Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[qsaark]

qsaark , This is the forum wherin we are involved in discussion. You are mixing two separate topics. There are several threads on BD. Do not mix two topics.

My opinion on Pakistan sending terrorist completely changed when I saw it live in India. My perception was totally different when I was in US.

Believe me you will never find India Kasab because India does not indulge in such activities.

Don’t get upset. All I am saying is, India has been “indulged in such activities” in the past and if it is still doing it, I will not be surprised. Pakistan has been doing the same from 1948 so we are not standing on high moral pedestal too. This is not unusual that the two adversaries (not enemies) try to out do each other and all these things are kind of a norm in the international politics. However, it would not be realistic to assume that any one country is simply not involved in such dirty geo-political games. This is a good and in fact desirable thing to think about or wish for, but actually it is far from the reality.

 

[Vassnti]

That's actually more or less how they proved involvement of Pakistani militants in Mumbai attacks.

Actually i thought the best proof were the phone intercepts. If you get a chance listen to them some time it gives you an insight into the sick minds behind bombing every where. No matter what country they might be living in these people are not Pakistani or Indian they left humanity and nationality long behind them along with their sanity.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

No, what stops is the eunuch politicians of Pakistan. I know for a fact that even before this, there was a undeniable proof of indian involvement including pictures. Why they never went to public - I believe it's due to US pressure. It's against US interests to do so and US has done immoral things that were in its interest before and no reason why it can't do again.

But blaming your own politicians is a cop out, an easy and convenient cop out.

Perhaps the politicians never went public because there was no proof? Or, if there is proof, then why can't the Pakistani Army take it up and take it all the way? I know that they are not 'in power' but they are a pretty powerful institution are they not?

To accept the argument that no state authority (government, army, etc), no leader, no institution in Pakistan is able to provide proof because of US pressure, is a pretty hard to do.

On another note, the US has invested billions in Pakistan. Forget friendship and the usual high sounding rhetoric that nations use, regardless of their unstated intent, it does not make sense that the US would let India get away if we were effectively sabotaging their own efforts.

 

[Goodperson]

Don’t get upset. All I am saying is, India has been “indulged in such activities” in the past and if it is still doing it, I will not be surprised. Pakistan has been doing the same from 1948 so we are not standing on high moral pedestal too. This is not unusual that the two adversaries (not enemies) try to out do each other and all these things are kind of a norm in the international politics. However, it would not be realistic to assume that any one country is simply not involved in such dirty geo-political games. This is a good and in fact desirable thing to think about or wish for, but actually it is far from the reality.

You are mixing Topics, You will find your answers here.

An insurgency swells, but Pakistan focuses on India - The Boston Globe

October 20, 2009

 

[RPK]

India rubbishes allegations of fomenting trouble in Pak - Yahoo! India News

New Delhi, Nov 3 (PTI) India today rubbished Pakistan''s allegations that it was fomenting trouble in the neighbouring country, saying it has nothing to do with their internal developments which are of "their own making". "We have absolutely nothing to do with whatever is happening in Balochistan or whatever is happening within Pakistan.

I think it is their own making," External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said. The Minister was of the view that there is "total confusion" in Pakistan and that he did not think that there is any effective government functioning there.

Krishna''s comments come against the backdrop of Pakistan''s claims that its security forces had seized Indian-made arms and equipment from the Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan, where the Army has launched a major operation to flush out the militants. Pakistan Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira and chief military spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas yesterday said that troops had recovered "Indian arms, ammunition, literature and medical equipment" from Sherwangi, a key militant base that was captured a few days ago.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik had recently alleged that India was supplying arms to Taliban militants.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You are mixing Topics, You will find your answers here.

An insurgency swells, but Pakistan focuses on India - The Boston Globe

October 20, 2009

I think he is pointing out precedent for Indian support for insurgents/terrorists in the past (in East Pakistan for example, LTTE would be another), to counter your claim that 'India does not engage in such activities', and his argument is valid.

As EIG pointed out, neither side has been innocent in such activities.

 

[Bullhead]

This is a fake image... Created with help of Rudimentary MS Paint.

Look closely "Indian Ammo" is Pasted onto original tag in the picture with shoddy work Visible along the bolder Alphabets.

By The way ...Do you know that "88 MM HE" is also used By American army..

Here is a report talking about a test done on the same rocket: 82MM HE Cartridge, HE, Model 30, with PD Fuze, Model MP-1B, 3 Per Box United Nations (UN) Performance Oriented Packaging (POP) Test - Storming Media


And Look at the top Right in the photograph...the Ammo lying there

Chinese Markings...........Hmmmm

So this is how they write Made in India in Chinese.

 

[TaimiKhan]

This is a fake image... Created with help of Rudimentary MS Paint.

Look closely "Indian Ammo" is Pasted onto original tag in the picture with shoddy work Visible along the bolder Alphabets.

By The way ...Do you know that 88 MM HE Rocket is also used By American army..

Here is a report talking about a test done on the same rocket: 82MM HE Cartridge, HE, Model 30, with PD Fuze, Model MP-1B, 3 Per Box United Nations (UN) Performance Oriented Packaging (POP) Test - Storming Media

Bullhead, this is not a MS paint job and pasted to the picture, the Indian Ammo has been written on a card and has been placed in front of the ammo, just like the name cards you see in conferences being places at the table in front of the person who is gonna sit on that seat. Look the the series of the picture from another angle and you will see the same mortars with the tag card placed in front of it on the ground.

 

[TaimiKhan]

This is a fake image... Created with help of Rudimentary MS Paint.

Look closely "Indian Ammo" is Pasted onto original tag in the picture with shoddy work Visible along the bolder Alphabets.

By The way ...Do you know that "88 MM HE" is also used By American army..

Here is a report talking about a test done on the same rocket: 82MM HE Cartridge, HE, Model 30, with PD Fuze, Model MP-1B, 3 Per Box United Nations (UN) Performance Oriented Packaging (POP) Test - Storming Media


And Look at the top Rith on the photograph...the Ammo lying there

Chinese Markings...........Hmmmm

So this is how they write Made in India in Chinese.View attachment 988383ea713035273d824c50192b3b47.gif

It has Chinese markings that's why it has been placed on the side, not with the mortars shown to be of Indian origin. I believe the rush of Patriotism is making you go

 

[Bullhead]

Bullhead, this is not a MS paint job and pasted to the picture, the Indian Ammo has been written on a card and has been placed in front of the ammo, just like the name cards you see in conferences being places at the table in front of the person who is gonna sit on that seat. Look the the series of the picture from another angle and you will see the same mortars with the tag card placed in front of it on the ground.

Read the edited post again ...

But let me help yoou ...




This is a fake image... Created with help of Rudimentary MS Paint.

Look closely "Indian Ammo" is Pasted onto original tag in the picture with shoddy work Visible along the bolder Alphabets.

By The way ...Do you know that "88 MM HE" is also used By American army..

Here is a report talking about a test done on the same rocket: 82MM HE Cartridge, HE, Model 30, with PD Fuze, Model MP-1B, 3 Per Box United Nations (UN) Performance Oriented Packaging (POP) Test - Storming Media


And Look at the top Right in the photograph...the Ammo lying there

Chinese Markings...........Hmmmm

So this is how they write Made in India in Chinese.


More Info...

Indian OFB makes only 81mm Mortar shells.


82 mm is Russian/PRC mortar caliber to prevent use by forces with 81mm mortars.


http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=A-E-P-C&lang=en#subclass1

 

[Goodperson]

I think he is pointing out precedent for Indian support for insurgents/terrorists in the past (in East Pakistan for example, LTTE would be another), to counter your claim that 'India does not engage in such activities', and his argument is valid.

As EIG pointed out, neither side has been innocent in such activities.

AM their is little doubt about the Pakistani military’s brutal behavior in east Bengal, and an intolerable flow of refugees into India. Millions were hemorrhaging out of East Pakistan.
You could track their columns by the flocks of vultures overhead. The independence for Bangladesh was becoming inevitable. It did not need an Indian invasion. Pakistan was totally blame for it.

LTTE was not created by India, India also has huge Tamil Population they do have strong connection with Srilankan Tamils. Infact LTTE eliminated Rajiv Gandhi for revenge on India for not supporting them.
India had big hand in Srilanka winning the War acknowledge by Srilanka India is silent for obvious reason on the victory.

My suggestion was these are different topics the link I posted has answers on BD and we are discussing about Waziristan.

Anyway I welcome qsaark so that we may be able to clear our misunderstandings.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

offtopic reply to AM.

AM their is not doubt about the Pakistani military’s brutal behavior in east Bengal, and an intolerable flow of refugees into India. Millions were hemorrhaging out of East Pakistan.
You could track their columns by the flocks of vultures overhead. The independence for Bangladesh was becoming inevitable. It did not need an Indian invasion. Pakistan was totally blame for it.

All of which is contested and has been debunked in the thread you referred to as well as the denouncing IG thread.

LTTE was not created by India, India also has huge Tamil Population they do have strong connection with Srilankan Tamils.

There is a thread here with videos and all that show LTTE cadres being trained by India and reports validating the same.

My suggestion was these are different topics the link I posted has answers on BD and we are discussing about Waziristan.

Further discussion on them can indeed continue on those threads and in the case of EP is continuing, but the point remains that Indian support for terrorists and separatists in East Pakistan is fact, before any 'refugee crises' as is their support for the LTTE, though in the latter case it is true that they eventually backed off.

That is the only point being made here, and it is on topic, that there is a precedent of India supporting terrorists and insurgents in the past. If you insist on claiming that 'India does not do such things' then people will obviously raise these issues proving you wrong.

 

[s90]

Great development that PA openly told the media of Indian hand in SW,if India doesnt stop supporting these groups then im afraid peace in Kashmir wont last long.

It was the first time in recent times that Pakistan had pointed fingers at India from a forum having representation of political and military leadership.

Pakistan has found concrete evidence of India’s involvement in militancy in South Waziristan and decided to take up the matter with New Delhi.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Read the edited post again ...

But let me help yoou ...




This is a fake image... Created with help of Rudimentary MS Paint.

Look closely "Indian Ammo" is Pasted onto original tag in the picture with shoddy work Visible along the bolder Alphabets.

I don't really see the PS effect - the words 'Indian Ammo' in fact appear to be printed on a thin rectangular piece of paper that is pasted onto the cardboard base - You can see where the paper strip was not pasted on properly and there is a bulge under the letters 'AMM' in AMMO, and if this was a quickly made PS, such realism would not be evident.

By The way ...Do you know that "88 MM HE" is also used By American army..

Probably, but there are probably other markings indicating the manufacturer of these particular '88 MM HE' that are not evident in the image.

Just because other nations manufacture it does not debunk the PA's claim on the origin of the ammo.

And Look at the top Right in the photograph...the Ammo lying there


Chinese Markings...........Hmmmm

So this is how they write Made in India in Chinese.

That is why the placard that reads 'Indian AMMO' is not in front of the Chinese ammo, and why that ammo is only partially in the image.

Indian OFB makes only 81mm Mortar shells.


82 mm is Russian/PRC mortar caliber to prevent use by forces with 81mm mortars.


Indian Ordnance Factories: Ammunition, Explosives, Propellants & Chemicals

That is the only valid argument you have made so far - a good one to explore further.

But please do so in the thread on this issue.

I am moving those posts over.

 

[PostColonial]

Hmm...I wonder why Pakistan is not blaming China too. I see some Chinese stuff written there.