Put pressure on India to talk to us-Pakistan

[deckingraj]

Tit for tat.

Sorry i don't agree...Let me say why...

If Indians are murdered, we need to hunt down the bastards that did it and make them sorry they were born. Preferably severe covert action, don't want to do anything that would give the PA any reasons to pull out from the western front.

You mean killing those terrorists who killed civilians in India or killing civilians the way they killed ours??? If former than i agree however

a) Do you think we have the capability to strike in Pakistan and kill terrorists as a covert operation?? Sir, its no joke in going someone's country and killing people...If we had do you think we would have waited to kill rats like Let or hizbul leaders??
b) If we cannot stop/kill those terrorists in India how can we be able to kill then in their den itself???
c) Lets say for the sake of argument we do have capacity...Can we eliminate those people altogether??? How can you scare people who are ready to blow themselves anytime??? and above all Will that make our citizens safe???

If later than i vehemently oppose...I don't think i need to give reasons for that....

We can't continue to sit idle and hope and pray that Pakistan will take action against terrorist groups operating on its soil. They have charged the 7 accused with 'disrupting trade'. If after that slap in the face, you think that 'talking' will work then you are living in a fantasy world.

If you read my post i am not saying talk to them now or sit idle...However fantacy land or no fantacy land i do not see any other way of solving the issue without talking to them...If we can achieve peace on China border then surely we can do the same on Pakistan border

South Asia needs peace but at the same time India needs to make it clear that it will take action against terrorists groups one way or the other. fir jo hoga so hoga.

The last bolded line is dangerous...Trust me my blood is red and have lots and lots of anger agasint terrorists attacks on India and her interests...However we cannot act juvenile...Otherwise we will loose all that we have achieved by hardwork and all that we want to achieve for our coming generations...

 

[Iggy]

Seiko my friend i understand your frustration....However issues as complex as Kashmir cannot be settled by frustrations....

I know issues like kashmir cannot be settled by frustrations..lets hope those who are leading this dont have much frustrations like I do..

Well to be blunt as many times as it needs to because like it or not the only way of solving the issue is on negotiating table...if 3 and half wars could not solve it then another one also cannot...A sarcastic comment would be yes the next war will solve it for good(by wiping off both the countries)..

Belive me I am not advocating any war..I am also enjoying the fruits of the devalopment of my country and I dont want to start it over from the beginning..but you forget to answer the important question whats the purpose of peace if our citizens are still dying from the hands of terrorists harbouring in our neighbouring country??

End result was we could not achieve what we wanted...Does that mean we should stop talking??? However as said before we do not have congenial environment for talks...Just see what people did after Sharma-Sheikh joint declaration...thus onus is on Pak to help creating that atmosphere...

Yes that what I am saying too take some actions against those who are behind the attacks..atleast they can put them in a tight leash if they wanted to ..Just look at the actions taken by the Bangaldesh against terrorists..I dont have to mention how much animosity was between Indian and Bangladeshi members here in this forum but after that incident suddenly the mood of members has changed and they started appreciating Bangladesh for their actions..Its a small example that how much mood of people can change if someone take credible actions

You are right...It is very hard to trust our neighbor...However the same can be said about people living on the other side of the border...Right or wrong reasons we both don't trust each other...So what is the way to move forward...We need to have a trust building mechanism....Trade is one of the option....IN fact i also pointed out the staggering trade between India and China even though we have border dispute with them...

Decki even if we dont trust each other, people on either side need peace..people are sick of the war..for one year not a single bullet has been fired in LoC before Mumbai incident..is it a small thing considering the animosity between the nations?and also remember Noor the baby girl who come to chennai for operation??she was the peace icon between our nation after the famous Bus trip.so many fund raising and prayers were oraganised for her in India.this means people can change their attitude against each other if government is willing to show us some positive sign..Its all our government is asking take some positive steps and then talk about peace

NO a responsible nation should not just wait...Neither are we.......As per me responsible nation is doing everything it can to put diplomatic pressure on Pakistan....After mumbai some changes can be seen in India as well from the security aparatus...However we can debate on pace at which work is going on...On contrary what else can you do???? Wage a war against them or do similar covert operations against them...both are counter productive....

Decki i meant about Pakistan when I talked about the responsible nation who is an Important member of WoT..sorry for my poor English ..Yes rather than a fruitless talk lets put pressure on Pakistan for taking credible action and also convince other countries to put pressure on Pakistan..Is it the same thing we are doing now.and we can see the results there like Indicting Laghvi and other members..so waiting does helps some times right??

Well i do see your point...However if we listen to our security advisors like Brijesh MIshra we will get to know that during Musharraf regime India and Pak came very close to solving Kashmir Issue...Unfortunately unstability creep into Pakistan politics and we could not put the final nail in the coffin......Secondly Kashmir is comparatively peaceful...Quite diplomacy is doing its work...Pakistan is dealing with its own frankestein...So all i will say is wait and watch

I am also telling the same thing lets wait and watch how much longer Pakistan can control the monster they created ..till then put pressure on Pakistan and convince other countries and ask them to put pressure on Pakistan..lets see how it works..Next time when we meet on peace table I want it to be productive not just another talk and happy days for 2-3 months then back to hair picking each other

 

[Vassnti]

Why is it anyone elses job to fix India's and Pakistans problems?

If two modern countires cannot manage to sit down and talk with out a he said she said argument breaking out , why the hell would any one want to get in the middle.

Pakistan wants talks, India says we will talk if you do xxx, simple do xxx and have your talks or accept that you dont really want talks and want to blame india for the problem.

 

[deckingraj]

I know issues like kashmir cannot be settled by frustrations..lets hope those who are leading this dont have much frustrations like I do..

I hope so...

Belive me I am not advocating any war..I am also enjoying the fruits of the devalopment of my country and I dont want to start it over from the beginning..but you forget to answer the important question whats the purpose of peace if our citizens are still dying from the hands of terrorists harbouring in our neighbouring country??

Hmm i see your point....Lets try it other way...Why do you think Pakistan is harbouring terrorist against India??? What is their aim..Is it just to kill indians?? is it to take avenge of 1971 partition??? or is it to force us to resolve Kashmir issue as per their demands??? To me its the third one...Once the issue is resolved for good i don't see any reason for continuing animosity....What do you think???

Yes that what I am saying too take some actions against those who are behind the attacks..atleast they can put them in a tight leash if they wanted to ..Just look at the actions taken by the Bangaldesh against terrorists..I dont have to mention how much animosity was between Indian and Bangladeshi members here in this forum but after that incident suddenly the mood of members has changed and they started appreciating Bangladesh for their actions..Its a small example that how much mood of people can change if someone take credible actions

You are right....However there is a difference between animosity between forum members vs Govt's...Last weekend i met a Pakistani person from Lahore and we talked amicably...today he is a friend...However if given a chance our govt. will not shy away from bombing the crap out of each other...

Decki even if we dont trust each other, people on either side need peace..people are sick of the war..for one year not a single bullet has been fired in LoC before Mumbai incident..is it a small thing considering the animosity between the nations?and also remember Noor the baby girl who come to chennai for operation??she was the peace icon between our nation after the famous Bus trip.so many fund raising and prayers were oraganised for her in India.this means people can change their attitude against each other if government is willing to show us some positive sign..Its all our government is asking take some positive steps and then talk about peace

That's exactly what i am saying as well..However this is one part of the story..The issues that you have with Pakistan Govt...similar issues an ordinary Pakistani have for us....I support your claims becuase i believe what you are saying is correct...However the other side may feel opposite...So now the question is how do you build trust and engagement is the only way....


D

ecki i meant about Pakistan when I talked about the responsible nation who is an Important member of WoT..sorry for my poor English ..Yes rather than a fruitless talk lets put pressure on Pakistan for taking credible action and also convince other countries to put pressure on Pakistan..Is it the same thing we are doing now.and we can see the results there like Indicting Laghvi and other members..so waiting does helps some times right??

Well to some extent you are right...However the bigger question is how much wait...if you see lot of intellectuals have started questioning the objectives of this diplomatic offense...We all know that ultimate way of solving if to start the dialogue process...The tricky part is how long shall we wait...

Next time when we meet on peace table I want it to be productive not just another talk and happy days for 2-3 months then back to hair picking each other

Well it is going to be many talks before we can have anything close to be productive...However i agree with your hair picking part...

 

[vsdoc]

It is naive to say that as people Indians and pakistanis have nothing against each other, and the age old animosity is only because of our leaders.

Please understand that the leaders of a nation, elected or otherwise, represent their people, their culture, their nation, their ideologies, their politics, their insecurities, their identity as a people.

People also get the leaders they deserve.

So while I would love to play a gracious host to any Pakistani visiting my country ..... legally and peacefully of course ..... I have no illusions about what my country needs to do with regard to our neighbour.

Enough talk .... lets see some action first.

Cheers, Doc

 

[TaimiKhan]

Personally, there is no need for any kind of talks with India in present circumstances. Don't understand what is the urgency in these politicians to talk to India. They don't wish to talk, fine, why should be be doing that.

Still they don't understand what the real motive of India or may be they know the real motive and countering the Indian propaganda drive just as when their PM & other politicians before going to US go on a vilifying drive against Pakistan just to get some favors from US.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

Personally, there is no need for any kind of talks with India in present circumstances. Don't understand what is the urgency in these politicians to talk to India. They don't wish to talk, fine, why should be be doing that.

Still they don't understand what the real motive of India or may be they know the real motive and countering the Indian propaganda drive just as when their PM & other politicians before going to US go on a vilifying drive against Pakistan just to get some favors from US.

 

[BlackenTheSky]

Finish 26/11 trials first on both sides, only then can talks be fruitful. A few months would not hurt either way.

Even we are not interesting in talks unless you will stop interfaring in balochistan

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Atleast people living in North America should watch CNN/HBO report on Mumbai Terror shown on CNN today and tomorrow at 8 PM EST.

After watching the cruelty done on Indians, I cannot see why Indians should bother talking with Pakistan. What is the point? Indian govt does not have a spine and it is abused every year with attacks.

The main problem is that ppl in india think that the Mumbai were orchestrated by Pakistan , which is where the main issue lies - Media in India , starts to blow the trumpet , again - specially knowing at that time Pakistan was very busy fighting a war vs Talibans so in that time, Indian media was blaming every thing on Pakitan

When our leaders went to india with sincere notions look lets do a joint investigation all they got were statements by Indian military leaders of war etc of course why would they want to resolve Kashmir? If Kashmir issue is resolved Indian Army will not get billions in funding from Indian gov ...

We in Pakistan , never supported such acts, and we frankly have no interest in seeing a old symbol of British East Indian company head quarters pre , freedom era being destroyed ...

a) Who sponsored these elements is debatable
as Indian Army was being investigated , and the main person
who was killed in the process was the same investigator
who was investigating army

b) Pakistan does not have AWACS to track small boats

I hope I answered your questions , yes I did watched the Mumbai attack show , Fareed Zakaria showed his true colors no wonder he is in CNN ^_^


FACT : Terrorist have no nationality they have independent agendas
And for ppl of both nations to stop peace process and start
new arms race is synical and the only out come will be a future
war -

Perhaps Pakistan should use the Mumbai attacks as , proof that it needs a aircraft carrier to protect its sea shores and AWACS ... its good for both india and Pakistan

 

[vsdoc]

Still just for the sake of debate - what is there to talk about?

Kashmir and Balochistan?

If we send our people into your country to do harm, it is your right to kill them.

And vice versa. Am sure both countries are agreed on that.

What does that leave?

Trade and business and cultural and sporting exchanges?

Those will resume depending on the political climate post Pakistan's delivery on 26/11.

Afghanistan? That is none of your business and you should do what you have to do, while we do likewise.

So what does your side so desperately want to "talk" about?

Talk less, do more.

Cheers, Doc

 

[ssheppard]

No dialogue with India unfortunate: Pakistan

"It is unfortunate that India and Pakistan are at a stage where there is no dialogue," Malik said at a book launch function here Tuesday evening.

"We have made repeated requests for dialogue and Pakistan is awaiting a response," the envoy said.
Recalling the controversial Sharm-el Sheikh joint statement signed in July this year between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani, Malik said the two leaders had agreed that dialogue was the only way to move forward.

"We hope that the July statement will be acted upon soon," he said.
The relationship between the two countries was frozen after last year's Mumbai terrorist attack, which India blamed on Pakistan-based terror outfits.

India has been asking Pakistan to bring the perpetrators of the 26/11 attacks to justice before restoring the dialogue process.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/...a, pakistan, LeT, 26/11, mumbai, shahid malik

 

[TaimiKhan]

Still just for the sake of debate - what is there to talk about?

Kashmir and Balochistan?

If we send our people into your country to do harm, it is your right to kill them.

And vice versa. Am sure both countries are agreed on that.

What does that leave?

Trade and business and cultural and sporting exchanges?

Those will resume depending on the political climate post Pakistan's delivery on 26/11.

Afghanistan? That is none of your business and you should do what you have to do, while we do likewise.

So what does your side so desperately want to "talk" about?

Talk less, do more.

Cheers, Doc

There is nothing to talk about Sir, Pakistan should and will take care of Balochistan itself, it knows how to handle such people who are traitors.

As for Kashmir, no need to talk, same old policy should be started once again by Pakistan. Best method other then diplomacy as there is no solution to this issue through diplomacy.

No need for any cultural exchanges, we have our own culture, no need to learn about the Indian one.

No need for any kind of sports, making money on this hatred is not the best way.

And as for Afghanistan, let us take care of this Allied & India supported TTP menace first, then will take care of the Indian menace in Afghanistan also. Non of Indian business too, whatever we want to do should be done.

Same for India, do more then talking everywhere and trying to become the sorry arse, Indian politicians and especially its PM should talk less rather then playing the terrorism card everywhere especially before going to US.

 

[bones20]

Just one alive ..and captured ....is doing wonders..against Pakistan....he has made entire Pakistan a culprit in front of world community.

THink what could have been possible had all of them would have been captured alive..

That would have highlighted that Pakistan is the biggest ally in the War on terror.

 

[vsdoc]

When there is a unilateral breakdown in communication, with one side desperate to resume dialogue, there can be only two reasons, when both are sovereign nations:

1) You want something from the other.

2) You are scared.

In my humble opinion, India is neither .....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Creder]

Don't get excited and abusive kiddo, and please take your frustrations and feelings of impotence elsewhere.

Cheers, Doc

how about you show some balls and actually reply to the argument ? according to you do more talk less...then why do you guys whine more and do less ?

 

[SMC]

Still just for the sake of debate - what is there to talk about?

Kashmir and Balochistan?

If we send our people into your country to do harm, it is your right to kill them.

And vice versa. Am sure both countries are agreed on that.

Same logic can be applied to india then?

Afghanistan? That is none of your business and you should do what you have to do, while we do likewise.

It does become our business when you use Afghanistan to plan and fund mass terrorism in Pakistan.