PTI government failed to protect DI Khan jail despite intelligence warning

[Marshmallow]

you know what? I hapeen to live in Cantt area Rawalpindi - westridge, thats where the barracks are , and oh am not a n army boy.
So as you CLAIMED that it was not the Rider's fault but the driver in Army jeep, I would love to know how you came to that conclusion? the soliders were laughing- is that a bad thing? it might be their personal thing, and IF YOU don't know but if an Army vehicle gets damage, they get in trouble and gets on their track record. Whether its their fault or not, paper work has to be done.....oh and you know the funny thing? they have to call in the Senior officer to the place of accident there and then for to investigate.

Thats funny isn't it



well tbh I don't - but I blame the system.
You know dear marshmallow the weird thing?
FOr all the years, Lahore has been exporting chemicals used for making bombs all over the country, and this has been said not once but numerous times, but I don't see anybody pointing fingers at Punjab govt....

cuz they are hypocrites!

 

[Argus Panoptes]

There are four provinces you have to add all their budgets regarding Police & law enforcement into account not just federal budget . that is why i said read the current fiscal year budget of all provinces ... i dont have time to go through all that ...............

In other words, you cannot provide evidence to support your claim, which must therefore be regarded as unproven at best and incorrect at worst.

If you make such a claim, please be prepared to prove it.

Well when you take away the cost of new procurement and future upgrade costs it isnt that much. Dont forget we are in a state of war......so personally I believe this is what they meant when they said, we dont have the largest share

The defense establishment is the biggest burden on the national treasury after debt servicing. That is a fact.

 

[F.O.X]

In other words, you cannot provide evidence to support your claim, which must therefore be regarded as unproven at best and incorrect at worst.

If you make such a claim, please be prepared to prove it.

Someone already did .. go through the thread .. instead of being lazy ..

 

[Luftwaffe]

In other words, you cannot provide evidence to support your claim, which must therefore be regarded as unproven at best and incorrect at worst.

If you make such a claim, please be prepared to prove it.

The defense establishment is the biggest burden on the national treasury after debt servicing. That is a fact.

Sindh Police budget 2010-2011 $290m [official] unofficial could be around 320m we know there is always an unofficial budget allocated.
The second link shows Sindh Police budget in 2013 to be 39 billion or approximately $390m

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Penny wise?: Employees

That's just Sindh, Punjab Police budget 2013-2014 is 71 Billion rupees increased from 62 billion rupees that is almost $700m
Police pocket 14.5pc budget boost

Just Add Sindh and Punjab police budget you get $1.1B perhaps a little more. I haven't even included KPK and Balochistan Police budget. I would assume the total Pakistan Police budget to be around $1.4B...

So you don't come blaming Defense Establishment for eating away the entire budget that fact is Police has been eating away resources with 0 Zero results related to law enforcement you may disagree I would gladly hand that over to Army to start policing.

 

[Amaa'n]

We are going off topic here - BUT I will still make my final comments on here - I am having hard time digesting this story of yours, as I see such things very often, did you with your own eyes saw the hilux moving off from the scene of accident just like that?
As I said earler you had the option of making a complaint against them or the biker.
Living in UK & still having trouble comprehending what I wrote in my first post? read it again and you might get the point, if you assumed something - Not my fault dear. And am sure you know what they say about assuming things.

Be my guest and disrespect a General as much as you want, but next time you try to be disrespect a Solider - better put yourself in there boots first.
Don't make things out of your bottoms to make your point - there NOW I said it

Remember the point we are talking about "discipline".

Firstly i edited that bit after & FCK dont mean nothing. (that's up to you how you read it out).

Basically we were on the way from Islamabad and there was alot of traffic. The army Jeep full of soldiers hit a person on bike from the back (i saw it with my own eyes it wasn't the bike rider fault). I was expecting the driver coming out helping and apologizing to the poor fella. you know what they done started laughing including the ugly driver.

That was my first post explaining the whole situation. There is nothing to ask about or confirm i have already told you what happened believe or not up to you.

Alright dont be political that you never said i was making this up bla bla. Your entire post suggests this & does not mean you have to write it in the post.

I did see the whole thing there were no lanes signs, our car was stopped in the first lane, the bike was stopped in second or 3rd lane traffic was stopped and the Hilux came just gave a little a push. I wasn't driving so my concentration was all there.

Personal hatred would be the last thing i based my talk/thinking on, its more on Facts/evidence.

You said & i quote "the soliders were laughing- is that a bad thing?" << that just tells me everything doesnt it? Even if it was the bikers fault, you dont start laughing at some one after you have hit them, in this case it was the other way round.

All I am saying is! Jaise Awamm.... Waiseee leaders... waiseee Army(generals).

The way we treat awam the majority agree on this, the way we treat our leaders the majority agree on that! So nothing special about the Generals/Army.

however the facts are different, the majority still support the Army even though they are worse. This is psychology & that's their success, Different nations 1% controls their population in a different way.

The defense establishment is the biggest burden on the national treasury after debt servicing. That is a fact.

So what you suggest we do sir - Defence budget has to be up as Deterrence is equally importance otherwise you will have other countries playing adventure like 2nd may.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@balixd, see post #124

Police budget is over $1B...alone Punjab Police has a $700m+ budget.

 

[Bratva]

@Areesh see how F.O.X is making sideway arguments instead of answering specific question you raised? Let's ask this gentleman some more questions, let's see if he really remain to the point this time


* Terrorists were wearing NVG and they cut off the electricity before commencing the attack, Prison guards only had AK47, failure of higher who didn't provided proper equipment, So do you expect if there were 150 prison guards they would not have been over runned by such brutal attack, do 200 prison guards if they were on duty at that time were trained to fight in dark without NVG's??

*150 terrorists attacked prison with RPG-7 and heavy weapons and overwhelmed the prison security. There is the failure of Police officials who didn't kept check on prison security and is it failure of PTI government or failure of Army check posts who let them through ?

* When Call for reinforcements were made, despite Army garrison at 5-10 mint walk away, why didn't they reached there on time? Is it failure of PTI government?

* Where were army check posts in b/w S.Waziristan and D.I.Khan when terrorists moved back to FATA after attacking prison?

 

[Jazzbot]

there are many questions of which we dont have any answers. we can just creates conspiracy theories and blame each other. until we don't have any policy at national level and until we will not make our mind clear either we have to fight with them or we have to do peace. this things will happen again and again and more people will die.

i will say at the end ots our collective failure because may be people here forgetting taht inside side help was there as i heard in a talk show that when taliban went inside jail the some lockup was already open. in video i saw in loedckup they are using chinese locks which u can even break with hammer. what FCK is this yara

That's the point brother, our all stake holders just put things on others and go to sleep. Our army did the same in this incident. They should have moved a step ahead and have intercepted those rats without relying on any political govt if they really wanted to intercept those rats...

 

[Cheetah786]

Till and when People are fired plus jailed for their negligence this will continue to happen? know we have terrorist not convicted at all or escape without a trace going to courts but to top it off even the convicted ones being released Nudge Nudge Wink Wink.(why are terrorist kept alive in jails after being convicted cant find a place to shoot or hang them.What bunch of certifiable at every level retards most incompetent morons running a country.

How about PTI government fire Minister in charge of law and order situation in the province for starter then all of the management at jail? Good luck not going to happen i guess PTI NaYa pakistan old games......

 

[Jazzbot]

@Areesh see how F.O.X is making sideway arguments instead of answering specific question you raised? Let's ask this gentleman some more questions, let's see if he really remain to the point this time


* Terrorists were wearing NVG and they cut off the electricity before commencing the attack, Prison guards only had AK47, failure of higher who didn't provided proper equipment, So do you expect if there were 150 prison guards they would not have been over runned by such brutal attack, do 200 prison guards if they were on duty at that time were trained to fight in dark without NVG's??

*150 terrorists attacked prison with RPG-7 and heavy weapons and overwhelmed the prison security. There is the failure of Police officials who didn't kept check on prison security and is it failure of PTI government or failure of Army check posts who let them through ?

* When Call for reinforcements were made, despite Army garrison at 5-10 mint walk away, why didn't they reached there on time? Is it failure of PTI government?

* Where were army check posts in b/w S.Waziristan and D.I.Khan when terrorists moved back to FATA after attacking prison?

Good valid questions, plus add a few more:

1) Intel was there about this attack 3 days before the attack actually took place. So let's assume Army also know about this intel like KPK govt knew about it. Now since exact day of attack was known, why didn't Army beefed up the security in or around Waziristan and on checkposts near / around Waziristan. We all know its hub of TTP so anyone can make a safe guess that this kind attack will be led or sponsored from there..

2) Point 1 wasn't taken care of, and Army is directly responsible for it. Army let the convoy of 150 terrorists pass through from a militarily sealed area. Its practically impossible that a convoy of this magnitude went unseen from those Army checkposts..

3) When DI Khan Jail was under attack, the reinforcement calls were immediately made. Now I'm not asking why reinforcement arrived late. The question is, the calls were made and entire country came to know that something is happening at DI Khan prison. When terrorists left after releasing prisoners, why weren't they intercepted en-route to Waziristan?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Someone already did .. go through the thread .. instead of being lazy ..

Yes, I read that, it showed Army budget is still larger.

Sindh Police budget 2010-2011 $290m [official] unofficial could be around 320m we know there is always an unofficial budget allocated.
The second link shows Sindh Police budget in 2013 to be 39 billion or approximately $390m

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Penny wise?: Employees

That's just Sindh, Punjab Police budget 2013-2014 is 71 Billion rupees increased from 62 billion rupees that is almost $700m
Police pocket 14.5pc budget boost

Just Add Sindh and Punjab police budget you get $1.1B perhaps a little more. I haven't even included KPK and Balochistan Police budget. I would assume the total Pakistan Police budget to be around $1.4B...

So you don't come blaming Defense Establishment for eating away the entire budget that fact is Police has been eating away resources with 0 Zero results related to law enforcement you may disagree I would gladly hand that over to Army to start policing.

You are correct that the police have a good budget without showing much for it either. I agree with that. But the defense budget is still much larger, which was the point I was making.

Even more important is this point that our failures, whether police, our Army, or indeed any other government agency, have more to do with an innate lack of true ability rather than a lack of money.

We have enough money to do some basic jobs correct, and we fail in even that. Miserably.

..........


So what you suggest we do sir - Defence budget has to be up as Deterrence is equally importance otherwise you will have other countries playing adventure like 2nd may.

Well, other countries played May 2 already, and if you read the report, the chances of another one are still there, given our incompetence. This problem is much more than just money.

 

[iPhone]

It is the fault of KPK Govt , dont pin it on Army .. it looks pathetic . . .

Shabash hai, you are just too much. How is this not army's fault? You realize what these talibs showed up with in that attack? Nightvisions, RPGs, machine guns, explosives, suicide bombers, a whole over 150 of well equipped army showed up to fight some rifle wala police.

And you're saying its not the army's job to intervene? Are kidding me? These aren't your run of the mill criminals or dakus, that the police should have fought them. If tomorrow Indian troops came marching into Pakistan and attacked a jail to free their prisoners, will the Pak army throw their hands in the air and say, whup it's an internal matter, we shouldn't be protecting jails etc, its the police job?

Just as its the army job to keep foreign troops at bay, it's the army's job to destroy well equipped large number of terrorist organization. Isn't the army fighting the ttp for, let me see, over five years? Isn't it the army's failure that ttp has become this big a monster rather than being reduced to rubble.

You know what, I'm getting worked up here and blowing steam over your moot argument. Heck, your argument is so moot military boy that even you don't buy it - but are here BSing around on this important matter.

In case you don't realize it, people of Pakistan now think their army is a joke, go and put that in your pipe.
This is your legacy. Bunch of jokers.

 

[iPhone]

As a matter of fact now I'm thinking that Indians should come and grab whoever they want too. First it was the Americans who came and got their man. Then the Taliban came and got their men, And not just once but twice. So what's stopping the Indians from coming and getting Hafeez Saeed?

If an ill-equipped guerrilla force of cave-dwellers can do it twice, then why can't an Army with modern weaponry? I invite the Indians to launch an operation into Pakistan for their wanted man. If I were an Indian army general and saw this happening in the enemy camp, I wouldn't waste a night.

Rest assured no action or retaliation will take place. All that talk of Nuclear confrontation is hogus-pogus. You want that guy? Come and get him, you wont get an easier opportunity. It's like taking candy from a baby. Baby cries at first and then becomes oblivious and goes quiet.

 

[Areesh]

so u mean sunni didnt die yet? or person is dead only consider when he is form minority.


hats off to you buddy. feel like ur from minority too

I know sunnis have died too. But the way shias have been targeted specifically in Pakistan. It is a matter of shame for all us Pakistanis. Even worst is our indifference towards this massacre. Simply shameful to say the least.

And I am not a shia but a sunni. A pretty satisfied one with his beliefs and sect. But for me too I am feeling ashamed of what is happening with shias of Pakistan.

 

[Areesh]

@F.O.X @Leader @Areesh @Major Sam Lets act a little sane here. It was failure on both sides. KPK Govt was informed about exact day of attack and they were advised to get help from Army, they should have accepted it considering the level of their police force, but sadly they refused and all this happened.

On the other hand, what our Intel Agencies and Army did? They informed KPK Govt and when they refused, what did Intel / Army did then? Nothing?? Even though I admit that KPK Govt failed to handle situation in DI Khan, but its not digestible how a convoy of 150 militants set off from Waziristan (which is highly militarized with lots of check posts everywhere) and after 4 hours travel, it reaches DI Khan, do the battle there, then accommodate about 250 prisoners with them and goes back to waziristan safe and sound..

Lets say, if KPK Govt was not interested in taking care of the issue or was not willing to involve Army into it. Why Army didn't take care of those militants in FATA at first place? Why Army let all those militants to pass through and enter into KPK, and again didn't bother to intercept them while they were going back to FATA?? Don't you think if Army was willing to intercept these terrorists and since they had the intel why it didn't happen? Especially in FATA where Army is completely independent from any political interferences?? These are a few big questions which we can't ignore.

PS: I'm not here to defend KPK Govt, they did a blundewr here. But it was all KPK Govt's fault, Army did her part..

I have already admitted that KPK govt also shares the blame to some extent. I have not completely absolved them of all the blames and the responsibility. But the major blame for this attack goes to intelligence agencies and the army. And no petty justification can change that. I am tired of stupid justifications by the army apologists. Nobody wants to answer the question that are arise in the minds of me and other Pakistanis. And with all this confusion and question left unanswered, these army fans want us to support army in this WOT. How can you expect people to support you with all this confusion. When people are forced to think that army itself is involved in dera like attacks and wanted to release those terrorists. How can we have consensus on WOT.

People say we are not winning this war because we have no consensus on this war. I say we have no consensus because people have no trust in army and establishment of this country. There lies and double games have left us with nothing but confusion. Either some heads should roll in army and army comes forward to answer all the questions regarding this attack and WOT or else we might have another successful bannu or DI Khan attack or Mehran base or GHQ attack in the making in the next few months or even weeks.

@Areesh see how F.O.X is making sideway arguments instead of answering specific question you raised? Let's ask this gentleman some more questions, let's see if he really remain to the point this time


* Terrorists were wearing NVG and they cut off the electricity before commencing the attack, Prison guards only had AK47, failure of higher who didn't provided proper equipment, So do you expect if there were 150 prison guards they would not have been over runned by such brutal attack, do 200 prison guards if they were on duty at that time were trained to fight in dark without NVG's??

*150 terrorists attacked prison with RPG-7 and heavy weapons and overwhelmed the prison security. There is the failure of Police officials who didn't kept check on prison security and is it failure of PTI government or failure of Army check posts who let them through ?

* When Call for reinforcements were made, despite Army garrison at 5-10 mint walk away, why didn't they reached there on time? Is it failure of PTI government?

* Where were army check posts in b/w S.Waziristan and D.I.Khan when terrorists moved back to FATA after attacking prison?

Well I am not surprised either. These army fans still think ISI as the best intelligence agency in the world and PA as the best and the most professional military in the world even after what has happened in the past few years. They are delusional just like that red hat idiot Zaid Hamid. They won't answer any of your questions but would expect you to support army in this WOT drama.