Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[The Eagle]

My only point is that information released so far does not provide enough base for discussion. Discussion currently going in this thread is more like wish list.

The information being released was done as per need and what should be released. Please add on with your knowledge and share the ideas so we can explore some more. This forum is not the source to release official information or you are trying to suggest that discussion as such is of no use. In the case of latter, anyone can choose to stay away and not to participate. For those, if topic is interested, everyone will take part with the wish and so the possibilities while exploring ideas & an attempt to validate the same. That is the essence of discussion. You don't need to say if information as such is not enough for you and no one can force others to talk about it or not to.

Regards,

 

[JamD]

Random thoughts:
Since Azm FGFA/NGFA is a fighter starting development in contemporary times it is important that it utilizes one of the best uses of computers for design, manufacturing, and maintenance: Digital Twin.

A digital twin is exactly what it sounds like. It's a super super detailed computer simulation of your product that you build in parallel to your actual product. The advantages of doing this are also kind of obvious: you can do predictive maintenance, test out new design modifications at super-low costs, do all sorts of integration for much cheaper (sim aspect weighed more heavily than flight tests), track all the blocks and upgrades and the effects they may have, run hundreds and thousands of sims (as opposed to a few flight tests which cost a lot of money).

The way to build a digital twin is to model the crap out of every tiny component, use reduced-order modeling (ROM) techniques to simplify the models, test the models, and then connect the models to each other. The simplest model in a digital twin may represent the cockpit actuator, or a switch in the cockpit. The most complex models will generally be the aerodynamic and engine models. It takes a lot of computing power and human resource to construct, maintain, and run a digital twin but in the long run it saves costs.

This may be our opportunity to leapfrog into this new era of digital twins.

I believe the Boeing 777x has a digital twin, so do the F-35 and Tempest.

There is some debate on whether or not it is worth the cost but in my opinion it really is (if done right).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Random thoughts:
Since Azm FGFA/NGFA is a fighter starting development in contemporary times it is important that it utilizes one of the best uses of computers for design, manufacturing, and maintenance: Digital Twin.

A digital twin is exactly what it sounds like. It's a super super detailed computer simulation of your product that you build in parallel to your actual product. The advantages of doing this are also kind of obvious: you can do predictive maintenance, test out new design modifications at super-low costs, do all sorts of integration for much cheaper (sim aspect weighed more heavily than flight tests), track all the blocks and upgrades and the effects they may have, run hundreds and thousands of sims (as opposed to a few flight tests which cost a lot of money).

The way to build a digital twin is to model the crap out of every tiny component, use reduced-order modeling (ROM) techniques to simplify the models, test the models, and then connect the models to each other. The simplest model in a digital twin may represent the cockpit actuator, or a switch in the cockpit. The most complex models will generally be the aerodynamic and engine models. It takes a lot of computing power and human resource to construct, maintain, and run a digital twin but in the long run it saves costs.

This may be our opportunity to leapfrog into this new era of digital twins.

I believe the Boeing 777x has a digital twin, so do the F-35 and Tempest.

There is some debate on whether or not it is worth the cost but in my opinion it really is (if done right).

I agree. It also takes time (and lots of money) to set-up the jigs to even build a physical prototype. Even if we get the private sector involved and operate at maximum efficiency, we're not going to support more than one fighter production line at a time.

Digital twins may allow us to implement a bunch of the development work before we even get a prototype going. It might even be a way to speed-up the process of transitioning from prototyping to small batch production, and small batches to serial.

 

[Kabotar]

WS10B could be one of the possible contender for AZM.

Chinese Aero Engine information thread

When was the last order China put in for Russian engines of the Al-31 family, anyone know? Which types were ordered? There has been none for a couple years now (maybe spares but I haven't heard any either).

defence.pk

 

[Figaro]

WS10B could be one of the possible contender for AZM.

Chinese Aero Engine information thread

When was the last order China put in for Russian engines of the Al-31 family, anyone know? Which types were ordered? There has been none for a couple years now (maybe spares but I haven't heard any either).

defence.pk

By the time AZM is available for prototyping phase, the next generation WS-19 will already be available. If the PAF wants a heavy fighter, then the WS-15 will also be available.

 

[CriticalThought]

Azm 2020 Update

- Indigenous capabilites in selecting materials through rigorous mechanical testing, machining materials into required forms, including materials needed for NGFA (NOTE: The exact materials have not been disclosed, but most likely include the ability to work with Titanium) have been disclosed.

- Indigenous capabilites in performing rudimentary 3D reconstruction and CFD analysis on existing stealth designs have been demonstrated.

- A GNN segment has presented a model for a LO JF-17. The model contains characteristics which show a level of understanding beyond usual fanboy fantasies.

- Work on indigenous missiles and UAVs has been showcased. The indigenous missile looks like a short range air to ground design and shows PAF's committment to provide CAS to both naval and land based units.

- Hints about an indigenous EW package have been dropped.

All in all, PAF seems fully committed to Azm and is exploring a wide range of aerial warfare platforms and weapons to create the next surprise for the enemy. I would personally love to see some progress on an indigenous AEWACs platform as well. Of note is PAF's branching out into the maintenance of commercial airliners. I would like to see a spin-off from PAC that is dedicated to commercial aircraft. It should still be headed through secondment by PAF/PAC officials, but should be independent in both finance and revenue generation. PAC's facilities and expertise should be available on a rent/subscription basis. Over time, this spin-off would be expected to have its own expertise and facilities.

 

[Figaro]

Azm 2020 Update

- Indigenous capabilites in selecting materials through rigorous mechanical testing, machining materials into required forms, including materials needed for NGFA (NOTE: The exact materials have not been disclosed, but most likely include the ability to work with Titanium) have been disclosed.

- Indigenous capabilites in performing rudimentary 3D reconstruction and CFD analysis on existing stealth designs have been demonstrated.

- A GNN segment has presented a model for a LO JF-17. The model contains characteristics which show a level of understanding beyond usual fanboy fantasies.

- Work on indigenous missiles and UAVs has been showcased. The indigenous missile looks like a short range air to ground design and shows PAF's committment to provide CAS to both naval and land based units.

- Hints about an indigenous EW package have been dropped.

All in all, PAF seems fully committed to Azm and is exploring a wide range of aerial warfare platforms and weapons to create the next surprise for the enemy. I would personally love to see some progress on an indigenous AEWACs platform as well. Of note is PAF's branching out into the maintenance of commercial airliners. I would like to see a spin-off from PAC that is dedicated to commercial aircraft. It should still be headed through secondment by PAF/PAC officials, but should be independent in both finance and revenue generation. PAC's facilities and expertise should be available on a rent/subscription basis. Over time, this spin-off would be expected to have its own expertise and facilities.

Where did this information come from? Can you share us the link? Thank you.

 

[nomi007]

I hope EJ-200 will power Project Azm,

 

[_NOBODY_]

I hope EJ-200 will power Project Azm,

That would be extremely stupid, why would you want that?

 

[Riz]

That would be extremely stupid, why would you want that?

Awain eeee...

 

[nomi007]

That would be extremely stupid, why would you want that?

So use a creepy Chinese engine.

 

[Chak Bamu]

So use a creepy Chinese engine.

What is creepy about Chinese engines?

Pakistan has used WP series Chinese engines for decades. I am not aware of them biting anyone.

 

[nomi007]

What is creepy about Chinese engines?

Pakistan has used WP series Chinese engines for decades. I am not aware of them biting anyone.

Just watch this program completely and as a neutral viewer.
Dissecting modern fighter Aircrafts - Abhijit Iyer Mitra & Sanjay Dixit

 

[Kabotar]

Does anyone know which plane this is? It's wings look smaller compared to it's fuselage so doesn't look like JF17. Also air intakes seems to be below fuselage.
@Windjammer @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @The Eagle

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I hope EJ-200 will power Project Azm,

That would be extremely stupid, why would you want that?

IMO ... the PAF will ask about the EJ200 'just to see,' but it'll likely rely on the Chinese well all is said and done.