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Punjab: Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy

He didn't want extremism, that is all.
I think instead of doing the asking, you should do some reading -
No need, really. I've talked to people who talked to Jinnah and they claim he never wanted an Islamic Republic; such men had a hand in ensuring that Bangladesh has no state religion.

Muslim society you talk about is over a billion strong (and growing)
So?

and now you put words in my mouth AND twist my words?
No, I'm trying to make sense of what you wrote.
So i'll just wait and see what happens. My hope is that she is left alone
And if she isn't and suffers harassment or death, what will you do?

No, nobody is okay (I'm answering for him lol) but what are we supposed to do?
Would you care to share the possible courses of action you have in mind?

This goes the same everywhere. It all depends on leadership and society itself to correct these faults. It's hard to explain
Go on, why stop now?

There are more things for us Pakistanis to be annoyed about right now. This is the least of our concerns.
Tyrants always try to distract the populace from the real sources of their problems.
on Pakistan, what western media reports is usually only 33% of the whole story; time to time there is what I call an ''omission of convenience'' I sympathize with americans who yearn to, or already believe they are having access to full information; we saw how duped they were in 2003 when the blunders started becoming REAL blunders
How does dwelling upon the real or imagined deficiencies in "western media reports" help you solve the problems in Pakistani society?
 
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Solomon: What do you think is the source of the 'real' problem?

If you are talking about "Islamization", I assure you that you are wrong and that we will come to terms with faith and it will not be secular. You can't remove it. Amen.
 
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No need, really. I've talked to people who talked to Jinnah and they claim he never wanted an Islamic Republic; such men had a hand in ensuring that Bangladesh has no state religion.

who are those people, if i may ask?

No, I'm trying to make sense of what you wrote.And if she isn't and suffers harassment or death, what will you do?

I don't think she will, so no need for me to worry about it. If she does, then we'll talk.

Tyrants always try to distract the populace from the real sources of their problems.

isnt it like that in any country, yours included?

again, we have the media which is playing a good role in highlighting the problems; its the job of govt. to act on them.

How does dwelling upon the real or imagined deficiencies in "western media reports" help you solve the problems in Pakistani society?

it doesnt; but it addresses the need of outsiders like you to gain more information before drawing (pre-natal) conclusions
 
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Solomon: What do you think is the source of the 'real' problem?
Pakistan only has ONE!?!?

who are those people, if i may ask?
Pakistani diplomats who became Bangladeshi ones.

I don't think she will, so no need for me to worry about it. If she does, then we'll talk.
You are sure you will notice?

isnt it like that in any country, yours included?
In America few such people now are politicians; they more commonly appear as middle management.
 
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Pakistan only has ONE!?!?

we have several; but seems you are knee deep in your own, therefore its best for you to worry about your own country first instead of trying to be the global police

Pakistani diplomats who became Bangladeshi ones.

hmmm...they must be quite senile then, isnt it?

You are sure you will notice?

you obviously don't understand or fathom the power of the media in our country


In America few such people now are politicians; they more commonly appear as middle management.

Really?

I wish that was the case in spring, 2003 when 300 million Americans were duped into the biggest blunder of their history

one could argue that it was a huge distraction itself --especially with regards to the War on Terrorism; if even half those resources were used in Afghanistan when the odds were much more in your favour, i think the reality in the invaded country would be much more favourable for all of us --especially Pakistan which is the country that will have to deal with it once NATO (inevitably) packs the rucksacks and goes home

then again, that has little to do with the thread so i wont venture out further into this subject
 
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we have several; but seems you are knee deep -
You, along with many of your countrymen, are completely confident that America has something worthy to teach, or else you wouldn't have chosen to come here for graduate school. I take it, then, that you are mouthing a mere social convention popular at home. It is the function of social reformers to take such conventions and crush them into pudding!

they must be quite senile then, isnt it?
They weren't forty years ago when I first met them.
you obviously don't understand or fathom the power of the media in our country
So educate me.

I wish that was the case in spring, 2003 when 300 million Americans were duped into the biggest blunder of their history
In 1972 Zhou Enlai declared that it was too early to judge the impact of the French Revolution. The change in Iraq is no less momentous, so I see no reason to rush to a snap judgment.
 
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If man can be sentenced to jail by just denying the Holocaust, then what is wrong here? Man denies holocaust, he has not killed anyone, he has not raped anyone, he has not insulted any prophets or any religion, he has not even had a trafic ticket, but still goes to jail. A woman commit blasphemy that has a law in Pakistan to be sentenced to death then we follow the law. The law may not be perfect but all citizens of the country have to abide by it and also be aware of the consequences. Sometimes things are not perfect but everything is not perfect in any country of the world.
 
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Sometimes things are not perfect but everything is not perfect in any country of the world.


Or maybe that's when you want to make a change, maybe? Look at who this law is always used against - Poor peasants who are religious minorities - in essence it is the handmaiden of the feudal and his mullah, is that the Pakistan you would want? I doubt that very much, indeed. It's time this oppressive tool was set aside, it offends the conscience of Pakistanis to be associated with such unfairness, with such pettiness, with such vindictiveness, with such naked abuse of power over persons who should be protected instead of being preyed upon.
 
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For Muslims, Zakaat tax is compulsory. For non-Muslims, Jizya is.

This is the part that people don't seem to understand.

Muslims pay the Muslim tax, zakaat.
Non-Muslims pay the jizya.


Nobody is being taxed unfairly or being discriminated against.
 
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BTW, Is the jizya amount the same as the Zakaat amount?
 
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Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam - Yahoo! News

By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Diaa Hadid, Associated Press – Fri Nov 12, 4:31 am ET

QALQILIYA, West Bank – A mysterious blogger who set off an uproar in the Arab world by claiming he was God and hurling insults at the Prophet Muhammad is now behind bars — caught in a sting that used Facebook to track him down.

The case of the unlikely apostate, a shy barber from this backwater West Bank town, is highlighting the limits of tolerance in the Western-backed Palestinian Authority — and illustrating a new trend by authorities in the Arab world to mine social media for evidence.

Residents of Qalqiliya say they had no idea that Walid Husayin — the 26-year-old son of a Muslim scholar — was leading a double life.

Known as a quiet man who prayed with his family each Friday and spent his evenings working in his father's barbershop, Husayin was secretly posting anti-religion rants on the Internet during his free time.

Now, he faces a potential life prison sentence on heresy charges for "insulting the divine essence." Many in this conservative Muslim town say he should be killed for renouncing Islam, and even family members say he should remain behind bars for life.

"He should be burned to death," said Abdul-Latif Dahoud, a 35-year-old Qalqiliya resident. The execution should take place in public "to be an example to others," he added.

Over several years, Husayin is suspected of posting arguments in favor of atheism on English and Arabic blogs, where he described the God of Islam as having the attributes of a "primitive Bedouin." He called Islam a "blind faith that grows and takes over people's minds where there is irrationality and ignorance."

If that wasn't enough, he is also suspected of creating three Facebook groups in which he sarcastically declared himself God and ordered his followers, among other things, to smoke marijuana in verses that spoof the Muslim holy book, the Quran. At its peak, Husayin's Arabic-language blog had more than 70,000 visitors, overwhelmingly from Arab countries.

His Facebook groups elicited hundreds of angry comments, detailed death threats and the formation of more than a dozen Facebook groups against him, including once called "Fight the blasphemer who said `I am God.'"

The outburst of anger reflects the feeling in the Muslim world that their faith is under mounting attack by the West. This sensitivity has periodically turned violent, such as the street protests that erupted in 2005 after cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad were published in Denmark or after Pope Benedict XVI suggested the Prophet Muhammad was evil the following year. The pope later retracted his comment.

Husayin is the first to be arrested in the West Bank for his religious views, said Tayseer Tamimi, the former chief Islamic judge in the area.

The Western-backed Palestinian Authority is among the more religiously liberal Arab governments in the region. It is dominated by secular elites and has frequently cracked down on hardline Muslims and activists connected to its conservative Islamic rival, Hamas.

Husayin's high public profile and prickly style, however, left authorities no choice but to take action.

Husayin used a fake name on his English and Arabic-language blogs and Facebook pages. After his mother discovered articles on atheism on his computer, she canceled his Internet connection in hopes that he would change his mind.

Instead, he began going to an Internet cafe — a move that turned out to be a costly mistake. The owner, Ahmed Abu-Asal, said the blogger aroused suspicion by spending up to seven hours a day in a corner booth. After several months, a cafe worker supplied captured snapshots of his Facebook pages to Palestinian intelligence officials.

Officials monitored him for several weeks and then arrested him on Oct. 31 as he sat in the cafe, said Abu-Asal.

Husayin's family has been devastated by the arrest. On a recent day, his father stood sadly in the family barber shop, cluttered with colorful towels and posters of men in outdated haircuts. He requested that a reporter not write about his son to avoid being publicly shamed.

Two cousins attributed the writings to depression, saying Husayin was desperate to find better work. Requesting anonymity because of the shame the incident, they said Husayin's mother wants him to remain in prison for life — both to restore the family's honor and to protect him from vigilantes.

The case is the second high-profile arrest connected in the West Bank connected to Facebook activity. In late September, a reporter for a news station sympathetic to Hamas was arrested and detained for more than a month after he was tagged in a Facebook image that insulted the Palestinian president.

Gaza's Hamas rulers also stalk Facebook pages of suspected dissenters, said Palestinian rights activist Mustafa Ibrahim. He said Internet cafe owners are forced to monitor customers' online activity, and alert intelligence officials if they see anything critical of the militant group or that violates Hamas' stern interpretation of Islam.

Both governments also create fake Facebook profiles to befriend and monitor known dissidents, activists said. In September, a young Gaza man was detained after publishing an article critical of Hamas on his Facebook feed.

Such "stalking" on Facebook and other social media sites has become increasingly common in the Arab world. In Lebanon, four people were arrested over the summer and accused of slandering President Michel Suleiman on Facebook. All have been released on bail.

In neighboring Syria, Facebook is blocked altogether. And in Egypt, a blogger was charged with atheism in 2007 after intelligence officials monitored his posts.

Husayin has not been charged but remains in detention, said Palestinian security spokesman Adnan Damiri.

He could face a life sentence if he's found guilty, depending on how harshly the judge thinks he attacked Islam and how widely his views were broadcast, said Islamic scholar Tamimi.

Even so, a small minority has questioned whether the government went too far.

Zainab Rashid, a liberal Palestinian commentator, wrote in an online opinion piece that Husayin has made an important point: "that criticizing religious texts for their (intellectual) weakness can only be combatted by ... oppression, prison and execution."
 
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Palestinian held for Facebook criticism of Islam - Yahoo! News

By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Diaa Hadid, Associated Press – Fri Nov 12, 4:31 am ET

QALQILIYA, West Bank – A mysterious blogger who set off an uproar in the Arab world by claiming he was God and hurling insults at the Prophet Muhammad is now behind bars — caught in a sting that used Facebook to track him down.

The case of the unlikely apostate, a shy barber from this backwater West Bank town, is highlighting the limits of tolerance in the Western-backed Palestinian Authority — and illustrating a new trend by authorities in the Arab world to mine social media for evidence.

Residents of Qalqiliya say they had no idea that Walid Husayin — the 26-year-old son of a Muslim scholar — was leading a double life.

Known as a quiet man who prayed with his family each Friday and spent his evenings working in his father's barbershop, Husayin was secretly posting anti-religion rants on the Internet during his free time.

Now, he faces a potential life prison sentence on heresy charges for "insulting the divine essence." Many in this conservative Muslim town say he should be killed for renouncing Islam, and even family members say he should remain behind bars for life.

"He should be burned to death," said Abdul-Latif Dahoud, a 35-year-old Qalqiliya resident. The execution should take place in public "to be an example to others," he added.

Over several years, Husayin is suspected of posting arguments in favor of atheism on English and Arabic blogs, where he described the God of Islam as having the attributes of a "primitive Bedouin." He called Islam a "blind faith that grows and takes over people's minds where there is irrationality and ignorance."

If that wasn't enough, he is also suspected of creating three Facebook groups in which he sarcastically declared himself God and ordered his followers, among other things, to smoke marijuana in verses that spoof the Muslim holy book, the Quran. At its peak, Husayin's Arabic-language blog had more than 70,000 visitors, overwhelmingly from Arab countries.

His Facebook groups elicited hundreds of angry comments, detailed death threats and the formation of more than a dozen Facebook groups against him, including once called "Fight the blasphemer who said `I am God.'"

The outburst of anger reflects the feeling in the Muslim world that their faith is under mounting attack by the West. This sensitivity has periodically turned violent, such as the street protests that erupted in 2005 after cartoons mocking the Prophet Muhammad were published in Denmark or after Pope Benedict XVI suggested the Prophet Muhammad was evil the following year. The pope later retracted his comment.

Husayin is the first to be arrested in the West Bank for his religious views, said Tayseer Tamimi, the former chief Islamic judge in the area.

The Western-backed Palestinian Authority is among the more religiously liberal Arab governments in the region. It is dominated by secular elites and has frequently cracked down on hardline Muslims and activists connected to its conservative Islamic rival, Hamas.

Husayin's high public profile and prickly style, however, left authorities no choice but to take action.

Husayin used a fake name on his English and Arabic-language blogs and Facebook pages. After his mother discovered articles on atheism on his computer, she canceled his Internet connection in hopes that he would change his mind.

Instead, he began going to an Internet cafe — a move that turned out to be a costly mistake. The owner, Ahmed Abu-Asal, said the blogger aroused suspicion by spending up to seven hours a day in a corner booth. After several months, a cafe worker supplied captured snapshots of his Facebook pages to Palestinian intelligence officials.

Officials monitored him for several weeks and then arrested him on Oct. 31 as he sat in the cafe, said Abu-Asal.

Husayin's family has been devastated by the arrest. On a recent day, his father stood sadly in the family barber shop, cluttered with colorful towels and posters of men in outdated haircuts. He requested that a reporter not write about his son to avoid being publicly shamed.

Two cousins attributed the writings to depression, saying Husayin was desperate to find better work. Requesting anonymity because of the shame the incident, they said Husayin's mother wants him to remain in prison for life — both to restore the family's honor and to protect him from vigilantes.

The case is the second high-profile arrest connected in the West Bank connected to Facebook activity. In late September, a reporter for a news station sympathetic to Hamas was arrested and detained for more than a month after he was tagged in a Facebook image that insulted the Palestinian president.

Gaza's Hamas rulers also stalk Facebook pages of suspected dissenters, said Palestinian rights activist Mustafa Ibrahim. He said Internet cafe owners are forced to monitor customers' online activity, and alert intelligence officials if they see anything critical of the militant group or that violates Hamas' stern interpretation of Islam.

Both governments also create fake Facebook profiles to befriend and monitor known dissidents, activists said. In September, a young Gaza man was detained after publishing an article critical of Hamas on his Facebook feed.

Such "stalking" on Facebook and other social media sites has become increasingly common in the Arab world. In Lebanon, four people were arrested over the summer and accused of slandering President Michel Suleiman on Facebook. All have been released on bail.

In neighboring Syria, Facebook is blocked altogether. And in Egypt, a blogger was charged with atheism in 2007 after intelligence officials monitored his posts.

Husayin has not been charged but remains in detention, said Palestinian security spokesman Adnan Damiri.

He could face a life sentence if he's found guilty, depending on how harshly the judge thinks he attacked Islam and how widely his views were broadcast, said Islamic scholar Tamimi.

Even so, a small minority has questioned whether the government went too far.

Zainab Rashid, a liberal Palestinian commentator, wrote in an online opinion piece that Husayin has made an important point: "that criticizing religious texts for their (intellectual) weakness can only be combatted by ... oppression, prison and execution."

Pakistan is not Palestine or Egypt, it's not even arab. We have a significant number of atheists and agnostics and they can talk about their beliefs quite openly without an fear of persecution unless they have a habit of talking about such sensitive matters in front of extremists, then there's reason t worry.

Pakistan is not an Arab nation my friend, we have a significant number of Agnostics and atheists, they talk about their beliefs quite openly and are not under any threat unless ofcourse they are fond of the Taliban's company, h
 
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This is the part that people don't seem to understand.

Muslims pay the Muslim tax, zakaat.
Non-Muslims pay the jizya.


Nobody is being taxed unfairly or being discriminated against.

Taxation based on religion is unfair.

The amounts do not matter the concept is flawed.May have been relevant centuries ago and most definitely needs review provided of course anyone has the courage to question it.
 
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Taxation based on religion is unfair.

The amounts do not matter the concept is flawed.May have been relevant centuries ago and most definitely needs review provided of course anyone has the courage to question it.

All states levy tax in one form or another -- whether its sales tax or nicome tax. Since Muslims are obligated by religion to pay zakaat, it would be unfair to tax them twice -- zakaat and income tax. Therefore, zakaat replaces income tax.

Since non-Muslims do not pay zakaat, they only pay regular income tax, i.e. jizya.

You are getting hung up on terminology. If the tax was called income tax, with appropriate deductions/exemptions for zakaat, it wouldn't be an issue.

The law should be tailoted so that the actual amount of the tax ends up being the same either way.
 
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