Proposal: Ceramic coatings/replacement for JF-17 engine blades

[CriticalThought]

Innocent question: Is our MRO infrastructure for RD-93 capable enough that we could independently replace engine blades with ceramic ones? Obviously this presumes availability of such ceramics on the first place.

Thus could have multiple advantages in weight reduction, which leads to better maneuverability, higher top speed, and maybe even reduction of radar and heat signature. Thoughts?

 

[Ultimate Weapon]

Do we have MRO Facility for RD-93?

I don't think so.....

 

[war&peace]

Innocent question: Is our MRO infrastructure for RD-93 capable enough that we could independently replace engine blades with ceramic ones? Obviously this presumes availability of such ceramics on the first place.

Thus could have multiple advantages in weight reduction, which leads to better maneuverability, higher top speed, and maybe even reduction of radar and heat signature. Thoughts?

It is a good suggestion

 

[CriticalThought]

It is a good suggestion

In general, these are hopefully low cost avenues of research that involve tinkering around with whatever we already have, but the benefits are exponential, both in terms of performance of our weapons systems, and our grasp of latest technologies.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Innocent question: Is our MRO infrastructure for RD-93 capable enough that we could independently replace engine blades with ceramic ones? Obviously this presumes availability of such ceramics on the first place.

Thus could have multiple advantages in weight reduction, which leads to better maneuverability, higher top speed, and maybe even reduction of radar and heat signature. Thoughts?

do you have several billion pounds laying idle in a swiss bank account to invest in such technologies?
and can you persuade pakistan to wait several years for the tech to be ready and implemented?

 

[CriticalThought]

do you have several billion pounds laying idle in a swiss bank account to invest in such technologies?
and can you persuade pakistan to wait several years for the tech to be ready and implemented?

No need to dramatize this. Coatings are old technology, although still very costly

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2003/Superalloys/coatings/

The point is, with ToT or indigenous 'tinkering', we may be able to drastically reduce the cost.

Fully ceramic blades is cutting edge technology

http://www.geaviation.com/press/military/military_20150210.html

But since ACM Sohail Aman's vision is to have an aeronautical university in the long run, we should look into starting research in these directions. I for one don't believe in waiting for a university to start before research can happen.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Are you serious? you know what is the most critical and complex part in a jet engine? Making ceramic blades is a low cost avenue?

In general, these are hopefully low cost avenues of research that involve tinkering around with whatever we already have, but the benefits are exponential, both in terms of performance of our weapons systems, and our grasp of latest technologies.

 

[CriticalThought]

Are you serious? you know what is the most critical and complex part in a jet engine? Making ceramic blades is a low cost avenue?

It would help if you go through the entire thread before you comment.

 

[messiach]

This is un-achievable w/o turbine development facility. We had one attempt in 2004-5, the PC1 was turned down on 'flimsy grounds' by federal 'baboos' and MoD representatives. No commitment exist shamelessly & dependence on foreign sources will continue.

 

[araz]

This is un-achievable w/o turbine development facility. We had one attempt in 2004-5, the PC1 was turned down on 'flimsy grounds' by federal 'baboos' and MoD representatives. No commitment exist shamelessly & dependence on foreign sources will continue.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the project and the objections raised?
A

 

[messiach]

Long story. It needs a commitment like Chinese. Ours govt's are corrupted weekend warriors.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the project and the objections raised?
A

 

[araz]

Long story. It needs a commitment like Chinese. Ours govt's are corrupted weekend warriors.

Thaat statement did not answer my question but skirted around the issue. So once again can you teach us something about the proposal and the objections raised and the realistic outcome projections.
Regards
A

 

[messiach]

OK. PC1 are archived with the federal archives of 04-05 in Isl. Some parts should be accessible after ten years.
Initial estimated cost was 25 mil USD. It was thought out as a collaboration with NDC-Nescom. One of the objectives were to develop dual purpose (civil and mil) turbines of various categories. Another aim was to develop fab-tech backbone - as a collaborative work under Nescom. It was dropped, one objection was the complexity of the project, lack of short term benefits, Nescom overstretched resources & issues with overlap.

Thaat statement did not answer my question but skirted around the issue. So once again can you teach us something about the proposal and the objections raised and the realistic outcome projections.
Regards
A

 

[war&peace]

It is not impossible but very very difficult to it right..Let's me explain a little bit. Gas turbines / jet engines are operating at thousands of RPMs and the instability modes can set in due a slight mistuning can excite it and soon it can transform into a standing wave and can destroy the system..so very high precision is required to make a thin layer..but no doubt through proper R&D, JV.. it can be accomplished but the hardest part is to convince your establishment to invest money in this project.

Though mistuning is also used to suppress certain modes in a careful that's whole different topic and out of the scope of this forum.

 

[Syed1.]

We need General Electric, Pratt & Whitney or Rolce Royce to set up an engine manufacturing facility in Pakistan, that is the easiest and quickest way of developing the know-how of building and altering engines.