PTI was Danger to Pakistan, Pakistan wouldn't survive with them : General Bajwa

[VCheng]

Not according to SC or courts unf. The standard which you set btw. Alas, cruel fates.

It's okay. It does not matter to me. His legacy remains as disastrous for the nation as it ever was, just like his predecessors using the Pakistani Constitution as their personal toilet paper.

 

[MIRauf]

Yes, this is the same entire nation that distributes sweets when martial law comes and also when martial law goes. But only half of them distribute sweets when their preferred cult leader comes in and the other half distribute sweets when he goes. Clearly, the fauji experience is unifying for the country, both coming and going.

Happened when PPP and PML-N were retired, people chose lesser of the evil, least that's what they thought they were doing. Many of us who grew up in that timeline regret to celebrate the Military Take-Over, that is for sure at least in my family etc.

PS: Not pro PTI,

Days like today and what has transpired in last year or so makes calling HH a anti Pakistani / anti-Army a very hard thing to do.

 

[Ssan]

It's okay. It does not matter to me. His legacy remains as disastrous for the nation as it ever was, just like his predecessors using the Pakistani Constitution as their personal toilet paper.

Not according to the SC - who are the final authority as to who has used the constitution as toilet paper. According to you.

 

[truthseeker2010]

IMO the biggest threat to Pakistan was for the Pakistani public to see the PTI gov't fail by the end of its term. If seeing that, then they'd lose all hope in any of the mainstream parties and institutions.

However, Bajwa accelerated that entire process by a few years, maybe even several decades. Therefore, Bajwa actually did a favour because he got us to the inevitable sooner, hence forcing us to discuss solutions earlier.

Bajwa the Itachi playing 5G warfare chess.

/s

Yes the general did a huge favour by letting everyone see who the real culprit always was, which inevitably has led people lost all hope in not just political parties but the only so called institution. Yes he fast tracked of what was way over due.

 

[VCheng]

Happened when PPP and PML-N were retired, people chose lesser of the evil, least that's what they thought they were doing. Many of us who grew up in that timeline regret to celebrate the Military Take-Over, that is for sure at least in my family etc.

PS: Not pro PTI,

Days like today and what has transpired in last year or so makes calling HH a anti Pakistani / anti-Army a very hard thing to do.

Just reminds of the old joke where the guy was punished to get a hundred lashes OR eat a hundred onions, and ended up getting a hundred lashes AND eating a hundred onions because could not decide which was the lesser punishment.

Not according to the SC - who are the final authority as to who has used the constitution as toilet paper. According to you.

The SC declared him clear of treason, that is all, and that too on a technicality. I am totally fine with that. His NRO that unleashed the criminal gang that you see today is the real crime. And Kargil. And NAB. And more.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yes the general did a huge favour by letting everyone see who the real culprit always was, which inevitably has led people lost all hope in not just political parties but the only so called institution. Yes he fast tracked of what was way over due.

Yep. Those who've been criticizing the role of the Army leadership in Pakistani politics and economy got the lifeline of the century from Bajwa. In fact, with his most recent statements, Bajwa keeps on giving and giving.

This man may have fundamentally changed the course of Pakistan. Now, for better or worse, no one will take the mainstream parties or judiciary or army seriously. The trust Pakistanis have in Pakistan has hit rock-bottom.

 

[VCheng]

This man may have fundamentally changed the course of Pakistan, for better or worse.

That is what is being claimed fervently, but has yet to be proven true, even in a small way.

 

[blain2]

Yeah great thinking man who thinks Shaukat tareen wasn't good but brought the Ishaq dar to ruin whatever remains of economy.

Idk how you even got courage to pait this wardi mafia as some kind saints

He didn't bring Ishaq Dar. PDM did just like he did not approve/validate 5 other FMs that were changed in the PTI setup. When the PDM came into power, you know who the FM was. Military had no issues with Miftah Ismail but PML-N had other ideas.

As far as courage is concerned, I think thus I say instead of blindly following one party's narrative.

what is the oath that these Pindi boises take when they become officers? And if they break their oath the are worse than the heera mandi ki rundi,
Also, it was the same begharats who tortured Mother of Natin Fatimah ali jannah, and the loser Field marshall use to call her kutti k bachi, lol same shit narrative was used back then


not his fking job to run the country. PERIOD

Are you not able to read between the lines? It's IK asking, again *asking* the sitting CoAS to orchestrate MQM in his favor. So what are you going off about "is it his job" etc. etc? Why make the deal with the devil and ask for favors if this is so undemocratic?

I don't give two hoots about what happened with FJ as it was a different time under a different character. I was no fan of the FM for many other reasons but that situation has nothing to do with the situation on hand now.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That is what is being claimed fervently, but has yet to be proven true, even in a small way.

tbh I think he's changed the country. We won't see the effects for some years or even decades. But as of today, no one (among the public) will stand against you if you criticize the army, judiciary, or politicians. This, in itself, is huge.

Now, imagine you're Awami National League and you push for a nationalist agenda for KP. Is the public really going to disagree with you? Sure, the establishment might step in with brute force, but that'll create fuel for another 1971. Yes, you'll run into debates and stuff with people who still want Pakistan, but the latter don't have a leg to stand on under the status quo.

Then, on the other end of the spectrum, you have the radical Islamists who want to uproot the entire establishment -- people and institutions. It's the same reality. If they say, "Pakistan's institutions are illegitimate," what are you going to tell them when you have the supporters of every mainstream party saying the same thing when their guy (IK, NS, AZ) is getting booked?

Sure, these actors won't matter for some years, but until this point, it was the bare minimum legitimacy of the establishment (carried by the Army) that kept them out of mainstream political discourse. However, Bajwa has destroyed the wall keeping them out, and our people are going to change what they believe over the coming years, and that'll manifest in major political change.

We have a crap economy. We have zero trust in our institutions. And, to top it all off, the likes of Bajwa, PDM, PTI, etc, keep throwing fuel to the fire and give us all even more cause to hate the status quo. Unfortunately, when it comes to well-defined solutions, there are only 2 entities that are offering a substantive vision (for good or bad), the Provincialists and the Islamists.

 

[VCheng]

tbh I think he's changed the country. We won't see the effects for some years or even decades. But as of today, no one (among the public) will stand against you if you criticize the army, judiciary, or politicians. This, in itself, is huge.

I can understand why you would think that, but in my view it still needs at least some time to see whether it is borne out by actual events, the first and foremost being the results of the next elections. Turnout and support for IK will be all-important. If that is huge, then I could see reasons to concur with your views here, but not at least until then.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Yep. Those who've been criticizing the role of the Army leadership in Pakistani politics and economy got the lifeline of the century from Bajwa. In fact, with his most recent statements, Bajwa keeps on giving and giving.

This man may have fundamentally changed the course of Pakistan. Now, for better or worse, no one will take the mainstream parties or judiciary or army seriously. The trust Pakistanis have in Pakistan has hit rock-bottom.

It's actually the army who proved the critics or traitors as per their language right and the fact is history was always right (not what u teach to your children in school).

The man didn't change anything he just exposed it in a way none of his predecessor could. From there things will only get worse for boys no matter how religious the top man is. The trust has not hit anything. Its gone forever.

 

[mourning sage]

Don't do this to yourselves. You have bought into a narrative that is blind to the other side's perspective.

Grant that Gen Bajwa is a thinking man. The easiest thing for him was to ride out the PTI term and retire into the sunset. Yet, there were important imperatives that were getting into the way of his peaceful retirement.

As is the case with everyone, this is not to suggest the Gen did not make mistakes, but so did Khan sahib with some that were costly to our country.

Yada yada yada. It is irrelevant what the good general says. The country has lost its faith in the wardi. Except for the word of Quran, anything they say is unacceptable. The crimes of the fauj are far too many to accept anything at face value. I dont trust them and I wont accept it. And like me, pretty much the entire young population of this country has lost its faith. 20 years of brainwashing was undone by Bajwa and his policies. Please don't mock our collective and individual intelligence by selling us the same chooran your kind sold against N and PPP. Heck, Bajwa and fauj have made Nawaz Sharif a visionary. He could see back in the 90s what we kids just learnt this year.

 

[Riz]

 

[blain2]

Why? Why must even a single thing Bajwa said be true?

Having gone back and forth to Pakistan in the last 2 years, I can safely say that the removal of PTI was the stupidest decision ever made. Pakistan's economy was recovering, and while PTI made some stupid decisions (none of which are mentioned in the article), the overall performance was far better than PPP's kleptocracy, and PMLN's fake growth.

PTI was not a danger to Pakistan. If PTI was a danger, the PPP and PMLN are death sentences.

Remains to be seen. Pakistan has been through multiple PPP and PML-N terms with all their worts etc. and the sky did not fall.

PTI similarly has to make a comeback like PPP and PML have.

You can look at the economic performance numbers in the past 20 years and you will see some of the setups have had just as good of an economic performance as the PTI setup.

So while it is horrendous that yet another democratic dispensation was sent packing prematurely, it isn't the end of the world for what is par for the course in Pakistan.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I can understand why you would think that, but in my view it still needs at least some time to see whether it is borne out by actual events, the first and foremost being the results of the next elections. Turnout and support for IK will be all-important. If that is huge, then I could see reasons to concur with your views here, but not at least until then.

If the people vote IK and PTI back in, then it means there's still some trust in the status quo in terms of the institutions and, broadly, the key players. Even if IK comes back, he won't be rolling off any heads or anything. It'll be the same, "arrest the guy, court case him" drama we've seen up to this point.

Except for Zulfi Bhutto and Zia ul Haq, no leader has gone out of their way to draw blood and disrupt the system. It's not as common as people think. In most cases, the 'power institutions' -- i.e., parliament, judiciary, army -- come to a tenuous deal to keep things moving because they themselves don't want to lose their heads in a real fight.

The question is whether the public will continue trusting these 3 pillars. IMO, after these events, I don't think that trust or goodwill exists. The public may be more pragmatic about tolerating it, but the sense of "believing" in any of them is gone. No one in Pakistan cares about democracy, or the Army, or the law. It's all about whether your interests are being fulfilled or not.

From what I've seen, the only true ideologues left in Pakistan are the Provincialists and the Islamists. They're the only ones today with a comprehensive vision of how the country should look and operate, but with little regard for their own personal interests. Moreover, from what I've seen, they also generally attract those with sincere intent to see their people thrive (be it their own ethnicity or the 'Ummah').