Proposal: Ceramic coatings/replacement for JF-17 engine blades

[Ultima Thule]

We need General Electric, Pratt & Whitney or Rolce Royce to set up an engine manufacturing facility in Pakistan, that is the easiest and quickest way of developing the know-how of building and altering engines.

 

[CriticalThought]

The thing is, it aligns with the ACM's vision of indigenous production of Gen 5+ technologies. My point is, we shouldn't wait for the new uni to be established in order to research these areas. The uni can simply continue the good work already started.

 

[Blue Marlin]

OK. PC1 are archived with the federal archives of 04-05 in Isl. Some parts should be accessible after ten years.
Initial estimated cost was 25 mil USD. It was thought out as a collaboration with NDC-Nescom. One of the objectives were to develop dual purpose (civil and mil) turbines of various categories. Another aim was to develop fab-tech backbone - as a collaborative work under Nescom. It was dropped, one objection was the complexity of the project, lack of short term benefits, Nescom overstretched resources & issues with overlap.

what about such facilities for cruise missile engines?, ok they may only have a otu but does Pakistan have the ability to reverse engineer the al-222?

 

[CriticalThought]

what about such facilities for cruise missile engines?, ok they may only have a otu but does Pakistan have the ability to reverse engineer the al-222?

From what I have seen on the internet (and the source is not authentic at all) they have bought and stored the engines from multiple countries.

At some point though, the will definitely need indigenous production to control various parameters such a stealth, speed, distance etc.

 

[Blue Marlin]

From what I have seen on the internet (and the source is not authentic at all) they have bought and stored the engines from multiple countries.

At some point though, the will definitely need indigenous production to control various parameters such a stealth, speed, distance etc.

if its not authentic then its just some pakistani 5 year old with a laptop fantasising about it on the internet.
but im sure they can get there hands on the pw f100-229eep from israel backhand if they wanted to.

 

[CriticalThought]

Here is my idea. Before we go for engine design, let us first obtain indigenous production and machining of the alloys and various materials.

Next, we already have expertise in high speed rotational stability from centrifuge work. We need to leverage that knowledge for the first prototype of a basic jet engine.

As we drive up the rotations, we will need higher precision machining to control the airflow. More stages and a compressor can then be added gradually.

EDIT: The above bottom up approach should be combined with acquiring MRO facilities for RD-93. Actually, I am pretty sure we already have this infrastructure, because the French MOU was for electrical harnesses on hot areas of the engine. We just need to keep expanding on this.

At some point the fundamental research will meet the top down MRO capability. From there it will be a matter of time only.

Of course in order to predict the airflows we will need super-computing facilities as well...

 

[Awan68]

We need General Electric, Pratt & Whitney or Rolce Royce to set up an engine manufacturing facility in Pakistan, that is the easiest and quickest way of developing the know-how of building and altering engines.

Why dont we just move lockheed martin hq's to pakistan, than we can make f 22's and ban their sale to the Us

 

[The SC]

This is the closest technology related to the title of the thread, namely: Ceramic Matrix Composites (CMC) Material

Characteristic of this material (CMC = Ceramic Matrix Composites) is the matrix made of a ceramic material embedded between the fibres. Typical fibrous materials include carbon, silicon carbide, aluminium oxide and mullite. Aluminium oxide, zirconium oxide and silicon carbide are chiefly used as matrix components. CMC terminology is based on the principle “Fibre type/Matrix type” (e.g. “C/SiC” for carbon fibre reinforced silicon carbide). This designation frequently precedes the production methods which are usually realised in three steps.

Ceramic matrix composites have had a stormy development wherever the combination of breakage resistance and strength of conventional technical ceramics such as aluminium oxide, silicon carbide or zirconium oxide prove inadequate. Because even small production errors or scratches on the surface of conventional ceramics can lead to cracks forming, their use in many applications had always been impossible. Only the embedding of fibres proved capable of increasing the resistance to cracks and ductility, breakage strength and thermal shock resistance, sometimes drastically. Typical applications are brake disks in the automotive industry, emergency rail systems for the Transrapid, emergency running systems for rapidly rotating machines or friction pads for clutches.

Nevertheless,

Ceramic matrix composites (CMCs) are a breakthrough materials technology for jet engines
What’s so innovative about CMCs is that they can be made as strong as metal, yet are much lighter and can withstand much higher temperatures. These advantages will help us lower fuel burn and emissions, while increasing the efficiency of future GE aircraft engine platforms.

GE’s CMCs can operate at temperatures exceeding the capability of current nickel alloys typically used in high-pressure turbines. Today’s metal parts require extensive dedicated cooling air. This directly takes away from the primary engine airflow and reduces efficiency. CMCs can operate with little or no cooling, providing a significant efficiency boost to the cycle. CMCs also are one-third the weight of nickel.

With more than 20 years of experience, GE has taken CMCs from the lab to robust, cost-effective manufacturing. GE Aviation already has a CMC manufacturing facility in Newark, Delaware, and more recently announced plans to build an advanced composite component factory near Asheville, North Carolina, to produce CMC components. CMCs deliver a truly revolutionary leap in temperature capability beyond any advanced metal alloy. (See chart.)

CMC durability has been validated through significant testing in customer gas turbine engines accumulating almost 30,000 hours of operation. CMCs will play a key role in the performance of CFM’s LEAP turbofan engine (pictured). Entry into service begins in 2016 for the Airbus A320neo and 2017 for the Boeing 737max.

http://www.geglobalresearch.com/innovation/ceramic-matrix-composites-improve-engine-efficiency
http://www.geglobalresearch.com/innovation/ceramic-matrix-composites-improve-engine-efficiency
In brief, this is a new and a breakthrough technology for the future..

 

[CriticalThought]

In brief, this is a new and a breakthrough technology for the future..

Exactly why we should be interested in it now.

 

[Syed1.]

Why dont we just move lockheed martin hq's to pakistan, than we can make f 22's and ban their sale to the Us

Then keep sitting because Pakistanis are never going to learn how to build a jet engine on their own, unless someone teaches them.

 

[CriticalThought]

Then keep sitting because Pakistanis are never going to learn how to build a jet engine on their own, unless someone teaches them.

Let's not adopt a defeatist attitude. If you think you can't do it, you have already lost the battle.

 

[Awan68]

Then keep sitting because Pakistanis are never going to learn how to build a jet engine on their own, unless someone teaches them.

O bhai mery we will get chinese assistance when need be in developing a jet engine and we can get chinese or ukranian help in developing tank engines, maybe with how things are shaping up in the geopolitical arena, somwhere down the road we can even get russian assistance, but american and british companies will never share their engine tech with pakistan, not a chance even if hell freezes over, get it.

 

[CriticalThought]

Another point to note is that a propulsion system also ties with indigenous development of miniaturized nuclear reactor core for submarines. Albeit the materials used at sea would be very different to materials used in an aircraft, but the general prowess in the physics of propulsion will definitely be a great help.

 

[The SC]

Exactly why we should be interested in it now.

Well, I do agree with you, since if even just those highly sophisticated parts are made, there is a potential of making tons of money with them in the future while continuing R&D on other parts till the whole project aim is achieved..
Also, high tech will bring high tech ToT, if you share it with your partners they will also share, Thus the project time can be shortened..

 

[CriticalThought]

Well, I do agree with you, since if even just those highly sophisticated parts are made, there is a potential of making tons of money with them in the future while continuing R&D on other parts till the whole project aim is achieved..
Also, high tech will bring high tech ToT, if you share it with your partners they will also share, Thus the project time can be shortened..

So much of our technological prowess is hidden, people ask questions such as 'What would Pakistan bring to the NSG?' Or, 'A country that can not make its own assault rife wants to develop a fighter jet'. They don't realize that because of limited resources, we dedicate our efforts to top priority national security projects. But where we do invest our resources, Alhamdulillah we excel.

These types of advanced materials should be pursued simply to advance our industrial base, with applications in civilian technology. That would give us a standing in the world, and later, it can also be put to military use as well.