Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[SQ8]

Please forgive my ignorance, wouldn't 2 WS-10s make more sense if AZM would be a heavy weight fighter? What would be the weight class of AZM according to you?

70000-75000 MTOW.

You are correct and I misstated using the dual ws-10 derivatives when I meant the Chinese equivalent to the RD-93.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Was that post meant for me?

Ops!!!

Are you sure? If I am not wrong, TFX is 5th Gen from start.

Not all 5th gen specs like super cruise etc. can be included in the 1st block. Hence, the prototypes will have the F16 engines from GE.... ​

 

[PakFactor]

Remember that YF23 that we saw in the videos? Turns out that is actually the design being worked on. A design cycle will end by next year, after which foreign partner(s) are being sought for going the rest of the way.

You have screen shot if you can post and tag me please

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You have screen shot if you can post and tag me please

 

[PakFactor]

View attachment 763497

Thanks bhai!

 

[SQ8]

View attachment 763497

If it is the selected design then the focus may not be in sustained turn rates and more on transonic acceleration and instantaneous AoA - also looks like enough space below the airframe for a 2+2 weapons bay(or even a 2+4).

It is likely to have superior LO to most contemporary platforms that may be thought up in the region.

 

[JamD]

IMO...if this comes to pass, then I'd expect to see the PAF order J-10CEs for sure. Even with China as the principal partner, a new original design is going to take a while.

IIRC (and @JamD can correct me) if these kids turn out to be any good, they'll be able to get entry/mid-level jobs in Pakistan. The real trouble starts when they're not good with just chilling but want to drive the industry forward by instituting new ideas and ways of doing things. So they move on.

Theres a lot of good work to be done in Pakistan, but only in the short term. It's career growth where Pakistan gets you. Theres very little growth, and any growth you will see can be undone by some fauji's whim. I have often narrated the story of the member deprived of chairmanship and resigning because some fauji with a bachelors degree and no experience was made chairman. Something that happens on every level and in many places. But this isn't the thread for that sort of thing.

 

[JamD]

If it is the selected design then the focus may not be in sustained turn rates and more on transonic acceleration and instantaneous AoA - also looks like enough space below the airframe for a 2+2 weapons bay(or even a 2+4).

It is likely to have superior LO to most contemporary platforms that may be thought up in the region.

At first I was surprised that they were literally copying the design. Then I was like it's kind of typical Pakistani jugarh genius lol. We've never designed a jet from scratch before, it's best to start from something we know works, albeit without knowing the intricate details. Gives you a good starting point in terms of aerodynamics, shaping for stealth, configuration. Might be a good leapfrogging strategy.

But I wonder(and doubt) if there will be any takers for the "we've got a design, please help us make this" pitch they seem to be planning for. The folks at Azm need to go for a scale demonstrator that they build themselves to convince PAF itself and possible foreign takers.

The original YF-23 was destined for a 2+4 so that must be what Azm is going for.

 

[Silicon0000]

Ops!!!

Not all 5th gen specs like super cruise etc. can be included in the 1st block. Hence, the prototypes will have the F16 engines from GE.... ​

Initial Prototype and Block 1 can have different engines (and if I am not wrong that's the plan also). 5th Gen have many specs and it's not necessary for TFX to have all, being 5th Gen. Even F35 can't do true/full super cruise.

 

[_NOBODY_]

70000-75000 MTOW.

Is that considered medium weight or heavy weight?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If it is the selected design then the focus may not be in sustained turn rates and more on transonic acceleration and instantaneous AoA - also looks like enough space below the airframe for a 2+2 weapons bay(or even a 2+4).

It is likely to have superior LO to most contemporary platforms that may be thought up in the region.

At first I was surprised that they were literally copying the design. Then I was like it's kind of typical Pakistani jugarh genius lol. We've never designed a jet from scratch before, it's best to start from something we know works, albeit without knowing the intricate details. Gives you a good starting point in terms of aerodynamics, shaping for stealth, configuration. Might be a good leapfrogging strategy.

But I wonder(and doubt) if there will be any takers for the "we've got a design, please help us make this" pitch they seem to be planning for. The folks at Azm need to go for a scale demonstrator that they build themselves to convince PAF itself and possible foreign takers.

The original YF-23 was destined for a 2+4 so that must be what Azm is going for.

I suspect the primary initial role of the NGFA is deep-strike (emphasis on payload, RCS reduction).

I think the PAF is approaching this program from the standpoint of, "we can probably get a good air-to-air fighter off-the-shelf, but no one will ever sell us real strike-capable jets." That "good air-to-air fighter" is probably going to be the J-10CE, and I imagine an overall commitment of 90-150 such jets might 'encourage' a Chinese bureau to help develop AZM (plus build some commonality across engine, electronics, etc).

 

[Rana4pak]

The best approach is to invest in further blocks of jf17(air superiority) untill he reached fully 5th generation level along with AZM for deep strike.

 

[CrazyZ]

The best approach is to invest in further blocks of jf17(air superiority) untill he reached fully 5th generation level along with AZM for deep strike.

It is good as the low end of the PAF fleet but has deficiencies (Jf-17 is underpowered) to be considered be considered a replacement for the F-16's at the hi end of the fleet. It was a good technical stepping stone...but we must attempt the next level.

 

[ProudPak]

It is good as the low end of the PAF fleet but has deficiencies (Jf-17 is underpowered) to be considered be considered a replacement for the F-16's at the hi end of the fleet. It was a good technical stepping stone...but we must attempt the next level.

OK tell me why it's underpowered.
Please back it up with real physics not because you have heard it .
Pakistan is still at the stage where Toyota corona is the car to have because someone said long ago it is.
Have water over melon and you get heza whatever the hell that is...yet melon is 95 percent water....water on water causes issues? Don't have fish in summer ... garam hota hai.

Tamasha

 

[TigerOfMysore]

We are designing for the past. BTT this is developed countries would be 2-3 gens ahead of us. Pace of tech innovation is accelerating. Our end product will be severely challenged by the time it becomes operational. I would have invested the Azam project into the following areas:
Modular approach to develop key technologies.

1) Computer Vision
2) AI engines and edge processing
3) Material sciences (for surfaces)
4) Electro-optical technologies (& countermeasures)
5) Nav/Sat comms suite
6) Autonomous Intelligence Engine & Threat Management
7) EW integration

In a nutshell technologies that will enable me to develop a modern UCAV, as long as I can get some good engine technologies as well as missiles, I would have critical areas developed to enable me to bring together a compelling UCAV platform.