Put pressure on India to talk to us-Pakistan

[haawk]

I dont know whats the obsession of our Government to talk to India, why the hell are they showing themselves as weak. If the Indians dont want to talk to us, FINE. Its not like the Indians have any leverage on us, they very well know that they cannot make Pakistan do anything and if they dont want to talk than GOP should Shut Up.

the idea is simple...as of now the pressure is on GOP to conduct proper trial of mumbai PERPETRATORS. as long as the indian govt does not come for talks the pressure on pak by the intnl communtity is bound to exist.....so india will not come in for talks so that the world keeps pressurising the pak govt to finish proper trials of mumbai perpetators-as this is he only means by which the international community can ensure that the tensions in the subcontinent pacify. if the indian govt comes down for talks the pressure on pak vanishes as this would indicate to the world that india has been pacified of its anger over mumbai. so pak can keep delaying the mumbai trial or even forget about it till something again happens in india by the actions of its nationals .

SO THE MESSAGE FROM INDIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR ...PUNISH THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR MUMBAI ATTACKS AND THEN COME FOR TALKS...WE ARE FED UP OF FALSE PROMISES PAKISTAN EVERYTIME AN ACT OF TERROR TAKES PLACE IN INDIA BY SOME OF THE ORGANIZATIONS RUN BY ITS NATIONAL IN ITS SOIL.

REST ASSURED THAT INDIANS WILL NEVER FORGET THE MUMBAI CARNAGE......NO MATTER WHAT ........SO DO WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED AND THEN COME FOR TALKS


BY THE HOW WILL THE INTL COMMUNITY PRESSURISE INDIA...WHAT CAN IT SAY WHEN INDIA ASKS BACK IF JUSTICE HAS BEEN DELIVERED FOR THE LOSS OF INNOCENT LIVES OF ITS CITIZENS?

 

[jupiter2007]

Atleast people living in North America should watch CNN/HBO report on Mumbai Terror shown on CNN today and tomorrow at 8 PM EST.

After watching the cruelty done on Indians, I cannot see why Indians should bother talking with Pakistan. What is the point? Indian govt does not have a spine and it is abused every year with attacks.

Indian comedy drama is going to end soon!

 

[Novice09]

Does being a bigger person mean...the smaller one has right to hurt time and again..... I think Indian government should ask families of the people who died in Mumbai....if there should be any talk.....Its Indians who decide when India talks to Pakistan...and no one else.....

Its not just about Mumbai, they betrayed us whenever we started the talk process:

- Lahore Declaration:

In late 1998 and early 1999, Vajpayee began a push for a full-scale diplomatic peace process with Pakistan. Vajpayee initiated a new peace process aimed towards permanently resolving the Kashmir dispute and other territorial/nuclear/strategic conflicts with Pakistan. The resultant Lahore Declaration espoused a commitment to dialogue, expanded trade relations and the goal of denuclearized South Asia, and mutual friendship. This eased the tension created by the 1998 nuclear tests, not only within the two nations, but also in South Asia and the rest of the world.

Result

More importantly and soon after, it was revealed that millitants and non-uniformed Pakistani soldiers (many with official identifications and Pakistan Army's custom weaponry) had infiltrated into the Kashmir Valley and captured control of border hilltops, unmanned border posts and were spreading out fast. The incursion was centered around the town of Kargil, but also included the Batalik and Akhnoor sectors and include artillery exchanges at the Siachen Glacier.

Indian army units were rushed into Kashmir in response. Operation Vijay (1999), launched in June 1999, saw the Indian military fighting thousands of militants and soldiers amidst heavy artillery shelling and while facing extremely cold weather, snow and treacherous terrain at the high altitude. Over 500 Indian soldiers were killed in the three-month long Kargil War


- Agra summit:

The Agra summit was a two-day summit held on July 15th and 16th, 2001 between Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee. It was organized with the aim to resolve long-standing issues between India and Pakistan.

The two sides remained inflexible on the core issue of Kashmir, despite five long and arduous one-to-one rounds between the two leaders and hours of discussion between the two delegations. Despite the failure of the talks, General Pervez Musharraf joined Vajpayee to call on the two countries to bury their past. He also invited the Indian Prime Minister to visit Pakistan as he felt that the issues between Pakistan and India were much more complicated and could not be resolved in a short time.

Result

On 13 December 2001, five gunmen infiltrated the Parliament House in a car with Home Ministry and Parliament labels. While both the Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha had been adjourned forty minutes prior to the incident, many Members of Parliament (MPs) and government officials such as Home Minister LK Advani and Minister of State (Defence) Harin Pathak were believed to have still been in the building at the time of the attack. (Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Opposition Leader Sonia Gandhi had already left). The gunmen slammed their vehicle into the car of the Indian Vice President Krishan Kant (who was in the building at the time), got out, and began firing their weapons. The Vice President's guards and security personnel shot back at the terrorists and then started closing the gates of the compound. The lady constable Kamlesh Kumari was first to spot the terrorist squad. One gunman, wearing a suicide vest, was shot dead, the vest exploding. The other four gunmen were also killed. Five policemen, a Parliament security guard, and a gardener were killed, and 18 others were injured. [6] No members of the government were hurt.

 

[Novice09]

You have proven only one was pakistani not the other 9, no one knows how many out of the 9 were from india. Such an attack does not happen without inside help.

Initially, Pakistan kept denying that the 10th person (great freedom fighter Ajmal Kasab) is Pakistani national. Thanks god that we captured him alive other wise your question might go like this:

all 10 were from India. Such an attack does not happen from Pakistan.



From Wiki:
- The 2008 Mumbai attacks were more than ten coordinated shooting and bombing terrorist attacks across Mumbai, India's largest city, by Islamic terrorists from Pakistan.[6] The attacks, which drew widespread condemnation across the world, began on 26 November 2008 and lasted until 29 November, killing at least 173 people and wounding at least 308.

- Ajmal Kasab,[13] the only attacker who was captured alive, disclosed that the attackers were members of Lashkar-e-Taiba.

- On 7 January 2009, after more than a month of denying the nationality of the attackers, Pakistan's Information Minister Sherry Rehman officially accepted Ajmal Amir's nationality as Pakistani.

- On 12 February 2009, Pakistan's Interior Minister Rehman Malik, in a televised news briefing, confirmed that parts of the attack had been planned in Pakistan and said that six people, including the alleged mastermind, were being held in connection with the attacks.

- According to investigations the attackers traveled by sea from Karachi, Pakistan across the Arabian Sea, hijacked the Indian fishing trawler 'Kuber', killing the crew, and then entered Mumbai on a rubber dinghy.

Here are your inside helpers

- Several sources have quoted Kasab telling the police that the group received help from Mumbai residents.

- The police arrested two Indian suspects, Mikhtar Ahmad, who is from Srinagar in Kashmir, and Tausif Rehman, a resident of Kolkata. They supplied the SIM cards, one in Calcutta, and the other in New Delhi.

- Type 86 Grenades made by China's state-owned Norinco were used in the attacks.

- Blood tests on the attackers indicate that they had taken cocaine and LSD during the attacks, to sustain their energy and stay awake for 50 hours.

- In July 2009 Pakistani authorities confirmed that LeT plotted and financed the attacks from LeT camps in Karachi and Thatta.

Pakistan initially contested that Pakistanis were responsible for the attacks, blaming plotters in Bangladesh and Indian criminals,[83] a claim rubbished by India,[84], and saying they needed information from India on other bombings first[85].

Pakistani authorities finally agreed the attackers were Pakistani on 7 January 2009, and registered a case against three Pakistani nationals.

 

[vkurian]

I want to ask to all Indian members who say we should talk to them....about what we are going to talk.

Are we going to give them part of Kashmir coz some of the people leaving there want that to happen? Then it can be couple of districts in Kerala tomorrow or West Bengal so we give them those regions also?

Does anyone think we will be able to take a inch of land from them ……..we can keep on drawing our maps as we want but the reality is far from that.

Any civilized society in this world would not have defended LET for their barbaric act of violence in Mumbai but Pakistan continues to do so suggesting nuances of law.

I am all for friendly relationship …let them live their life as they want we have to be watchful and the onus of protecting our citizens should be on us and not because of any assurance from any one. If we have not learnt our lessons in sixty years when will we?

Let us be practical and stop playing hawks and doves under international pressure and convert LOC to international boundary. If Pakistan stops behaving as rouge state we can treat them as any other country with all due respect till such time there should be no itch to develop trade & commerce with them. We have the whole world to trade with and so do they.

 

[vsdoc]

Pakistan should talk to Pakistanis first.

India abhi door ki baat hai.

Talk to the ISI.

Talk to the funadamentals in the Army.

Talk to the rogue Nuclear proliferators.

Talk to the Jihadis in the terror training camps.

Talk to the Mullas brainwashing kids in the madrasas.

Talk to the TTP.

Talk to the "Punjabi Taliban."

Talk to the LET, the JUD, and other esteemed Pakistani organisations of their ilk

Talk to millions of residents of Pakistan who do not seem to accept the writ of Pakistan.

Talk to the rabid Hamids and Qureshis and other warmongers of their ilk.

Ask them what they want.

Then when you have your answer, let us know if you still want to talk.

And let us know who to talk to while you're at it.

Cheers, Doc

 

[god]

oh we should start the talks and finish it off in a single sentence


"You do anything in India expect the same in Pakistan 10 times more. Try in Kashmir payback in Balochistan."

 

[Spitfighter]

First of all, who should the GoI talk to in Pakistan? the army? the GoP? ISI? non-state actors?

Secondly, has Pakistan taken action against the terrorists responsible for 26/11? Have they been hung? Nope. On the contrary, they have been charged with 'disrupting trade'.

We have wasted plenty of time talking to Pakistan, its time for action now.

 

[deckingraj]

We have wasted plenty of time talking to Pakistan, its time for action now.

Care to elaborate what kind of action you would like GOI to take??

 

[deckingraj]

I want to ask to all Indian members who say we should talk to them....about what we are going to talk.

Are we going to give them part of Kashmir coz some of the people leaving there want that to happen? Then it can be couple of districts in Kerala tomorrow or West Bengal so we give them those regions also?

Does anyone think we will be able to take a inch of land from them ……..we can keep on drawing our maps as we want but the reality is far from that.

Don't you think your above two statements say it all about why should we talk??? Neither that can take an inch from us nor we...So is there any other way to resolve the issue if not talks???

Any civilized society in this world would not have defended LET for their barbaric act of violence in Mumbai but Pakistan continues to do so suggesting nuances of law

.

And your point be?? They are our adversary and doing whatever they can to hurt us...Now either we reply back and hurt them and continue like this..or solve the issue by talking to them...What choice you think make more sense??? Having said that i completely endorse GOI move of not talking to them right now because you need to have an environment for talks and nothing would be achieve under the barel of gun...

I am all for friendly relationship …let them live their life as they want we have to be watchful and the onus of protecting our citizens should be on us and not because of any assurance from any one. If we have not learnt our lessons in sixty years when will we?

You are right..the onus of protecting our citizens is on us...but i fail to understand why don't you see talking and resolving issue with pakistan is one of the step in that direction only???

Let us be practical and stop playing hawks and doves under international pressure and convert LOC to international boundary. If Pakistan stops behaving as rouge state we can treat them as any other country with all due respect till such time there should be no itch to develop trade & commerce with them. We have the whole world to trade with and so do they.

That's where you missed the whole point buddy....To solve anything amicably you need to have trust for each other...In a scenario of Indo-Pak it is imperative to have trust building mechanism...Now how will you achieve that??? Look at the other side of our border and you will see we have $51 billion trade with Chinese...

 

[Storm Force]

What do you PEOPLE want to talk about ???????????

 

[Spitfighter]

Care to elaborate what kind of action you would like GOI to take??

Tit for tat.

If Indians are murdered, we need to hunt down the bastards that did it and make them sorry they were born. Preferably severe covert action, don't want to do anything that would give the PA any reasons to pull out from the western front.

We can't continue to sit idle and hope and pray that Pakistan will take action against terrorist groups operating on its soil. They have charged the 7 accused with 'disrupting trade'. If after that slap in the face, you think that 'talking' will work then you are living in a fantasy world.

South Asia needs peace but at the same time India needs to make it clear that it will take action against terrorists groups one way or the other. fir jo hoga so hoga.

 

[Spitfighter]

You have proven only one was pakistani not the other 9, no one knows how many out of the 9 were from india. Such an attack does not happen without inside help.

is this what is has come down to now? are you deliberately being disingenuous or are you in denial? The terrorists were Pakistani, your government was forced to admit the fact and here you are talking about proof?

Go ask the GoP for proof.

 

[Iggy]

Don't you think your above two statements say it all about why should we talk??? Neither that can take an inch from us nor we...So is there any other way to resolve the issue if not talks???

.

And your point be?? They are our adversary and doing whatever they can to hurt us...Now either we reply back and hurt them and continue like this..or solve the issue by talking to them...What choice you think make more sense??? Having said that i completely endorse GOI move of not talking to them right now because you need to have an environment for talks and nothing would be achieve under the barel of gun...



You are right..the onus of protecting our citizens is on us...but i fail to understand why don't you see talking and resolving issue with pakistan is one of the step in that direction only???



That's where you missed the whole point buddy....To solve anything amicably you need to have trust for each other...In a scenario of Indo-Pak it is imperative to have trust building mechanism...Now how will you achieve that??? Look at the other side of our border and you will see we have $51 billion trade with Chinese...

Decki tell me how many times do we have to move on and come to the negotiating table??look at the last three times ..as Novice09 pointed out what was the end result??and addking to Novice, latest one was mumbai..Whats the purpose of peace talking if our citizens continue to die in the hands of terrorists who are harboured by country we are trying to have peace with??How can a normal citizen like me trust my neighbouring country who offer one hand for negotiation and on the other hand harbouring terrorist organisations who are trying every possible means to destroy my country??

Is it better to wait for some time to see some credible action taken by Pakistan authorities and then came to peace table for talks??Is that what a responsible nation would do who is also a important member in WoT?To be frank common people in India like me are fed of this double talks and actions

 

[deckingraj]

Seiko my friend i understand your frustration....However issues as complex as Kashmir cannot be settled by frustrations....

Decki tell me how many times do we have to move on and come to the negotiating table??

Well to be blunt as many times as it needs to because like it or not the only way of solving the issue is on negotiating table...if 3 and half wars could not solve it then another one also cannot...A sarcastic comment would be yes the next war will solve it for good(by wiping off both the countries)..

look at the last three times ..as Novice09 pointed out what was the end result??

End result was we could not achieve what we wanted...Does that mean we should stop talking??? However as said before we do not have congenial environment for talks...Just see what people did after Sharma-Sheikh joint declaration...thus onus is on Pak to help creating that atmosphere...

and addking to Novice, latest one was mumbai..Whats the purpose of peace talking if our citizens continue to die in the hands of terrorists who are harboured by country we are trying to have peace with??How can a normal citizen like me trust my neighbouring country who offer one hand for negotiation and on the other hand harbouring terrorist organisations who are trying every possible means to destroy my country??

You are right...It is very hard to trust our neighbor...However the same can be said about people living on the other side of the border...Right or wrong reasons we both don't trust each other...So what is the way to move forward...We need to have a trust building mechanism....Trade is one of the option....IN fact i also pointed out the staggering trade between India and China even though we have border dispute with them...

Is it better to wait for some time to see some credible action taken by Pakistan authorities and then came to peace table for talks??Is that what a responsible nation would do who is also a important member in WoT?

NO a responsible nation should not just wait...Neither are we.......As per me responsible nation is doing everything it can to put diplomatic pressure on Pakistan....After mumbai some changes can be seen in India as well from the security aparatus...However we can debate on pace at which work is going on...On contrary what else can you do???? Wage a war against them or do similar covert operations against them...both are counter productive....

To be frank common people in India like me are fed of this double talks and actions

Well i do see your point...However if we listen to people like Brijesh MIshra(security advisor during BJP regime) we will get to know that during Musharraf regime India and Pak came very close to solving Kashmir Issue...Unfortunately unstability creep into Pakistan politics and we could not put the final nail in the coffin......Secondly Kashmir is comparatively peaceful...Quite diplomacy is doing its work...Pakistan is dealing with its own frankestein...So all i will say is wait and watch