Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Smarana Mitra]

For project AZM we started to doing research mainly at avionics/Radars (AESA) arena, we had have a TOT for licences production for our Mirages ROSE upgrades from Italy, the main concern about Project AZM are how to develop composite materials and engine for it, May be engine comes from China in form of WS-13 or it improve forms WS-19

Italy itself has limited technology. Due to being part of axis in WW2, Allies don't fully trust Italy and hence don't allow Italy to have advanced technology. So, the technology that Italy can give is limited.

Composites can be obtained from Turkey. Turkey makes composite sheets. But that will just help with low RCS airframe. Composite is not critical as Pakistan can do aluminium or titanium airframe too. It is acceptable to have F16 type planes as fighter jets of 4th generation and is better than not having any. But the real problem is in electronics, weapons integration, radar, FBW, microchip etc.

Engine will come from outside but for composite material, Pakistan will have to ask China or other friendly country for transfer of technology.

Turkey already has composite material which it will give to Pakistan.

The Turkish defense industry's semiconductor needs are mainly provided by YITAL, a subsidiary Lab of TUBITAK. However, even though YITAL continues its scientific studies within TUBITAK; it became an indipendent company with TUBITAK, Aselsan and SSB subsidiaries, in 2017. In other words, it is the reliable semi-conductor manufacturing house of the defense industry while efforts are continuing to increase the production scale. YITAL was established for conducting research in the fields of semiconductor technology in 1983.

After company incorporation, In the first stage, production processes in technologies critical to the country have been developed. Such as uncooled infrared detectors, radar signal processing circuits and production of national microprocessors has been ensured. In addition, the semiconductor detectors used in missile systems such as Mini Smart Ammunition (MAM-L) and CIRIT, the basic ammunition of Armed Unmanned Aerial Vehicles , were produced with YITAL's photodetector technology. Also new Goktuğ A-A missile family,which being develope using YITAL semiconductors like all other Roketsan and SAGE missiles.

YITAL currently developing the 0,25 μm 5 met al CMOS and SiGeC HBT BiCMOS processes. YITAL, which develops it’s original production processes, has reached present position by developing BIPOLAR technology, 3 μm 1,5 μm and 0,7 μm CMOS technologies and producing low-volume integrated circuits (IC).

YITAL has the infrastructure which enables to implement IC design, mask production, wafer processing, wafer probing, packaging, circuit test and aging processes.

For the first time in 1999, the ICs containing national crypto algorithms used TUBITAK UEKAE’s cryptographic devices is designed and manufactured with YITAL CMOS processes. From this date, the institute’s crypto ICs are designed and manufactured at YITAL. YITAL team has designed Turkey’s first National Smart Card IC with the use of combined power coming from extensive experience in IC design and the knowledge of secure circuit design captured through 6th Framework Programme. These ICs are currently in use. Interface Communication Card is implemented with the use of YITAL ICs. These ICs are manufactured with high volt age 24 V CMOS process which is specially developed for this work.

Additionally, radon gas and photodetector production processes are developed. Detectors produced with these processes are widely used with success in applications oriented towards Turkey’s needs. YITAL, parallel to Turkey’s objectives in the field of space, is conducting research space-grade IC manufacturing technology. Within this scope, there is an ongoing effort to develop SOI CMOS process.

YITAL is in collaboration with various universities providing support to master’s and doctoral programs which will benefit of Turkey’s semiconductor technology and electronic design capability. Developing advanced semiconductor manufacturing processes and having security products used in Turkey’s critical applications manufactured with this processes, YITAL has the capability of converting a design on paper to a packaged and tested IC with national resources.

Mt bad- I was wrong about semiconductor technology of Turkey. Turkey indeed appears to have 0.7um wafer technology. I wonder why is Turkey unable to develop space shuttle, satellite or even ballistic missile systems when it has the chipset technology.

In short, consumer market and national security needs are quite different issues. If you try to ask first rather than pontificating , we can maintain a healthier communication.

If our Pakistani brothers are not angry that I went out of the topic, I will respond to other claims which are equally deprived of knowledge..

*

However, you can start from here: No further export licences will be needed for the transfer of individual pieces of equipment or technology from the UK to Turkey

or here: The quality of the skilled Turkish engineers and technicians, alongside the incentive schemes that encourage further in-country research and development, demonstrates the nation’s increasing stature as an increasingly valued partner for knowledge-share and genuine technology transfer.

or here: Rolls Royce offer to co-develop, in collaboration with Turkish industry, a new fast jet engine for the TF-X programme will soon be agreed upon.

or here: Partnerships with UK Companies Sharpening Turkey’s Technological & Manufacturing Edge via Knowledge Transfer

or here: The Turkish defence and aerospace industry has been strengthening its position in the world market today with its turnover reaching approximately to US$6.7 billion and its exports reaching US$1.8 billion

I recommend you to come to the Turkish forum about the subsystem projects, which is the strongest part of the Turkish defense industry. Because I need to write dozens of pages.

Next, UK only is assuring that it will export parts for TFX without export controls and Turkey can then sell it to anyone. But UK has not accepted technology transfer. The working together will only be about assembling in Turkey while critical parts will be imported from UK. Turkey will only have smaller parts like fasteners, nuts and bolts, wiring, PCB etc manufactured in Turkey. I have been following this cooperation and have knowledge about this topic. Last year, Erdogan had given a deadline for BAE to come to a final agreement about technology cooperation and there had been no more news about any technology cooperation after that except for the consultancy.

I have also researched about technology transfer history of France, USA, UK and found that these countries give technology only to other white Roman christian countries and will never transfer any critical technology to others. When India asked for technology cooperation with these countries, they pretended to cooperate but after some time simply rejected any cooperation. These NATO countries only try to delay other countries projects by trying to pretend that they will give technology transfer and after wasting significant time, simply reject the proposal. Don't keep high hopes of getting any technology from UK, USA or France. That will never happen[/QUOTE]

 

[Ultima Thule]

Italy itself has limited technology. Due to being part of axis in WW2, Allies don't fully trust Italy and hence don't allow Italy to have advanced technology. So, the technology that Italy can give is limited.

Wow just wow about your thinking about Italy they took part in ef2000 development project they are making one of the finest AESA ever heard vixen AESA for grippen ng vixen is comparable to SABRE AESA that developed by Raytheon and get out of the era of ww2

Composites can be obtained from Turkey. Turkey makes composite sheets. But that will just help with low RCS airframe. Composite is not critical as Pakistan can do aluminium or titanium airframe too. It is acceptable to have F16 type planes as fighter jets of 4th generation and is better than not having any. But the real problem is in electronics, weapons integration, radar, FBW, microchip etc.

We can use foreign composite materials in our project azm but no gains for long terms it is wise to research and composite materials at home it takes more time but rewards will be massive and we have quite mature electronic capabilities at PAC main problem for project azm will be engine and composite material not electronic AESA system integration we already doing on jf17 project

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Wow just wow about your thinking about Italy they took part in ef2000 development project they are making one of the finest AESA ever heard vixen AESA for grippen ng vixen is comparable to SABRE AESA that developed by Raytheon and get out of the era of ww2

We can use foreign composite materials in our project azm but no gains for long terms it is wise to research and composite materials at home it takes more time but rewards will be massive and we have quite mature electronic capabilities at PAC main problem for project azm will be engine and composite material not electronic AESA system integration we already doing on jf17 project

Do we have either the money or the time to do our own R&D???

 

[Ultima Thule]

Do we have either the money or the time to do our own R&D???

Yes bro its long term game bro PAF not want to ask billions of $$$ for developing composite materials AESA electronics/avionics developments in a year or so few million $$$ per year will be fine for development of these components

 

[Silicon0000]

What if a cooperation framework is established in AZM and MMU projects, together with Chinese technical support? I mean, not a common aircraft; both dedicated for its countries unique needs , but have common logistic and training infrastructure.

So, Pakistan can work with China for new airframe, while TAI can work with BAE support. However, the common infrastructure and integration standard will make the risk management of both countries more predictable. Also, kind of cooperation like this, can improve logistic secure, during the operational periods of these aircrafts.

What will this do? aircraft industry capacity of both countries will be able to produce for both countries. In addition, both air forces will reach common standards. This will allow both countries to pursue a stronger foreign policy.

Yes Quite possible, infact highly likely for subsystems where there is significant gap between Chinese Available Tech and Turkish Available Tech.

But as far as timeline are concern, Pak FGFA will roll out depends on India meanwhile for Turkish it's not apply.

Getting chinese equipment is not same as manufacturing Indigenous ones. The imports of arms will always be expensive and time consuming. The repairs will be difficult without spare parts and codes. Moreover, very few countries would sell their state of the art planes as they fear reverse engineering or selling the technology to rivals for favours.

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PAK FGFA is not going to be equipped with latest Hi-Tech, but mature tech which is one step behind available Chinese tech at that time. It's not gonna have tech like quantum Radar etc. By the time PAK FGFA start rolling out, Chinese 6th Gen will be in prototype stage. Plus Pakistan work depends on Indigenization not development. So both cost and required time will be less.

Pakistanis are wise enough to know their strength and weakness and they don't want to be in the time consuming development process like in case of LCA Tejas. JF17 may not be develop by Pakistan but it's a Pakistani Fighter plane with much less restrictions attached.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

PAK FGFA is not going to be equipped with latest Hi-Tech, but mature tech which is one step behind available Chinese tech at that time. It's not gonna have tech like quantum Radar etc. By the time PAK FGFA start rolling out, Chinese 6th Gen will be in prototype stage. Plus Pakistan work depends on Indigenization not development. So both cost and required time will be less.

Pakistanis are wise enough to know their strength and weakness and they don't want to be in the time consuming development process like in case of LCA Tejas. JF17 may not be develop by Pakistan but it's a Pakistani Fighter plane with much less restrictions attached.

None would have 6th generation fighter anytime soon (before 2050). So, don't think about anyone having such technology and hence giving Pakistan 5th generation technology. None will give technology beyond a point.

 

[LKJ86]

None would have 6th generation fighter anytime soon (before 2050).

The development of fighter aircrafts would speed up in near future, just like in the cold war.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

None would have 6th generation fighter anytime soon (before 2050). So, don't think about anyone having such technology and hence giving Pakistan 5th generation technology. None will give technology beyond a point.

5th gen doesn't mean it will be in class of F35,F22 or even SU-57. Technology has evolved. Both F22 and F35 are made using computing powers of 80s and early 2000s respectively. Alot has changed since.

 

[Silicon0000]

None would have 6th generation fighter anytime soon (before 2050). So, don't think about anyone having such technology and hence giving Pakistan 5th generation technology. None will give technology beyond a point.

I am expecting 6th Gen Prototypes at or before 2030.

 

[KapitaanAli]

Pakistanis are wise enough to know their strength and weakness and they don't want to be in the time consuming development process like in case of LCA Tejas. JF17 may not be develop by Pakistan but it's a Pakistani Fighter plane with much less restrictions attached.

This is an advantage (or disadvantage) Pakistan has, that the programs are run by the Air Force. Air Forces focus on having the equipment in hand, not on R&D pride and research papers.

 

[dBSPL]

(November 17, 2019 )GM of SSB, Prof.Dr. Demir: "We are discussing together with Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia about MMU(aka TFX) becoming a joint fighter project within the scope of new generation aircraft needs. (...) we were back again to negotiation process with R&R about new generation engine's technical consultancy. Currently, Trmotor continues to work, but we are trying to accelerate the process further. Prototype aircrafts will fly with US-origin engines."

He also said a few things about the project process. If I sum up briefly: Preparing new generation technologies at the operative level always contain important problems. In this context, the problems experienced by other countries' projects are seen. Our plan is to throw the aircraft's first flight date behind the possible nearest range because it will proceed after completing many critical testing processes which are usually starting with the flight schedule in traditional project management. The plane will roll out from hangar in 2023, but we are considering the range of 2025-2026 for the first flight date , we hope to shorten the IOC stage in this way.

I think, a masterplan is being developing/discussing that will decrease the Russian and US aviation industries hegamony in a vast geography from the Middle East to Asia , possibly with China and some europen technical support. Production planning can be redesigned with a few years of work. However, after freezing final design, the project partnership will either create technological sharing problems or the project will cause additional undesired delays. Therefore, this discussion process should be end (positive or negative), by 2020-2021 interval.

 

[khanasifm]

Interesting perspective

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1457664024371460

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

F-16 was the reference set for the JF-17 Thunder program as per AM (Rtd) Shahid Latif.

What is the reference for the Pakistani FGF? F-35?

 

[Signalian]

Air Forces focus on having the equipment in hand, not on R&D pride and research papers.

Such a wrong perspective. Thats not how aircraft are made.

 

[MM_Haider]

Project Azm was formally initiated by the PAF back in July 2017, and its agenda is to develop an FGFA, a medium-altitude, and long-endurance (MALE), new munitions, unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), and multiple other projects.

Developing Pakistan@DevelopmentPk

° Project Azm = Lead by #PAF to develop/build 5th generation aircraft, weapon systems and MALE attack drones.

° Project Hangor = Lead by Pakistan #Navy to acquire and build 8X Hangor Class Submarines.

° Project Haider = Lead by #Pakistan #Army to develop & build a 4th gen Tank.



131
8:05 PM - Jul 19, 2018
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Upon announcing the initiation of Project Azm, the then Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman had informed that the design phase of the Male Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) has reached its “final stages”.

Muhammad Ibrahim Qazi

✔@miqazi
The previous Chief of Air Staff (CAS) of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), retired Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman had reportedly stated at the Islamabad Chamber of Commerce that the PAF had completed the design of Project Azm, its next-generation fighter. [URL='https://t.co/2hJrTOiYVb']https://quwa.org/2019/04/30/pakistan-defence-review-april-2019-modest-steps-for-the-short-term-significant-plans-for-the-long-term-2/ …[/URL]


Pakistan Defence Review (April 2019): Modest Steps for the Short-Term & Significant Plans for the...
Speaking to the Islamabad Chamber of Commerce & Industry (ICCI), the previous Chief of Air Staff (CAS) of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), retired Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman had reportedly...

quwa.org

8
10:12 AM - May 1, 2019
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See Muhammad Ibrahim Qazi's other Tweets
According to the MoDP’s 2017-2018 yearbook, the scheduled deadline for the first flight of the MALE UAV was June 2019. The yearbooks of the MoDP are intended to reveal projects that are completed during a period of 12-18 months before the publication, which indicates that the MALE UAV has either flown or has been delayed, while the FGFA is well into the design phase of the project.

A recently conducted interview with the Pakistan Air Force Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan revealed that he does not expect the 5th generation fighter aircraft to make its maiden flight for “another decade”.


Read more: A Bigger, Better and more Fearsome JF-17 Thunder by Pakistan Air Force

The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”

The FGFA is expected to be designed as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance fighter aircraft with a clean-sheet jet. The new design configuration reveals that the PAF intends to design a fighter aircraft that is equipped to carry heavier payloads and boosts a greater range than the JF-17.


Shahid Raza@schaheid
https://twitter.com/schaheid/status/1104699095657136129

If my calculations are correct, the aircraft we'll see being developed under Project Azm 2030 will be a clean sheet design, built around a SINGLE advanced derivative of the WS-15 class engine. It'll have low observable characteristics and PAF defined specifications.


Analysts believe that the PAF intends to design a platform that is optimized for offensive counter-air (OCA), maritime, and deep-strike platforms, making it next-in line of the F-16A/B Block 15s and the Mirage III/5.

Defence analyst Shahid Raza observed, “If my calculations are correct, the aircraft we’ll see being developed under Project Azm 2030 will be a clean sheet design, built around a SINGLE advanced derivative of the WS-15 class engine. It’ll have low observable characteristics and PAF defined specifications.”

JF-17 Thunder Block III
The Pakistan Air Force showcased its lightweight JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, which Pakistan began constructing ten years ago in collaboration with China. The PAF announced its plans to procure around fifty of the JF-17 Thunder’s improved Block III variant by 2024.


Traitor killer @Traitor__killer
https://twitter.com/Traitor__killer/status/1129081972746326017

The final three Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder Block III multi-role combat aircraft are set to be delivered to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by late June.



26
9:51 PM - May 16, 2019
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https://twitter.com/Traitor__killer


The aircrafts are being constructed with a 58/42 percent split, as the airframes are being jointly manufactured by China and Pakistan. The PAF also announced its decision to procure 26 two-seat JF-17Bs with additional fuel storage in a dorsal fin and improved training application for potential strike missions.


Read more: Why IAF Shouldn’t Underestimate The PAF JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jet


A report by National Interest stated that the new Block III is expected to cost around $32 million each. The new version boosts a helmet-mounted display system that is designed to allow enhanced flexibility in the targeting of short-range missiles in close dogfights.


Zain Khan

✔@ZKhanOfficial
https://twitter.com/ZKhanOfficial/status/1129725732136062977

Air Chief Mujahid Anwar Khan has said that production of Block III variant of JF-17 Thunder fighter jets is expected to begin this year.
He further said that a new Chinese radar will be used in these aircrafts.#PAF #JF17thunder #Airforce

The report stated, “The jet intakes are widened to improve airflow, and the Russian RD-93 engine may eventually be replaced by a Chinese manufactured WS-13 turbofan. Additional thrust, combined with lightweight composite materials could potentially boost the type’s speed and range.”
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/...ry-own-fifth-gen-stealth-fighter-jet-program/