one for the Kremlin if people conclude that it might have been behind both but useful to Putin because the Russian security experts the paper cited mentioned “nameless ‘people from the North Caucasus’” as being to blame once again. And these “experts” recalled “the names of those who ‘prepared those who carried out the terrorist acts’ –‘Khattab and his right-hand Abu al-Walid.’” And what “a surprise!” Illarionov says. “Both of the named individuals as is well known were from Saudi Arabia.”
4. “The appearance in Russian anti-terrorist discourse of Saudi Arabia and the absence in Putin’s commentaries… of any reference to ISIS hardly can be considered accidental,” the analyst continues. The Kremlin leader talked about unnamed “criminals” rather than being more specific even in terms of suspicions, a marked contrast to analysts in the West who have pointed to ISIS as behind this attack.
5. Despite not naming anyone, Putin nonetheless promised to take the harshest measures immediately to “find and punish the criminals.” “In other words,” Illarionov says, “Putin declared that there will be conducted extra-judicial reprisals over unknown persons without offering any evidence of their guilt or even their connection with the catastrophe of the Russian jet.” And he added that these reprisals will be carried out “with the help ‘of people who share our moral values.” Given what happened after 1999, one can only imagine what that means.
6. Putin announced that Moscow would step up its air raids in Syria without presenting any “cause and effect link” between those in Syria and the airplane disaster. Russian commentators and many Western ones have accepted his logic without any questions about his failure to provide a link or to follow “the basic principles of the Western legal tradition – the presumption of innocence, the need to present evidence of their guilt to the accused, court hearings… [and] the right of the accused to a defense.”
7. In this way and by attacking people before identifying them as guilty, “Putin in a completely Freudian way demonstrated not only the lack of evidence of their guilt … but the absence of any desire to find it.”
8. “Despite such a demonstrative violation by the Russian authorities of the basic principles of Western (and now all-human) legal tradition, the expansion of the Kremlin’s use of force won the approval from the side of the current American president: ‘Barak Obama declared that he has always supported the struggle of Russia against… ISIS.’”
9. All of this, Illarionov points out, follows what has become “the Putin model of unleashing large (open and not hybrid) wars (the second Chechen and the Russian-Georgian).” First, provocations, then terrorist acts, then the loss of innocent life, then finding one’s opponents guilty without evidence, loud promises to destroy them, the physical destruction of the opponents Putin has identified, and then “an essential change in the domestic or geopolitical situation.”
10. “Nevertheless, the war of 2015 in comparison with the former large wars of 1999 and 2008 is different in certain key ways.” It is conducted far beyond Russia’s borders. Unlike the earlier conflicts, “the beginning of the third war is openly supported by the West and the Obama Administration is ready to greet it with ovations.” And the new war is directed at a country Moscow has long blamed for supporting terrorist actions against Russia, Saudi Arabia.

“In large measure,” Illarionov says, “this is not a new war but a continuation directed at the defeat” of an enemy Putin has long had in his mind. And that enemy is Saudi Arabia. If Putin does attack and succeeds in defeating or even dismembering that country, he will achieve “the radical reordering of the entire contemporary world as we have known it.”

This is what happens wjej you consume to much Vodka

 

[Audio]

Turkey would condemn in public, but secretly plot to retake the reins of Sunni world from KSA if this happened. No support from there.

Pakistan would not interfere officially, would be told not to by China, Russia. Volunteers perhaps, with similar zeal as the few that posted here.

----

In any case, this is all "pretty far out"......

 

[zebra7]

OK so Russia has the right to attack. But will not attack Saudi Arabia. But wasn't that the topic about. Putin planning to attack Saudis.
Also, why should we assume that USA and Europe will not get involved if an attack takes place. Did Obama and Cameron indicated this to Putin and you were there to witness it.
And Russia is not USA that it can fight the whole Muslim world. Not only will officially 52 officially OIC countries but Muslims in all countries will rise up. Russia knows it.
So let's stop assuming here.

Thats my assumption you can say that, but the covert operation like what Israel did to kill the one involved in Berlin Olympic bombing could not be declared, and its secret, because its lethality depends on the secrecy.

Russia is not USA and my answer was only to the reference to the member who quoted me, but do have the biggest Arsenal of the Nuclear Weapon, and their is not going to be a war between Russia and the Whole Muslim, so leave the topic here, if you want I can take my words back.

 

[Zarvan]

Putin appears preparing to attack Saudi Arabia and Qatar next, Illarionov says

This image from the Russian Defense Ministry shows a Russian Air Force bomb hitting a target in Syria. Khaled Khoja, head of the Syrian National Council opposition group, said at the UN that Russian air strikes killed dozens of civilians, with children among the dead. Photo: AP

2015/11/19 • ANALYSIS & OPINION, RUSSIA

Events of recent days may have obscured what is the most important development of all: Vladimir Putin appears to be preparing for a Russian military strike against Saudi Arabia and Qatar, a move that would dramatically worsen the situation in the Middle East and send oil prices soaring, according to Andrey Illarionov.



Andrey Illarionov, Russian economist and former economic policy advisor to the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Currently, a senior fellow in the Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity at the Cato Institute in Washington, DC (Image: Voice of America)

Heargues that Russia’s bombing of targets in Syria, Putin’s success at the G20, “the de facto paralysis of NATO,” Russia’s acquisition of France as an ally, US intelligence sharing with Russia, and proposals for restructuring of Ukraine’s debt distract the world’s attention from Moscow’s preparations for such attacks.

The Moscow analyst says that “the vigilance of the West has been weakened” by this series of events, thus opening the way for Moscow to carry out a strategic operation that it has been hoping to launch against “military, infrastructure and energy sites in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.”

As he typically does, Illarionov presents a careful listing of the evidence he has for his conclusion which if true would highlight some of the dangers involved of including Moscow in any alliance to fight international terrorism because such attacks would almost certainly provoke more of it.

Illarionov calls attention to 15 indicators or steps he suggests show that Putin is planning for such attacks:

1. Moscow knew that terrorist shot down the plane over Sinai “at a minimum on the third day after” it occurred.
2. But the Russian authorities did not announce that they knew until “after the conclusion of the G20 summit in Antalya in order to “avoid a practically inevitable discussion in that event of the nature of the possible Russian response to the terrorist action.”
3. However, “in order not to lose time,” Moscow announced that it was a terrorist act as soon as the Antalya summit was over.
4. The FSB immediately then put out details that it had not been prepared to release earlier.
5. Putin said that Russia would do whatever it took “to find and punish the criminals” regardless of when they acted or where they are now.
6. The Kremlin leader said that he had tasked all of Russia’s force structures to come up with a plan that would deal with all those involved.
7. Putin declared that Russia “will act in correspondence with Article 51 of the UN Charter which recognizes the right of states to self-defense,” thus cloaking himself in international law for a possible act on particular states.
8. Already at Antalya, Putin had said that it was necessary to strike at those who “finance terrorist activities,” a group of countries which include Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
9. The FSB announced in an unprecedented move that it was offering a 50 million US dollar reward to anyone who could provide evidence about the terrorist acts and these links, an amount certainly guaranteed to lead some to provide what they see as evidence of Saudi or Qatar complicity.
10. Such attacks would be unthinkable, of course, if the US acted in defense of those countries; but that is unlikely. On the one hand, the US is less dependent on oil from there than it was; and on the other, President Barack Obama, compared to his predecessors, is less willing to act in that way.
11. “The Kremlin’s conviction that the current US Administration is hardly likely to support Saudi Arabia has been essentially strengthened by the refusal of the US and the UK to support not only Saudi Arabia or Ukraine but even France, a member of NATO, in its assessment of the Paris terrorist actions as an act of war and consequently to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter.”
12. This refusal contrasts sharply with what happened after September 11, 2001, and prompted French President Francois Hollande to go to Moscow and seek an alliance with Putin.
13. “The vigilance of the West has been weakened as well by the changes at first glance of the Kremlin’s course,” including the bombing of ISIS targets in Syria and a more positive stance on restructuring Ukraine’s foreign debt, changes that have been amplified by “a massive propaganda campaign of the Kremlin and the Putinintern.”
14. Consequently, “in the near future, Saudi Arabia (and possibly Qatar) could be declared sponsors of international terrorism and thus one way or another involved in the deaths of hundreds of Russian citizens. Invoking Article 51 of the UN Charger, the Kremlin could carry out an operation of revenge.”
15. The consequences of such attacks on oil prices are obvious, and the refusal of the US and the UK to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter for the defense of France marks the de facto paralysis of this organization and in essence an open invitation to the carrying out of new aggression against its other members.”

Putin appears preparing to attack Saudi Arabia and Qatar next, Illarionov says -- EUROMAIDAN PRESSEuromaidan Press |

It's dream of some delusional fools but Putin is not that idiot

 

[Aramagedon]

It's dream of some delusional fools but Putin is not that idiot

Why you defend a savage regime?

 

[xyxmt]

Looks like Mr. Illarionov got his training at Indian Institute of Policy experts as his views are just as crazy as Indian experts.

 

[Slayer786]

Thats my assumption you can say that, but the covert operation like what Israel did to kill the one involved in Berlin Olympic bombing could not be declared, and its secret, because its lethality depends on the secrecy.

Russia is not USA and my answer was only to the reference to the member who quoted me, but do have the biggest Arsenal of the Nuclear Weapon, and their is not going to be a war between Russia and the Whole Muslim, so leave the topic here, if you want I can take my words back.

Isil have claimed responsibility to the downing of the Russian plane. Russia already had been bombing Isil. Lol. What covert operation. They already are bombing Isil targets. The Russian plane tragedy was the result of the attacks that Russia had begun earlier and Isil retaliated. This is called tit for tat my friend. No one will come out winners here. Just a lot of innocent will continue to die to satisfy egos.

 

[Zarvan]

Why you defend a savage regime?

I don't they have made blunders many times but removing them through power is stupidity and those who talk most against them are mostly far bigger criminals than Saudis.