Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Pakistan Space Agency]

View attachment 669843
Does anyone know which plane this is? It's wings look smaller compared to it's fuselage so doesn't look like JF17. Also air intakes seems to be below fuselage.
@Windjammer @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @The Eagle

Is it just this from the same program?

 

[Figaro]

I hope EJ-200 will power Project Azm,

WS-19 is a much superior alternative. More advanced than the EJ200, does not have European/American components, and offers considerably higher thrust.

So use a creepy Chinese engine.

Let's be serious in our discussions here. Please qualify this statement or at least tell us what "creepy" means in this respect?

IMO ... the PAF will ask about the EJ200 'just to see,' but it'll likely rely on the Chinese well all is said and done.

I highly doubt the PAF will pursue the EJ200 simply based on the fact that it uses European/American components, which would make it vulnerable to potential sanctions. This is not even going on to say that the EJ200 is already a nearly three decades old engine anyway.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I highly doubt the PAF will pursue the EJ200 simply based on the fact that it uses European/American components, which would make it vulnerable to potential sanctions. This is not even going on to say that the EJ200 is already a nearly three decades old engine anyway.

The PAF will generally keep its doors open to the West, especially if it's looking to export the fighter. Ironic, but there are countries that will be happy to choke on ITAR and other restrictions if it delivers a 'Western' fighter. That said, I don't think the PAF itself would rely on the EJ200; I can see the UK/Germany saying, 'please don't use this for your strategic/nuclear deployments!'

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Think I saw a documentary of F-22 vs YF-23. IIRC, the F-22 was selected because it had greater stealth while the YF-23 focused on more maneuverability. The philosophy was if the F-22 is stealthier it won't even need to be so agile since it will engage the enemy before the enemy even realizes its presence (you see the same logic in F-35 that is a fat behemoth but untouchable due to stealth)


Personally, I'm overjoyed that PAF went the YF-23 route since our only enemy is India and it is at a 3 minute flight time. We do not need supreme stealth, or better would be to say that having excessive stealth capabilities will be overkill. Therefore, having a plane that is semi-stealth yet a beast in WVR and BVR engagements would definitely be very very useful.

I was beginning to get a little pessimistic with all the talk of PAF just buying the J-31 and calling it AZM. This definitely helps allay some of the fears. Honestly, even if we fail to make a competent jet the very exercise of building one will give us a world of knowledge that we can use in the next one.


For example, we all know of the F-22, F-16, F-18 what have you, but nobody talks about the dozens if not hundreds of failed projects or technology demonstrators that the US developed to get to where it is today. It is a key step in the process.

please see again
F23. was mentioned as more stealthier at the expense of. manuverability

 

[GriffinsRule]

View attachment 669843
Does anyone know which plane this is? It's wings look smaller compared to it's fuselage so doesn't look like JF17. Also air intakes seems to be below fuselage.
@Windjammer @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @The Eagle

Looks like an F-16 to me

 

[volatile]

It appears Northrop plays an important role in development of AZM project seems similar to YF-23

 

[Deino]

It appears Northrop plays an important role in development of AZM project seems similar to YF-23

Nope ... IMO much more likely it is a fancy placeholder for the real configuration, which is still classified, but to think Northrop assist development of the AZM seems very much far-fetched.

 

[Kabotar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305907363132702721

US is doing same and apparently their NGAD has started flying.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305894299947667457

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305895304995143680

Random thoughts:
Since Azm FGFA/NGFA is a fighter starting development in contemporary times it is important that it utilizes one of the best uses of computers for design, manufacturing, and maintenance: Digital Twin.

A digital twin is exactly what it sounds like. It's a super super detailed computer simulation of your product that you build in parallel to your actual product. The advantages of doing this are also kind of obvious: you can do predictive maintenance, test out new design modifications at super-low costs, do all sorts of integration for much cheaper (sim aspect weighed more heavily than flight tests), track all the blocks and upgrades and the effects they may have, run hundreds and thousands of sims (as opposed to a few flight tests which cost a lot of money).

The way to build a digital twin is to model the crap out of every tiny component, use reduced-order modeling (ROM) techniques to simplify the models, test the models, and then connect the models to each other. The simplest model in a digital twin may represent the cockpit actuator, or a switch in the cockpit. The most complex models will generally be the aerodynamic and engine models. It takes a lot of computing power and human resource to construct, maintain, and run a digital twin but in the long run it saves costs.

This may be our opportunity to leapfrog into this new era of digital twins.

I believe the Boeing 777x has a digital twin, so do the F-35 and Tempest.

There is some debate on whether or not it is worth the cost but in my opinion it really is (if done right).

 

[Figaro]

It appears Northrop plays an important role in development of AZM project seems similar to YF-23

Just because it looks like the YF-23 does not mean Northrup played any role. This is just like saying since a Samsung phone looks like an iPhone, then Apple must have helped Samsung.

 

[JamD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305907363132702721

US is doing same and apparently their NGAD has started flying.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305894299947667457

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305895304995143680

Yes of course it is. I didn't come up with the idea. I've seen it being used in the US in recent years.

 

[volatile]

Nope ... IMO much more likely it is a fancy placeholder for the real configuration, which is still classified, but to think Northrop assist development of the AZM seems very much far-fetched.

If you allow me .PAF and Northrop corporation has links stretched at least into 3 decades .e.g JF17 thunder has many design inputs from Northrop under project Sabre
In January 1987, the Pakistan Air Force commissioned New York-based Grumman Aerospace to conduct studies and assess the feasibility of the Sabre II design concept with Pakistani specialists and the Chinese Chengdu Aircraft corporation

Project Sabre II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Just because it looks like the YF-23 does not mean Northrup played any role. This is just like saying since a Samsung phone looks like an iPhone, then Apple must have helped Samsung.

YF23 design was way a head in time from YF22 design and it outperforms in many aspects F22 was won over clever testing strategy .YF23 design is solid and there is no harm in collabrating US firms on this as you will get lots of experience and matured designs .
Good day !! Again this is speculation and hey we are here to discuss all possibilities not snub

 

[Figaro]

YF23 design was way a head in time from YF22 design and it outperforms in many aspects F22 was won over clever testing strategy .YF23 design is solid and there is no harm in collabrating US firms on this as you will get lots of experience and matured designs .
Good day !! Again this is speculation and hey we are here to discuss all possibilities not snub

I'm just saying I would be shocked if there was Northrup and PAC collaboration over a project as sensitive and whose technologies are as advanced as the YF23. I'm sure the F-22 borrowed a lot of the YF-23s technology.

 

[Shabi1]

The PAF will generally keep its doors open to the West, especially if it's looking to export the fighter. Ironic, but there are countries that will be happy to choke on ITAR and other restrictions if it delivers a 'Western' fighter. That said, I don't think the PAF itself would rely on the EJ200; I can see the UK/Germany saying, 'please don't use this for your strategic/nuclear deployments!'

Turkey had signed a MOU with BAE for a next gen variant of the EJ-200 for it's new stealth fighter. Seems Turkey is now without a jet engine too as BAE has pulled out. This means Pakistan will not take the chance with BAE for such a crucial component too.

Rolls-Royce dials back on project to build new Turkish fighter jet

Erdogan-backed scheme hit issues over intellectual property

www.ft.com

 

[Deino]

If you allow me .PAF and Northrop corporation has links stretched at least into 3 decades .e.g JF17 thunder has many design inputs from Northrop under project Sabre
In January 1987, the Pakistan Air Force commissioned New York-based Grumman Aerospace to conduct studies and assess the feasibility of the Sabre II design concept with Pakistani specialists and the Chinese Chengdu Aircraft corporation
...

But - at least by my knowledge - wan't this a pure Sino-US-cooperation on the Sabre II before the embargo?

 

[volatile]

I'm just saying I would be shocked if there was Northrup and PAC collaboration over a project as sensitive and whose technologies are as advanced as the YF23. I'm sure the F-22 borrowed a lot of the YF-23s technology.

Actually Advance fighter program had two different solutions F22 didnt borrow any thing from Northrop as it was seperate project Although NASA bought many important tech from YF23. Regarding shock about collabration it is no deal infact encouraging (but what ever is happening is behind the doors)