Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India

[glomex]

No Dossier handed over by Pakistan.....

India today refuted the claims made by Pakistan media claiming that a dossier regarding RAW's involvement in terrorist activities in Pakistan being handed over to India. Offecials said the reports floating are baseless.

CNN-IBN

 

[Watani]

Whatever is happening between India-Pakistan is what they know themselves better and know better solutions, but I fail to understand one thing here:

India despite of being world's fastest growing economic country, despite of having one of the best educations in the world, despite of doing one of the best business in the world and despite of having very intelligent people as well; Then how the HELL can they be THAT stupid to keep attacking Pakistan in first place, and leave evidence of every single 'attack' afterwards? And then Pakistani government finding the evidence just in few days but cannot 'prevent' anything in the future?

This can only mean three things; Either Pakistani government is extremely cunning and smart for being able to catch every single 'mistake' of India within days. Either India is extremely stupid and 'lame terrorists' by leaving evidence every single day. Or either Pakistani government is not only fooling Pakistan but also themselves.

 

[notsuperstitious]

No dossier was handed over as per Indian govt. Has GOP said they have handed over any dossier? I don't think so.

What are we discussing?

 

[wtf]

I don't think its a summons, its a request for a meeting - though the GoI does not know quite how to handle this since it makes it easy to look like a summons if the RAW chief travels to Pakistan for a meeting.

One option I have read about in the ToI article is meeting in a third country, but the fact that the meeting comes after the Egypt joint statement that included Baluchistan plus the Dawn disclosures on the dossier Pakistan shared with India, might make a meeting between the RAW and ISI heads anywhere a bit of a PR disaster now that Pakistan floated the suggestion first.

Hopefully MMS will look beyond the PR and allow the meeting to go forward since the two agencies are the ones being accused directly or indirectly.

IIRC, B Raman wrote that such a meeting in the past resulted in India cutting off support for terrorists in Sindh, in return for support on the Khalistan front. So who knows, perhaps something can be worked out here as well.

Another issue seems to be (atleast from Indian reports) that the ISI chief asked for his "counterpart" in India. There is apparently no direct counterpart for ISI chief in India since RAW is organized differently in the political/military hierarchy. Wonder if they'll send a politician/diplomat instead ?

That said, I always wondered what Pakistan was doing by bringing Balochistan into the joint statement. If my guess is right, Pakistan is being pretty brilliant here (Earlier I assumed it was a strange move).

Now seems like a case of specifying (asking for) something that India can "give up" instead of Pakistan making changes in its own positions. That way both sides don't feel hurt when things change. India can happily ignore Balochistan and Pakistan can give up "something" -- may be the "something" is for Pakistan to just say "we don't support terrorists" or maybe it is a more substantial change in policy. We'll see where this goes. Of course, it might be just a "you are as bad as us" or "you guys are so bad, you should be thanking us for even talking to you" move, but that seems pretty strange considering that Pakistan has not taken any evidence to outsiders.

BTW, reading more about the dossier it seems to be a mixture of old and new. The pictures of Indian diplomats and Balochi seperatists was something Musharraf talked about -- they were taken in Europe in some sort of a Balochi conference. The pics were on the internet at some point. The remaining ones, about Indian agents moving into Pakistan might be either exposed spies (take 'em back or we'll get 'em) or real. Funding terrorists is pretty underhanded -- if that was true, it should really have been in the foreign media.

Anyway, pure speculation (on my part) until either 1) Both parties make the next move or 2) The dossier gets leaked.

 

[wtf]

Whatever is happening between India-Pakistan is what they know themselves better and know better solutions, but I fail to understand one thing here:

India despite of being world's fastest growing economic country, despite of having one of the best educations in the world, despite of doing one of the best business in the world and despite of having very intelligent people as well; Then how the HELL can they be THAT stupid to keep attacking Pakistan in first place, and leave evidence of every single 'attack' afterwards? And then Pakistani government finding the evidence just in few days but cannot 'prevent' anything in the future?

This can only mean three things; Either Pakistani government is extremely cunning and smart for being able to catch every single 'mistake' of India within days. Either India is extremely stupid and 'lame terrorists' by leaving evidence every single day. Or either Pakistani government is not only fooling Pakistan but also themselves.

The Sri Lankan attack comment was from Dawn (and the Ahmed Qureishi dude) .

So far Pakistani politicians/diplomats have talked about Balochi insurgency and India, but not Taliban and India. Neither have they actually said how much involved India is. The only real "official" comment was from Musharraf when he was the president (after they killed Akbar Bugti) and those did not seem to amount to "support for terrorism".

 

[TaimiKhan]

Whatever is happening between India-Pakistan is what they know themselves better and know better solutions, but I fail to understand one thing here:

India despite of being world's fastest growing economic country, despite of having one of the best educations in the world, despite of doing one of the best business in the world and despite of having very intelligent people as well; Then how the HELL can they be THAT stupid to keep attacking Pakistan in first place, and leave evidence of every single 'attack' afterwards? And then Pakistani government finding the evidence just in few days but cannot 'prevent' anything in the future?

This can only mean three things; Either Pakistani government is extremely cunning and smart for being able to catch every single 'mistake' of India within days. Either India is extremely stupid and 'lame terrorists' by leaving evidence every single day. Or either Pakistani government is not only fooling Pakistan but also themselves.

Watani, if you look at the history of allegation whenever something happens in india, within 5 minutes of the incident India starts blaming Pakistan, this is their way of doing, they blamed us for many things, in the end the culprits are in their own country even sometimes the hindus are themselves involed, eg Malegon & Samjhota Express blasts. Plus the gujrat riots, babri mosques demolition & killing of muslims, kashmiri peoples killing etc are other examples of indians hatred against Muslims. (these are facts, kindly no indian to post a ridiculous reply)
As for Pakistan, we don't blame india straight away for what happens in pakistan. After thorough investigation & with proofs we had in the past and also now accuse india if they are involved in something. Swat & Balochistan & this baitullah mehsud issues when started, we blamed nobody at the time, but with the passage of time when the dots were started to connect, then the indian involvement directly or indirectly started to come forward, and now we accuse india, hav ing proof in hand.

As for our intelligence agencies, they are among the best ones. ISI was the same agency who in 87 stole the complete battle plan of the indian misadventure towards pakistan, Brasstacks was the exercise name, which secretly was a plan to invade Pakistan, but we had their battle plan, and when the indian forces reached the border, PA was ready and deployed at the exact spots from where indian armour was to launch the pincer movements.
So we aren't as dumbs as indians to accuse before even thinking for a second.

 

[glomex]

Watani, if you look at the history of allegation whenever something happens in india, within 5 minutes of the incident India starts blaming Pakistan, this is their way of doing, they blamed us for many things, in the end the culprits are in their own country even sometimes the hindus are themselves involed, eg Malegon & Samjhota Express blasts. Plus the gujrat riots, babri mosques demolition & killing of muslims, kashmiri peoples killing etc are other examples of indians hatred against Muslims. (these are facts, kindly no indian to post a ridiculous reply)
As for Pakistan, we don't blame india straight away for what happens in pakistan. After thorough investigation & with proofs we had in the past and also now accuse india if they are involved in something. Swat & Balochistan & this baitullah mehsud issues when started, we blamed nobody at the time, but with the passage of time when the dots were started to connect, then the indian involvement directly or indirectly started to come forward, and now we accuse india, hav ing proof in hand.

As for our intelligence agencies, they are among the best ones. ISI was the same agency who in 87 stole the complete battle plan of the indian misadventure towards pakistan, Brasstacks was the exercise name, which secretly was a plan to invade Pakistan, but we had their battle plan, and when the indian forces reached the border, PA was ready and deployed at the exact spots from where indian armour was to launch the pincer movements.
So we aren't as dumbs as indians to accuse before even thinking for a second.

You asked for it........Well thats the crap that has been fed to all Pakistani Students fron day One they enter Pakistani Education System.....Just like the crap is fed to India students when they enter India education system.......may be a bit less here in India...but yes it is fed....from very childhood...

If Pakistanis hating India is OK...Then whats wrong with Indians Hating Pakistan.......

Its give and take....fair exchange...

You blame India(Without any proof)...we blame Pakistan(with Proofs in Place)....whats new.....

 

[Su 30mki]

You asked for it........Well thats the crap that has been fed to all Pakistani Students fron day One they enter Pakistani Education System.....Just like the crap is fed to India students when they enter India education system.......may be a bit less here in India...but yes it is fed....from very childhood...

If Pakistanis hating India is OK...Then whats wrong with Indians Hating Pakistan.......

Its give and take....fair exchange...

You blame India(Without any proof)...we blame Pakistan(with Proofs in Place)....whats new.....

Nice said.....

 

[Zulfiqar]

You asked for it........Well thats the crap that has been fed to all Pakistani Students fron day One they enter Pakistani Education System.....Just like the crap is fed to India students when they enter India education system.......may be a bit less here in India...but yes it is fed....from very childhood...

If Pakistanis hating India is OK...Then whats wrong with Indians Hating Pakistan.......

Its give and take....fair exchange...

You blame India(Without any proof)...we blame Pakistan(with Proofs in Place)....whats new

What proof, we asked more questions regarding some of the "evidence" and you haven't replied yet.


Killing of Pakistanis by hindu militant group,killing of muslims by hindus, destruction of Babri mosque are Facts and not some made up story and written in text books.

 

[glomex]

What proof, we asked more questions regarding some of the "evidence" and you haven't replied yet.

Well your country took More than Couple of months to reply to Indian Dossier..don't you think India deserves some time to review Pakistan's Mumbai Dossier handed over a week back and then reply.....Now that the ball is in Our court....you people are making hue and cry ...in just a weeks time..that we are delaying.... and what about the time your GOP took to reply to Mumbai Dossier.

Killing of Pakistanis by hindu militant group,.

The so called Samjhauta blast....that occurred India and Indians also got killed in that....

Killing of muslims by hindus,

Who started it...Muslims burnt 2 Bogies of trains full of Hindus....so Muslim Sins don't count.........right....

destruction of Babri mosque are Facts and not some made up story and written in text books.

Done by some fanatics ...and Just like Talibani Muslim Destroyed Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan......and In 2006, the last Hindu temple in Lahore was destroyed to pave the way for construction of a multi-storied commercial building. The temple was demolished after officials of the Evacuee Property Trust Board concealed facts from the board chairman about the nature of the building. When reporters from Pakistan-based newspaper Dawn tried to cover the incident, they were accosted by the henchmen of the property developer, who denied that a Hindu temple existed at the site.

Several political parties in Pakistan have objected to this move, such as the Pakistan People’s party and the Pakistani Muslim League-N. The move has also evoked strong condemnation in India from minority bodies and political parties, including the Muslim advocacy political parties such as the All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat. A firm of lawyers representing the Hindu minority has approached the Lahore High Court seeking a directive to the builders to stop the construction of the commercial plaza and reconstruct the temple at the site. The petitioners maintain that the demolition violates section 295 of the Pakistan Penal Code prohibiting the demolition of places of worship....

.....but...Muslims don't count the atrocities they commit on others...do they...

 

[Zulfiqar]

The so called Samjhauta blast....that occurred India and Indians also got killed in that

So does it even the score?

Done by some fanatics

Some fanatics or those supported by RSS and alike not properly brought to justice. What does Bamiyan have to do with India?

Who started it...Muslims burnt 2 Boggies of trains full of Hindus....so Muslim Sins don't count.........right

Instead of putting the perpetrators to justice,modi looks the other way and you kill more.
The Bannerjee Panel and others call it a conspiracy.

I am not even quoting Kashmir where you have hundreds of thousands of paramilitaries suppressing the population and killing GOD knows how many.Discussing that will call for one hundred page thread.

 

[glomex]

So does it even the score?

But it tells you that the people who masterminded the blast had nothing to do with India or Pakistan...they were terrorists and they caused casualties on both sides.... why shout that India did it....

Some fanatics or those supported by RSS and alike not properly brought to justice. What does Bamiyan have to do with India?

Just like Fanatics have always had support from some Organization ...so in India it may be RSS at that time.......

That was an example of Muslim atrocities on other religion.......just to tell you that Muslims are not the only victims...they too commit crime......

Lets change the example for your comfort....
October 16, 2000
A mob comprising more than 5,000 Muslim clerics has put on fire and destroyed a Hindu temple and torched several houses after an attack at Dalbandin area on October 8. Independent sources said a temple and at least nine houses at a Hindu locality were torched by over 5,000 strong mob when they came to know that four Hindus had distributed “prasad” (sweet] wrapped in pages allegedly torn from Quran. The sources said the mob armed with batons sprinkled kerosene oil and torched the temple and the houses. However, no loss of life was reported. The Dalbandin police said four Hindus have been taken into custody.

Dalbandin is 340 kms from Quetta, provincial capital of Balochistan. The authorities tried to convince the protesters that only a completely illiterate woman was found to be distributing “prasad” in a paper torn from a religious curriculum book named “Deeniyat” and not Quran. The authorities claimed that they tried to convince that the Hindu woman, being illiterate, had no idea that she was distributing the prasad wrapped in an Islamic curriculum book. But the mob, carrying batons, refused to be pacified. They sprinkled kerosene oil and torched the temple and the houses. No loss of life was reported. The temple, however, was completely destroyed.

I am not even quoting Kashmir where you have hundreds of thousands of paramilitaries suppressing the population and killing GOD knows how many.Discussing that will call for one hundred page thread.

Here you you are forgetting that Kashmiri Hindus were killed by Muslim Terrorists.........By the way 65000 People have died in Kashmir conflict ..which Includes People killed by Muslim Terrorists and Some killed in Army action......

Its not the army stationed in Kashmir...Its called Central Reserve Police force (CRPF)...and they have to stay there because Muslim terrorists always keep them busy....India relaxed CRPF petrolling for a week and the terrorists killed more last week....

 

[Zulfiqar]

Here you you are forgetting that Kashmiri Hindus were killed by Muslim Terrorists.........By the way 65000 People have died in Kashmir conflict ..which Includes People killed by Muslim Terrorists and Some killed in Army action.

Muslim terrorists or freedom fighters who are yearning for the freedom since 1947. You are welcome here to post but do not impose the propaganda of "muslim terrorists" on us.

I specifically wrote paramilitaries not military.

I can quote a dozen incident like the babri mosque and you can quote others here.But the fact remains that you have killed more and not every thing is a lie in our text books.

 

[glomex]

Muslim terrorists or freedom fighters who are yearning for the freedom since 1947. You are welcome here to post but do not impose the propaganda of "muslim terrorists" on us.

I specifically wrote paramilitaries not military.

I can quote a dozen incident like the babri mosque and you can quote others here.But the fact remains that you have killed more and not every thing is a lie in our text books.

Never heard of Freedom fighters Killing innocent Civilians....

For example...here are some great deeds done by your so called freedom fighters.....

Fact sheet Of Atrocities On Kashmiri Pandits

Educational Institutions burnt, damaged forcefully occupied : 105

Religious & Cultural Institutions Destroyed/burnt, damaged : 103

Shops, Factories looted/burnt/occupied : 14,430

Agriculture dependent families deprived of their land and source of income : 20,000

Horticulture dependent families deprived of their resource : 12,500

Houses Burnt : more than 20,000

Houses looted : 95%

Torture killings of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley : more than 1,100




Now you can claim that they are yearning for Fredome ...how by killing Innocent Humans....

 

[Zulfiqar]

And how can you prove that your own agencies were not involved in some of these actions in order to give a bad name to freedom fighters.You have bought mullahs here in NWFP,you can buy mullahs there too.

Even if a particular group did something,it still does not hide the fact that a majority of the groups are fighting for the rights of kashmiri muslims.Why don't you quote the atrocities of indian forces in kashmir? These atrocities give a reason to those groups(which i don't support) who kill the pundits and give a bad name to the freedom struggle.