Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[python-000]

If FC-31 gets the name J-xx from PLA, it means that it has got orders from PLAAF/PLAN.

PLAAF/PLAN/PAF...

 

[DrWatson775]

F-16 still one of the most maneuverable/agile jet, which is single engine jet, and tell me why USA develop single engine F-35 without supercruise

Sirjee, I was specifically commenting regarding the PAF situation as we are discussing AZM. Where is PAF going to find an engine that can single-handedly make a 5th gen aircraft capable of supercruise? Anyway that was my opinion and of course I can be wrong....

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Jf17 will be there in number and will be able to tackle anything indians throw at us. J31 is years away. By the time it rolls of production line in number project azm will be well on it's way

JF17 is not the ANSWER for every question. Over estimation is dangerous.

 

[Trango Towers]

JF17 is not the ANSWER for every question. Over estimation is dangerous.

So is wasting money on platforms not needed. What makes you more of an expert than PAF. After all they put their lives on the line we sit back and talk

Sirjee, I was specifically commenting regarding the PAF situation as we are discussing AZM. Where is PAF going to find an engine that can single-handedly make a 5th gen aircraft capable of supercruise? Anyway that was my opinion and of course I can be wrong....

Where there is a will there is a way. Dont worry...PAF has faced bigger challenges
Remember the same question arose for jf17

 

[StormBreaker]

 

[Deino]

View attachment 596915

An old concept for the JAST or CALF proposal, which was a predecessor to the JSF and as such the F-35.

 

[StormBreaker]

An old concept for the JAST or CALF proposal, which was a predecessor to the JSF and as such the F-35.

Hey Cap. Obvious, i was trying to play with people here !!!


Btw, the concept displayed on C-130 tail was similar with exceptions of a narrower nose and dual engines !!!

It is quite surprising to find out that USA instead of jumping 2 gens ahead, stayed with F-22 instead of YF-23 and F-35 instead of this one !!!

 

[JamD]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

This is a follow up on our discussions on loyal wingman drones. I was recently in conversion with a good friend of mine who is a GNC engineer at Boeing. In conversation he mentioned that Boeing is very actively working on autonomous air combat algorithms. This stuff is being developed right now with massive funds being poured into it. I guess it is no surprise that Boeing wouldn't rest on creating 5th gen aircraft but move on to the next generation. Nevertheless, this is a scary situation because I feel the difference between fully autonomous fighter aircraft and legacy (4th and 5th gen) aircraft will be like the difference between swords and machine guns.

For the Pakistani perspective:
I know we are nowhere near developing things like fully autonomous fighter aircraft but there needs to be research into things like algorithm development. This (algorithmic) research doesn't need a lot of resources. Just some computers and simulation software. What is really needed is the realization that air combat will change and for us to try to stay ahead or at the very least closely follow the curve. The US has things like office of naval research (ONR) and air force research lab (AFRL) whose job is to do in-house research and fund university research on projects. PAF needs to do something along those lines.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

This is a follow up on our discussions on loyal wingman drones. I was recently in conversion with a good friend of mine who is a GNC engineer at Boeing. In conversation he mentioned that Boeing is very actively working on autonomous air combat algorithms. This stuff is being developed right now with massive funds being poured into it. I guess it is no surprise that Boeing wouldn't rest on creating 5th gen aircraft but move on to the next generation. Nevertheless, this is a scary situation because I feel the difference between fully autonomous fighter aircraft and legacy (4th and 5th gen) aircraft will be like the difference between swords and machine guns.

For the Pakistani perspective:
I know we are nowhere near developing things like fully autonomous fighter aircraft but there needs to be research into things like algorithm development. This (algorithmic) research doesn't need a lot of resources. Just some computers and simulation software. What is really needed is the realization that air combat will change and for us to try to stay ahead or at the very least closely follow the curve. The US has things like office of naval research (ONR) and air force research lab (AFRL) whose job is to do in-house research and fund university research on projects. PAF needs to do something along those lines.

Basically, the PAF would need to set-up an 'Aerospace Research Institute' (ARI) in parallel with AvRID?

 

[JamD]

Basically, the PAF would need to set-up an 'Aerospace Research Institute' (ARI) in parallel with AvRID?

Not necessarily separate from AvRID but perhaps AvRID should have the mandate and funding to solicit research proposals and then fund research outside AvRID. I think this distributes risk in a good way and is a model that has worked quite well for the US at least.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Not necessarily separate from AvRID but perhaps AvRID should have the mandate and funding to solicit research proposals and then fund research outside AvRID. I think this distributes risk in a good way and is a model that has worked quite well for the US at least.

So, what worries me now is that we have foreign companies opening up in the NSTP doing exactly that, looking for outside, organic research to fund. I wonder if this may result in a bidding war of sorts internally.

 

[JamD]

So, what worries me now is that we have foreign companies opening up in the NSTP doing exactly that, looking for outside, organic research to fund. I wonder if this may result in a bidding war of sorts internally.

Doing exactly "that"? Funding research in Pakistan? What could they possibly gain by investing in Pakistani universities that they could not gain by investing in universities in their own countries? I don't believe foreign companies are setting up for R&D here. I think at most it is for repackaged/licenced copies or just sales. The kind of research funding I am talking about is the kind governments do in their people to develop a base. I see no reason why someone else will do it for us. Besides funding into universities usually results in open source tech so if what you're saying is correct then it is a welcome and not a scary development. But I doubt it is.

 

[Safriz]

Doing exactly "that"? Funding research in Pakistan? What could they possibly gain by investing in Pakistani universities that they could not gain by investing in universities in their own countries? I don't believe foreign companies are setting up for R&D here. I think at most it is for repackaged/licenced copies or just sales. The kind of research funding I am talking about is the kind governments do in their people to develop a base. I see no reason why someone else will do it for us. Besides funding into universities usually results in open source tech so if what you're saying is correct then it is a welcome and not a scary development. But I doubt it is.

May i remind you that this did happen.
In 2003 General Pervez Musharraf launched "Armed forces development program 2025" and 24 Billion USD were to be spent on defence research and infrastructure building from 2003 to 2025..
The funding continued from 2003 to 2007

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/24+billion+Armed+Forces+Development+Plan+2025+reviewed.-a0196327631

 

[JamD]

May i remind you that this did happen.
In 2003 General Pervez Musharraf launched "Armed forces development program 2025" and 24 Billion USD were to be spent on defence research and infrastructure building from 2003 to 2025..
The funding continued from 2003 to 2007

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/24+billion+Armed+Forces+Development+Plan+2025+reviewed.-a0196327631

Thanks for the info. I did not remember this. Very sad that something planned to continue till 2025 was stopped in 2007. Like economies, research needs stability. I hope we can have long periods of a stable economy so we can actually sustain these programs.

 

[Ultimate Weapon]

I have a question.

Why is this thread not sticky, however J31's thread is sticky.

This thread also need to be sticky.