Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Syed1.]

No such thing as a '6th Gen' at the moment.

We can't make a 4.5 gen fighter atm completely by ourselves and some here suggesting we skip 5th gen and go for mythical 6th gen. I admire the level of self confidence. Almost like a toddler dreaming of beating Usain Bolt in Olympics 100m.

 

[Titanium100]

No such thing as a '6th Gen' at the moment.

We can't make a 4.5 gen fighter atm completely by ourselves and some here suggesting we skip 5th gen and go for mythical 6th gen. I admire the level of self confidence. Almost like a toddler dreaming of beating Usain Bolt in Olympics 100m.

Dream big...... See yourself BIG... Because you are BIG.... That is the right mentality to progress.. You don't just have to say that but you gotta believe it and live it..

You gotta hang all your scientist if they fail to keep up with the pressure... Only winners should be allowed in the scientist league.. There should be timelines and massive pressure...

 

[Rana4pak]

I think force compositions are moving towards two main types:

1. 'Conventional' fighter designs (aka 4+/4.5-gen) with state-of-the-art electronics and no compromise in terms of agility and maneuverability, but conscious focus on cost-control. South Korea's KF-21 and India's TEDBF/ORCA are good examples of this approach.

2. 'Stealth' fighter designs (aka 5/5+/6-gen) with an emphasis on range, payload, low-observability, etc. The main purpose of these fighters is to carry out strike and other special mission operations.

Thus, the so-called 4.5-gen fighters are here to stay. The specific designs might go away with time (e.g., the Typhoon), but we'll still see future 4.5-gen designs. There's nothing inherently wrong with these fighter types as they cover everything an air force would need bar some niche capabilities.

The stealth fighters would deliver the niche capabilities.

@JamD ... so it turns out my dream re: "next-generation doesn't need to be fifth generation" isn't a nightmare?

The logical step would be further block of jf17 ,which would be 4.5 generation and than move on to 5th generation.block 4 would be like that

 

[Big_bud]

No such thing as a '6th Gen' at the moment.

We can't make a 4.5 gen fighter atm completely by ourselves and some here suggesting we skip 5th gen and go for mythical 6th gen. I admire the level of self confidence. Almost like a toddler dreaming of beating Usain Bolt in Olympics 100m.

If anyone thinks we will be making the engine of this jet indigenously then no, no one is saying that. Our next step can be local assembly of engines but trying to build our own engine is far fetched atm. And if you remove the engine then I think a lot of other systems can be developed in Pakistan if we want to, but all of them won't be manufactured obviously. It does not make sense to do that. Even USA and other manufacturers don't make all their components by themselves. The R&D, time, effort is just too much for that and too much can go wrong. However we can have a 6th Gen fighter at distributor price rather than retail price, if you will

 

[PakFactor]

The logical step would be further block of jf17 ,which would be 4.5 generation and than move on to 5th generation.block 4 would be like that View attachment 749406View attachment 749407

Honestly this is what the current JF-17 should’ve looked like.

 

[SQ8]

Honestly this is what the current JF-17 should’ve looked like.

Pakistani GDP should have looked like $800 billion but we get what we are.

 

[Rana4pak]

Honestly this is what the current JF-17 should’ve looked like.

Next block definitely looks like that bcz now we have new engine rd93ma,plus we have stealth absorbing materials which is new discovery n new ram coating materials we need a mixture of both

 

[PakAlp]

I think Pakistan should probably skip its 5th gen fighter program and buy J20s from China instead and focus on a 6th gen platform in the meantime. Its a bit too late to start for a 5th Gen fighter, considering that it takes 30 odd years to develop a next Gen aircraft from scratch. Its better that we buy 5th gen for now and focus on making a 6th Gen one by 2040 or 2050. USA is already testing prototypes of its 6th gen fighter. China is working on it too. It would be better to join hands with China and try to catch up with the latest tech. Having 5th Gen in 2035 when 1st world would be again flying 6th Gens might bring us back to square one! Plus even in 2035 we will be having a platform that would require further refinement. Proper induction of munition and training of our pilots would take another 5 years or so. (Like in case of JF, we are still integrating new ammunition on it) Our focus should rather be to develop the capability and have the connections with friendly countries to develop a next gen fighter on our own without western reliance, not just to counter India.

Our rival India should have 5th generation jet by 2030-2035 so for Pakistan its acceptable timing. After gaining experiencing on 5th generation, paf will move on to the 6th. We definitely need to work on our own radar, missiles, parts etc.

 

[Trango Towers]

The logical step would be further block of jf17 ,which would be 4.5 generation and than move on to 5th generation.block 4 would be like that View attachment 749406View attachment 749407

This approach is old...
Using this we wouldn't have Google amazon or drones today..

 

[Big_bud]

Pakistani GDP should have looked like $800 billion but we get what we are.

It is actually good that JF 17 does not look like that. As I have been saying, 5th Gen is coming closer and 4th Gen is getting obsolete very soon. We started working very late on JF17 project. Hence its great that it costs very little. The retail for block 1 was reportedly around 20 Million USD, the actual price it costed us must be much cheaper. It would be easy for us to phase these jets out later. Easy phasing out was one of the main requirements for this program which was actually a smart move. An expensive, fancy, twin engined, thrust vectoring, acrobatics pulling aircraft would have become a PITA for PAF to phase out and would have caused hindrance in acquiring funds for future projects that actually matter now.

Cheap & quick to make, cheap to operate, sustainable supply of parts, cheap to upgrade, flexibility of an owned fighter are some of the project's key goals which all were realized. Thanks to JF's block 3 we can maintain a threat for India Rafaels by integrating PL15 missiles. Even if all our fleet was of F16s, we could not have created any threat for Rafaels. Owning a platform gives great flexibility, when you buy an aircraft you get what you get. Thank God for JFs but yes no one should expect from it something it wasn't designed for. Plus with BVR changing the game of air to air combat, super manoeuvrability, twin engined acrobatic shit is no more much important. The guy who has better radar and missiles wins the game. Dog fights will become a rare occurrence in all future combats. It all about stealth, radar jamming, radar range & longer range BVR.

Good looking, aerobatic moves pulling jets will only be used for claps in air shows if they aren't any good with the tech above. JF provides us ability to utilize latest tech and that's the best thing about it.

 

[PakFactor]

Pakistani GDP should have looked like $800 billion but we get what we are.

Your right bro no doubt. It’s just a shame when we look back and see all the incompetence, but as you said we get what we are as that’s what the local body elected sadly.

 

[Rana4pak]

This approach is old...
Using this we wouldn't have Google amazon or drones today..

We still don’t own (Made in Pakistan) any google,Amazon or drones till now. This approach is one side of coin other side we have parallel program AZM

 

[Trango Towers]

We still don’t own (Made in Pakistan) any google,Amazon or drones till now. This approach is one side of coin other side we have parallel program AZM

That was my point .. because we think we can't... we can't.
People are still saying you need experience and an interactive process..what experience and interactive process did the above use???

 

[Rana4pak]

That was my point .. because we think we can't... we can't.
People are still saying you need experience and an interactive process..what experience and interactive process did the above use???

It’s not about approach it’s about backwards educational system which produce workers not enterprisers and our ppl who always afraid of new things and our older generation who were always afraid of unknown worry .

 

[Big_bud]

No such thing as a '6th Gen' at the moment.

We can't make a 4.5 gen fighter atm completely by ourselves and some here suggesting we skip 5th gen and go for mythical 6th gen. I admire the level of self confidence. Almost like a toddler dreaming of beating Usain Bolt in Olympics 100m.

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^One such thing.

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^Two such things.

Tec would change faster with every new generation!