Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[serenity]

As per @messiach AZM is a clean sheet Design.

I missed the post. But even 100 messiach saying this does not mean it is 100% true. All respect to the other poster.

We will see AZM. I remember in 2017 and 2018 many famous members here with "inside information" claim Pakistan army will definitely not buy VT-4. Developing clean sheet 5th generation fighter even Korea could not accomplish and has abandoned internal weapon bay already and it is still on paper only so far with some equipment being developed now. It is not always just question of ability and then industry but also a question of finance and requirement. Korea has more funding and political support to develop the KFX and also has much more support in ability. Definitely they need the fighter more than Pakistan need AZM.

I think more likely the AZM will be either FC-31 based cooperated with China for a more custom line which can hopefully be made by Pakistan itself like JF-17 or it will be Turkish TFX in place but I think the TFX will require much more western sub contracting. I guess we will see.

 

[Tameem]

I missed the post. But even 100 messiach saying this does not mean it is 100% true. All respect to the other poster.

We will see AZM. I remember in 2017 and 2018 many famous members here with "inside information" claim Pakistan army will definitely not buy VT-4. Developing clean sheet 5th generation fighter even Korea could not accomplish and has abandoned internal weapon bay already and it is still on paper only so far with some equipment being developed now. It is not always just question of ability and then industry but also a question of finance and requirement. Korea has more funding and political support to develop the KFX and also has much more support in ability. Definitely they need the fighter more than Pakistan need AZM.

I think more likely the AZM will be either FC-31 based cooperated with China for a more custom line which can hopefully be made by Pakistan itself like JF-17 or it will be Turkish TFX in place but I think the TFX will require much more western sub contracting. I guess we will see.

How Can a Strategic Project Like AZM is off the shelf buy for PAF, sounds ridicules.
If Indeed FC-31/J-35 = Project AZM than at least there would be an 50:50 rights partnership arrangements somewhere, just like we see in JF-17 between PAC & CAC. Exception of that kind of arrangement at any level, its only foolish to believes that Pakistan will go ahead to treat Project AZM=FC-31/J-35.

 

[Shabi1]

As per @messiach AZM is a clean sheet Design.

The J-31 is a complicated project with 2 prototypes already out in the open and third one expected could be called a clean design.
J-31 V1
J-31 V2 different tail, wing tips and DAS
J-31 V3 or J-35
These are all different. The V3 is being made larger and with a more powerful power plant.

 

[Tameem]

The J-31 is a complicated project with 2 prototypes already out in the open and third one expected could be called a clean design.
J-31 V1
J-31 V2 different tail, wing tips and DAS
J-31 V3 or J-35
These are all different. The V3 is being made larger and with a more powerful power plant.

It could be a separate development but not Project AZM.

 

[Shabi1]

It could be a separate development but not Project AZM.

Yes its just speculation.
Reason for it is ACM has said China will be contracted for the flight design as they have good wind tunnels and the ability to do it quicker and cheaper. So far the J-31V3 could be the only stealth design China is working on that we know of that meets Pakistan's needs.

 

[jupiter2007]

Yes its just speculation.
Reason for it is ACM has said China will be contracted for the flight design as they have good wind tunnels and the ability to do it quicker and cheaper. So far the J-31V3 could be the only stealth design China is working on that we know of that meets Pakistan's needs.

Could this be a possibility that PAF gave their requirements to China to redesign J-31 as part of AZM project? It won’t be completely off the shelf.
On other hand, I feel that AZM will incorporate design and technology from Turkey and China.

 

[Indos]

I missed the post. But even 100 messiach saying this does not mean it is 100% true. All respect to the other poster.

We will see AZM. I remember in 2017 and 2018 many famous members here with "inside information" claim Pakistan army will definitely not buy VT-4. Developing clean sheet 5th generation fighter even Korea could not accomplish and has abandoned internal weapon bay already and it is still on paper only so far with some equipment being developed now. It is not always just question of ability and then industry but also a question of finance and requirement. Korea has more funding and political support to develop the KFX and also has much more support in ability. Definitely they need the fighter more than Pakistan need AZM.

I think more likely the AZM will be either FC-31 based cooperated with China for a more custom line which can hopefully be made by Pakistan itself like JF-17 or it will be Turkish TFX in place but I think the TFX will require much more western sub contracting. I guess we will see.

KFX design has been made with internal weapon bay n mind, so further development in block 2 will incorporate internal weapon bay inshaAllah. Indonesia also needs fighter who has good range so we need two extra fuel tank.

 

[Armchair]

How Can a Strategic Project Like AZM is off the shelf buy for PAF, sounds ridicules.
If Indeed FC-31/J-35 = Project AZM than at least there would be an 50:50 rights partnership arrangements somewhere, just like we see in JF-17 between PAC & CAC. Exception of that kind of arrangement at any level, its only foolish to believes that Pakistan will go ahead to treat Project AZM=FC-31/J-35.

Spot on. It makes no logical sense. Moving from a 50/50 venture to a paint job is not how Pakistani policy is meant to work, or remotely expected to work as far as the fighter projects are concerned.

 

[Indos]

Spot on. It makes no logical sense. Moving from a 50/50 venture to a paint job is not how Pakistani policy is meant to work, or remotely expected to work as far as the fighter projects are concerned.

AZM project is started by previous administration. Does Imran Khan ever mention this project after he become PM ?
.

 

[Bilal.]

AZM project is started by previous administration. Does Imran Khan ever mention this project after he become PM ?
.

PMs very very rearly mention specific programs by name as in when they are guest of honor in a ceremony related to a program. All we have ever heard about AZM have come from Air Force officials.

 

[jupiter2007]

AZM project is started by previous administration. Does Imran Khan ever mention this project after he become PM ?
.

When did government ever get involve in any defense project? They are only responsible for allocate funds for it. Everything else is done by army/defense planners. There are 100s other projects that IK probably does know about.

 

[Shabi1]

Could this be a possibility that PAF gave their requirements to China to redesign J-31 as part of AZM project? It won’t be completely off the shelf.
On other hand, I feel that AZM will incorporate design and technology from Turkey and China.

From what I've read J-31's size and engine thrust do not meet the performance goals, they are enlarging it and preparing for a more powerful power plant that would make it super cruise capable as well. This is the reason why not too many updates on J-31 as the changes taking time.
Now PAF choosing J-31/35 design is speculation and a intelligent guess because of ACM interview that Chinese assistance will be taken for flight design and no other joint venture option would meet the timelines given by PAF for Azm.
However it is confirm that PAF will keep system integration to itself so we can expect sub systems from EU, Turkey and China all combined.

 

[Syed1.]

I think we might be taking some sort of a middle ground. Yes we may have Chinese assistance but it won't be like just buying J-3X and painting it in PAF insignia.


What might be happening is that PAC doing their own design but have Chinese experienced engineers on the teams or they get their designs QC'ed by CAC. What is also possible is that CAC may have given them basic design parameters and done the initial groundwork then PAC engineers take the design to completion all the while being assisted by China. Sort of like holding hand and showing the path.


That's my 2 cents as an engineer. I know I would be pissed if my boss had zero faith in my ability and just preferred to buy COTS and say this is indigenous design.

 

[Hayreddin]

I think AZM will be based on FC-31 which China is now developing into navy fighter. I do not believe Pakistan is developing its own totally new 5th generation fighter. So AZM first flight may be the same flight as J-35 first flight.

Project azm stealth fighter is the improved version of j31 , u can call it jf35 or something . Its maiden flight wld be around 2024/25 as hinted by paf before . Reason of making it a separate project for integration and support western + turkish parts n skills.

 

[Syed1.]

Project azm stealth fighter is the improved version of j31 , u can call it jf35 or something . Its maiden flight wld be around 2024/25 as hinted by paf before . Reason of making it a separate project for integration and support western + turkish parts n skills.

So its just a Chinese jet in PAF colors