Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Ahmet Pasha]

This is a very real threat. I hope there are some programs in place for this. Small aviation engines shouldn't be out of reach of PAC's capabilities at all.

It is sad to read people post that PAC does not make anything that is geared towards exports by another PDFer on this thread. When even if we sell 6 Azm aircraft we could pay off so much debt. We could make so much money from our own industry. But people for some reason just don't want to pay attention to this.

I usually don't post in these kinds of threads as the threads get too long and its hard to keep up with all the discussions going on. As an engineer by profession I thought I would give my 2 cents.

Regarding a new clean sheet stealth fighter design I think it is too ambitious for PAF due to budget and technical expertise constraints. Now PAF can come with a concept design but taking a project from concept design to design verification to development to prototyping and then to industrialization takes a lot of time and a ton of money which we don't have. Also look at it this way as well if (that is a big if) even we are able mass produce this fighter indigenously it will be too expensive as we won't have many buyers. All the militarizes that have budgets to buy these kinds of expensive planes in numbers have their own programs. The only deep pockets that are left who could potentially buy this plan is the middle east and I doubt they would buy it either as they have access to western tech and they prefer it. I don't think it makes sense to take this route. The best approach I think would be to have a joint venture with other countries so that it can be mass produced. We should try to have an assembly line here not just for the manufacturing and assembly of frame but for subsystems as well and possibly design and manufacture few critical subsystems especially avionics + parts of the frame itself to become cohesively attached to the supply chain.

Having said that I think Project Azm should focus more on

- SAM systems (Area denial with layered approach) missiles, communication and radar systems
- Smart munitions
- Autonomous and Semi autonomous Stealth Drones both MALE and HALE and creating integration between drones and fighter jets
- Drone Swarms or loitering munitions
- EM warfare suites
- High bandwidth communication equipment

Compared to a full fledged fighter jets they are less costly both in terms of R&D and industrialization and in any future war they will be big deciding factor.

Now to achieve this what is most important is a change of mind set of PAF and military in general. They should start investing in private sector in Pakistan with a guaranteed funding (there are always conditions attached e.g profit cannot be taken in certain scenarios) for R&D as employees cannot be retained without it (currently its ... you invest in R&D + industrialization and if we like it we might buy it. I am telling from personal experience of developing and finally deploying some machines for Army related to artillery and tank maintenance). We are facing a multi dimensional problem in R&D sector of Pakistan. We have low quality engineering graduates, we maybe able to field like 1500 max good graduates combined in field of electronics, mechanical, embedded systems, software, materials (almost non existent), physics and we also have a brain drain problem as a lot of them leave Pakistan. This can be changed by investing in local companies as they can retain and train some of these good caliber graduates which would help us ten fold in the long run.

The local companies also have to become more inter-connected and start sharing IP as its the collaboration that helps make an exceptional product. We also need to start importing (with help of R&D budget) test equipment both in electronics as well as material testing.

Now coming towards industrialization. Currently Pakistan does not have any industrial base for high tech equipment manufacturing. Its even hard to find a vendor which can do SMD placement on PCB. Getting a plastic mold from design to manufacturing is a big hassle. I know Kamra has some capabilities but they are for their own use and cannot be used by private sector. We can find most machines from abroad China, Japan etc so that is not going to be a problem if funding is there and I think it should be done by the Universities also as then there will be a teaching component to it with industry having unhindered access to that equipment. What we should focus on is the coming revolution in part manufacturing i.e composites and 3d printing. In the next 10+ years most composite will be 3d printed (along with other processes to make it a finished product) and we wont have access to that specific technology which can mass produce composite part or 3d printed metal parts. This technology is not that difficult to develop compared to a jet engine and it is going to be vital for us in the coming decade. Unfortunately its a big hassle to even import 200$ 3d printer so manufacturing these kinds machines locally is just a dream for now.

I don't know if there is any collaboration going on in Pakistan with like minded individuals with technical expertise as well as with money and connections to make this happen but I hope we do.

Dude I wish I had a Tamgha e Imtiaz to give to you. Write these thoughts in form of a research paper and send them on to AirHQ or GHQ or somewhere. I believe people like us will have to become vocal to drive progress in our industry or we will keep ending up with the Frankensteins HIT and POF produces.

 

[JamD]

It is sad to read people post that PAC does not make anything that is geared towards exports by another PDFer on this thread. When even if we sell 6 Azm aircraft we could pay off so much debt. We could make so much money from our own industry. But people for some reason just don't want to pay attention to this.

I don't want PAC to make aeroengines. I want PAC to put out a tender for the design and production of 500 100hp aeroengines for which Ravi, United, Paksuzuki, Honda, DawoodYamaha can bid for. Will save Pakistan money and create more jobs for Pakistanis.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

I don't want PAC to make aeroengines. I want PAC to put out a tender for the design and production of 500 100hp aeroengines for which Ravi, United, Paksuzuki, Honda, DawoodYamaha can bid for. Will save Pakistan money and create more jobs for Pakistanis.

I am good with that.
I was talking about this:

PAC You Are Missing Out

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/embraer-considers-new-partnerships-for-kc-390-after-boeing-walks-away/138635.article Yo PAC you're missing out on some quality business action. Ask the MoD to re route some of that money being wasted on HIT and POF towards this great investment...

defence.pk

 

[Trango Towers]

View attachment 694941

Some rough pixel counting shows that AZM MALE's wing is 6.5 m long. So it roughly has a 13.5-14 m wingspan.

For reference:
Falco wingspan: 7.3 m
Burraq wingspan: 8 m (Pakistan's largest public UAV)
Shahpar wingspan: 6.6 m

This 13.5-14 m wingspan puts it in the class of Wing Loong I. Maybe Azm's MALE is just a license production/modification of the Wing Loong I, who knows?


Agreed with everything. I wouldn't be this active on this thread if I wasn't hopeful about what PAC can achieve.

Lol...how do you work out the wing span from that Cad drawing

 

[sal29]

I don't want PAC to make aeroengines. I want PAC to put out a tender for the design and production of 500 100hp aeroengines for which Ravi, United, Paksuzuki, Honda, DawoodYamaha can bid for. Will save Pakistan money and create more jobs for Pakistanis.

I don't think it is this straight forward. First of all the requirements for high efficiency piston engine for aerospace have different requirements like low weight, capability to work in reduced pressure and o2 levels. The safety requirements are quite stringent and also we need a seperate specialist for propeller design as well. Ravi, United, Pak Suzuki etc dont have any R&D department at all for engine design let alone a aerospace grade engine.

They maybe able to help with production part but even that is a reach as materials used would be quite different. We need specialist in both R&D and production of aerospace engines to do this task.

 

[JamD]

I don't think it is this straight forward. First of all the requirements for high efficiency piston engine for aerospace have different requirements like low weight, capability to work in reduced pressure and o2 levels. The safety requirements are quite stringent and also we need a seperate specialist for propeller design as well. Ravi, United, Pak Suzuki etc dont have any R&D department at all for engine design let alone a aerospace grade engine.

They maybe able to help with production part but even that is a reach as materials used would be quite different. We need specialist in both R&D and production of aerospace engines to do this task.

Of course currently no one is making aeroengines. I am saying if there was business and profit in it these companies with their specialized manufacturing capabilities are the best suited to design and produce these engines cheaply. Propeller design is not their ambit/contract - that can be someone else, even PAC themselves. Also, these companies do have small R&D departments (obviously not geared towards aeroengine develepment) but they do. Millat has a very good quality control/R&D department that helps them streamline production. My point is that this is low-hanging fruit and PAC should definitely not keep buying aeroengines from abroad or try to set up a factory themselves. If anything the only bottleneck I see is the availability of cheap and appropriate metallurgical inputs.

Rolls Royce is a great example. Company started off making cars in 1904. And at the government's request started developing aero piston engines in 1914. Now look at where they stand. I am sure Ravi can do what gora sahb did in 1914 but look at the key thing - they didn't get up one fine day and realize themselves that they needed to get into aeroengines. It's a strategic industry from contracts (initially) exclusively from government, so the government needed to "give incentives/orders" even to the now world famous aeroengine manufacturer Rolls-Royce.

 

[The Raven]

I usually don't post in these kinds of threads as the threads get too long and its hard to keep up with all the discussions going on. As an engineer by profession I thought I would give my 2 cents.

Regarding a new clean sheet stealth fighter design I think it is too ambitious for PAF due to budget and technical expertise constraints. Now PAF can come with a concept design but taking a project from concept design to design verification to development to prototyping and then to industrialization takes a lot of time and a ton of money which we don't have. Also look at it this way as well if (that is a big if) even we are able mass produce this fighter indigenously it will be too expensive as we won't have many buyers. All the militarizes that have budgets to buy these kinds of expensive planes in numbers have their own programs. The only deep pockets that are left who could potentially buy this plan is the middle east and I doubt they would buy it either as they have access to western tech and they prefer it. I don't think it makes sense to take this route. The best approach I think would be to have a joint venture with other countries so that it can be mass produced. We should try to have an assembly line here not just for the manufacturing and assembly of frame but for subsystems as well and possibly design and manufacture few critical subsystems especially avionics + parts of the frame itself to become cohesively attached to the supply chain.

Having said that I think Project Azm should focus more on

- SAM systems (Area denial with layered approach) missiles, communication and radar systems
- Smart munitions
- Autonomous and Semi autonomous Stealth Drones both MALE and HALE and creating integration between drones and fighter jets
- Drone Swarms or loitering munitions
- EM warfare suites
- High bandwidth communication equipment

Compared to a full fledged fighter jets they are less costly both in terms of R&D and industrialization and in any future war they will be big deciding factor.

Now to achieve this what is most important is a change of mind set of PAF and military in general. They should start investing in private sector in Pakistan with a guaranteed funding (there are always conditions attached e.g profit cannot be taken in certain scenarios) for R&D as employees cannot be retained without it (currently its ... you invest in R&D + industrialization and if we like it we might buy it. I am telling from personal experience of developing and finally deploying some machines for Army related to artillery and tank maintenance). We are facing a multi dimensional problem in R&D sector of Pakistan. We have low quality engineering graduates, we maybe able to field like 1500 max good graduates combined in field of electronics, mechanical, embedded systems, software, materials (almost non existent), physics and we also have a brain drain problem as a lot of them leave Pakistan. This can be changed by investing in local companies as they can retain and train some of these good caliber graduates which would help us ten fold in the long run.

The local companies also have to become more inter-connected and start sharing IP as its the collaboration that helps make an exceptional product. We also need to start importing (with help of R&D budget) test equipment both in electronics as well as material testing.

Now coming towards industrialization. Currently Pakistan does not have any industrial base for high tech equipment manufacturing. Its even hard to find a vendor which can do SMD placement on PCB. Getting a plastic mold from design to manufacturing is a big hassle. I know Kamra has some capabilities but they are for their own use and cannot be used by private sector. We can find most machines from abroad China, Japan etc so that is not going to be a problem if funding is there and I think it should be done by the Universities also as then there will be a teaching component to it with industry having unhindered access to that equipment. What we should focus on is the coming revolution in part manufacturing i.e composites and 3d printing. In the next 10+ years most composite will be 3d printed (along with other processes to make it a finished product) and we wont have access to that specific technology which can mass produce composite part or 3d printed metal parts. This technology is not that difficult to develop compared to a jet engine and it is going to be vital for us in the coming decade. Unfortunately its a big hassle to even import 200$ 3d printer so manufacturing these kinds machines locally is just a dream for now.

I don't know if there is any collaboration going on in Pakistan with like minded individuals with technical expertise as well as with money and connections to make this happen but I hope we do.

I would agree with your sentiments, I am sceptical whether PAC will be able to achieve the targets which have been currently set out due to budgetary and engineering/industrial competence constraints . I see one of two things occurring - if the PAF is insistent on a clean sheet design, specific for its requirements, then the requirements will be watered down significantly and a number of technologies or requirements will have to be compromised. If it doesn't have to be a clean sheet design, then either a collaboration with China (J-31) or Turkey (TFK) is the most likely outcome. An alternative would be to follow a similar strategy as the JF-17 and use a previous design study, either from Russia or China, as a basis and adapt for PAF requirements (the most likely in my view).

Designing and developing a successful fifth gen fighter to an operational standard is no easy task. Aside form the US, no one else has really managed it. The Russians had to forgo true all aspect stealth and instead focus on super manoeuvrability (3D TVC), because the much vaunted "plasma stealth" never really emerged, the Turks are finding out the hard way that if you don't have the core technical competencies, you're still effectively reliant on the whims of foreign powers for critical elements, the South Koreans had to share the cost with partners, and found out that Indonesians were broke, and even Japan, with all its industrial and engineering might, has all but given up after a half-hearted attempt. Only the Chinese have come somewhere close to match the US, but even that took considerable industrial espionage, decades of work, and they're still struggling with engines and other core elements.

 

[sal29]

Of course currently no one is making aeroengines. I am saying if there was business and profit in it these companies with their specialized manufacturing capabilities are the best suited to design and produce these engines cheaply. Propeller design is not their ambit/contract - that can be someone else, even PAC themselves. Also, these companies do have small R&D departments (obviously not geared towards aeroengine develepment) but they do. Millat has a very good quality control/R&D department that helps them streamline production. My point is that this is low-hanging fruit and PAC should definitely not keep buying aeroengines from abroad or try to set up a factory themselves. If anything the only bottleneck I see is the availability of cheap and appropriate metallurgical inputs.

Rolls Royce is a great example. Company started off making cars in 1904. And at the government's request started developing aero piston engines in 1914. Now look at where they stand. I am sure Ravi can do what gora sahb did in 1914 but look at the key thing - they didn't get up one fine day and realize themselves that they needed to get into aeroengines. It's a strategic industry from contracts (initially) exclusively from government, so the government needed to "give incentives/orders" even to the now world famous aeroengine manufacturer Rolls-Royce.

Rolls Royce is great example for it but you also have to understand the kind of funding and human resources they got with the help of the government. Also the dynamics have changed a lot since then. At the time planes could be made in significant numbers in very short time where as these days it takes a lot of time and money to make just one plane. UAVs are no exception as they are also of very high tech machinery. Also even Millet as mentioned in your post actually doesn't design its own engines they have license for it (I think its Perkins engine but not sure). Rolls royce actually designed and manufactured its own engines. I think the best approach here would be to get the right team to develop PAF requirement engine, now they can do that with some existing company or create a new one doesn't matter. For mass production they can try to get help of already established companies but that I also think is sort of a reach.

The ideal situation would be to develop a setup which can also do small commercial planes from private propeller planes to ATR like planes which can be used as city hoppers. What it does it that you have non military revenue stream as you can build up human resources in that industry and can also contribute to military contracts.

Most of all we all have understand that this kind of human resource development as well the industrial aspect cannot happen over night. It takes a very long time and a significant amount of capital. The issue here is no body (the government, military etc) wants to invest in something for which the results are not 100% guaranteed. With this mindset all you would see is something made by someone for which we have a license to manufacture.

 

[sal29]

I would agree with your sentiments, I am sceptical whether PAC will be able to achieve the targets which have been currently set out due to budgetary and engineering/industrial competence constraints . I see one of two things occurring - if the PAF is insistent on a clean sheet design, specific for its requirements, then the requirements will be watered down significantly and a number of technologies or requirements will have to be compromised. If it doesn't have to be a clean sheet design, then either a collaboration with China (J-31) or Turkey (TFK) is the most likely outcome. An alternative would be to follow a similar strategy as the JF-17 and use a previous design study, either from Russia or China, as a basis and adapt for PAF requirements (the most likely in my view).

Designing and developing a successful fifth gen fighter to an operational standard is no easy task. Aside form the US, no one else has really managed it. The Russians had to forgo true all aspect stealth and instead focus on super manoeuvrability (3D TVC), because the much vaunted "plasma stealth" never really emerged, the Turks are finding out the hard way that if you don't have the core technical competencies, you're still effectively reliant on the whims of foreign powers for critical elements, the South Koreans had to share the cost with partners, and found out that Indonesians were broke, and even Japan, with all its industrial and engineering might, has all but given up after a half-hearted attempt. Only the Chinese have come somewhere close to match the US, but even that took considerable industrial espionage, decades of work, and they're still struggling with engines and other core elements.

As I mentioned earlier I also don't think it will clean sheet design as that I think will take too much time and money. I think our focus should be on development of subsystems as these are ones that require constant updates not the air frame and having the capability to update these systems is critical.

The new battlefield is highly integrated. At least now I think PAF sort of understands this that is why they don't want more (by more I mean something new not F16) western fighters as they come with strings attached and we cannot really integrate them with other systems of local or Chinese origin which really doesn't help us at all (I know some people will say they try to procure more F16s but that doesn't count as we already have F16 and we do need to keep that fleet as there is a very large investment already done in human resources as well logistics so it makes sense to get more F16s but not other planes of American/Western origin).

To summarize it all comes back to money and human resource. Unfortunately we have neither. Money we might be able to get it some how but human resource takes time and its unfortunately running out. We really need to get our horses in order especially in terms of R&D. We do have talent but the knowledge just isn't there.

 

[CriticalThought]

So, @HRK has shared some very interesting capabilities of Precision Engineering Complex

PAC | Avionics Production Factory.

My point really isn't about corruption. There are many more private organizations that don't have corruption then those that do. This is "nationalization-lite". We all know how well nationalization of everything works for us. Yes, I am not disagreeing with you rather raising another concern...

defence.pk

Now, when it comes to structural engineering of stealth aircraft, the concept of monocoque vs semi-monocoque becomes extremely important. A fully monocoque structure doesn't have supporting beams. Rather, the entire stress is borne by the skin. A completely non-monocoque structure would have no outer skin. Whereas, a semi-monocoque places some stress on the skin which is supported to some degree by an internal structrue.

Here is the internal structure of F-22:

At this point, I invite the reader to compare this with the structure of JF-17 which has been shared many times on the forum and I can't get myself to search for it. But you will notice that F-22 uses minimal perpendicular joins between supporting beams. The supporting beams of F-22 mostly flow smoothly in a lateral direction.

This lack of perpendicular joins is important for stealth, because each join creates a discontinuity creating a sharp rise in radar signature. But this the lack of perpendicular joins creates a structural strength problem. You need a material for the lateral support beams that is both light weight and has high tensile strength to support the aircraft's weight. Such a material requires especial manufacturing, special machining, and special joining.

This is where PEC comes is. If you checkout the post by @HRK, PEC has most of the facilities to machine the parts of required strength. This leaves us with the joining problem. To date, we do not have insights into PAC's ability to join parts using modern techniques. As an example, today 3D printing is used to completely eliminate the problem of joining. Obviously, this facility is not available to PAC. The other is electron beam welding, which is again unavailable.

Next, consider the fact that all these extremely hi-tech machines and their spares are not made in Pakistan. We are reliant on Western powers for their continuous maintenance. And thus, Western powers can impede your most important national project simply by placing restrictions on the spares for these equipment.

This is what I mean when I say Pakistan isn't an industrialized nation, and merely Kamra city isn't going to make us an industrialized nation. We need to raise ourselves to the level of an industrialized nation to be truly powerful.

 

[Indos]

the South Koreans had to share the cost with partners, and found out that Indonesians were broke, and even Japan, with all its industrial and engineering might, has all but given up after a half-hearted attempt. Only the Chinese have come somewhere close to match the US, but even that took considerable industrial espionage, decades of work, and they're still struggling with engines and other core elements.

Indonesia is not broke. Our economy is relatively fine alhamduliLLAH. The problem with KFX/IFX program is that it is initiated and started by previous administration which become main rival of current ruling party.

Current administration under Jokowi main focus is in infrastructure development and he sees KFX/IFX program as too expensive since our financial contribution for 2 billion USD if it is being converted into Rupiah is about 20 trillion and such money is very large in Indonesian eyes.

We still have other aerospace program that is much less expensive than that but our government also doesnt provide money either like N 245 program that only need around 300 million USD and R 80 program that only needs around 1.6 billion USD to complete their development cost despite all program belongs 100 % to Indonesian with much greater possibility to grow our aerospace industry and get profit. Government only give fund for our Male UCAV program, Black Eagle, with around 38 million USD development cost that also include subsystem development like flight control, SAR radar, and mission system.

For your information our economic stimulus budget this year alone is 49 billion USD and it will be continued with another stimulus in 2021 with relatively similar amount despite will be a bit lower. With this massive stimulus that is financed through financial market (government bonds), Indonesia financial condition is still relatively good with 40 percent debt to equity ratio in the end of 2021 and this is also total external debt (private owned company debt + government debt). We just only use 70% of that 2021 stimulus as in middle of Desember, so a lot of money is still available if government has some sort of urge to finance KFX/IFX program.

https://www.bi.go.id/en/ruang-media/info-terbaru/Pages/Utang-Luar-Negeri-Indonesia-April-2020-Terkendali.aspx

KFX/IFX program is still under renegotiation but our engineers are still contributing with the number reported by Jane Defense in the end of 2019 is about 114 engineers that are mostly designers since at that time the program has just about to complete its detail design phase.

This is more about Indonesian economy condition

UNCTADstat - General Profile: Indonesia

Overview of key economic statistics. The statistical themes covered are: International trade, economic trends, foreign direct investment, external financial resources, population and labor force, information economy and maritime transport.

unctadstat.unctad.org

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

As I mentioned earlier I also don't think it will clean sheet design as that I think will take too much time and money. I think our focus should be on development of subsystems as these are ones that require constant updates not the air frame and having the capability to update these systems is critical.

The new battlefield is highly integrated. At least now I think PAF sort of understands this that is why they don't want more (by more I mean something new not F16) western fighters as they come with strings attached and we cannot really integrate them with other systems of local or Chinese origin which really doesn't help us at all (I know some people will say they try to procure more F16s but that doesn't count as we already have F16 and we do need to keep that fleet as there is a very large investment already done in human resources as well logistics so it makes sense to get more F16s but not other planes of American/Western origin).

To summarize it all comes back to money and human resource. Unfortunately we have neither. Money we might be able to get it some how but human resource takes time and its unfortunately running out. We really need to get our horses in order especially in terms of R&D. We do have talent but the knowledge just isn't there.

Agreed with you sir we should focus on development of subsystems instead of setting ambitious goals as a modern fighter requires the following systems :
1) engines
2) avionics
3) flight control systems
4) composites
5) radars/ datalinks
6 ) advanced low RCS airframe
Instead of developing an entire fighter aircraft we should select a few of these technologies in which we can take the lead and become self sufficient only then should we go for high end stuff like engines and designing flight control or clean sheet airframes ..... we should focus on developing
1) An advanced AESA radar
2) composites
3) avionics components
4) air to air munitions
5) air to ground munitions
6) and facilities to facilitate development and testing of newer indigenous aircraft
7) capability to design both fighter aircraft and drones without relying on Chinese or other allies
After this phase we will be ready to go for a project like Azm just like Turkey did they also started with drones and subsystems and parts manufacturing of aircraft like F16 now they are ready to go for TF X ... PAF shouldn't rush it or else we might end up with a half baked aircraft with majority of components being purchased from other countries and the entire goal of this project i.e self sufficiency will not be achieved.

 

[GriffinsRule]

So, @HRK has shared some very interesting capabilities of Precision Engineering Complex

PAC | Avionics Production Factory.

My point really isn't about corruption. There are many more private organizations that don't have corruption then those that do. This is "nationalization-lite". We all know how well nationalization of everything works for us. Yes, I am not disagreeing with you rather raising another concern...

defence.pk

Now, when it comes to structural engineering of stealth aircraft, the concept of monocoque vs semi-monocoque becomes extremely important. A fully monocoque structure doesn't have supporting beams. Rather, the entire stress is borne by the skin. A completely non-monocoque structure would have no outer skin. Whereas, a semi-monocoque places some stress on the skin which is supported to some degree by an internal structrue.

Here is the internal structure of F-22:

View attachment 697549

At this point, I invite the reader to compare this with the structure of JF-17 which has been shared many times on the forum and I can't get myself to search for it. But you will notice that F-22 uses minimal perpendicular joins between supporting beams. The supporting beams of F-22 mostly flow smoothly in a lateral direction.

This lack of perpendicular joins is important for stealth, because each join creates a discontinuity creating a sharp rise in radar signature. But this the lack of perpendicular joins creates a structural strength problem. You need a material for the lateral support beams that is both light weight and has high tensile strength to support the aircraft's weight. Such a material requires especial manufacturing, special machining, and special joining.

This is where PEC comes is. If you checkout the post by @HRK, PEC has most of the facilities to machine the parts of required strength. This leaves us with the joining problem. To date, we do not have insights into PAC's ability to join parts using modern techniques. As an example, today 3D printing is used to completely eliminate the problem of joining. Obviously, this facility is not available to PAC. The other is electron beam welding, which is again unavailable.

Next, consider the fact that all these extremely hi-tech machines and their spares are not made in Pakistan. We are reliant on Western powers for their continuous maintenance. And thus, Western powers can impede your most important national project simply by placing restrictions on the spares for these equipment.

This is what I mean when I say Pakistan isn't an industrialized nation, and merely Kamra city isn't going to make us an industrialized nation. We need to raise ourselves to the level of an industrialized nation to be truly powerful.

I think we don't have access to 3D metal printing technologies yet. I remember a few years ago, when smaller companies in Europe were first coming out with using powered metals to create parts, a lot of the giants of industry swopped in and bought these companies to ensure their own aerospace and engine manufacturing benefited from it, as well as to deny the technology to their competitors where possible.

Anyone familiar with the industrial base in the country would be able tell us whether Pakistan is able to not only to produce the raw materials required, that is metal powders to be used in say engines or project AZM, but produce them at a consistent high quality from one batch to the next. This will ensure that the product itself is of the same standard. There is and will be ongoing advances in both the production of these powdered metals, but also the techniques in the 3D printing technology over the years, allowing for better heat treatments or more complex structures, faster output and so on.

It seems that the production of the raw materials itself is not that hard theoretically, and Pakistan should be able to create even its own machinery for the purpose if it really focuses on it. The basics are explained in this link, but as you read, there is a lot of determining factors that impact the quality of the metal that is produced, even the shape of the metal particles that are 50-150 microns in size.

How metal powder for 3D printing is made - Engineering.com

www.makepartsfast.com

(PS. There is a wealth of general knowledge information on this site for anyone interested in additional reading. I would love to see PAC using new technologies required for high tech manufacturing, even if they have to start at small, like UAVs, before scaling it up.)

Another resource that explains the type of metal printing.

Types of 3D Printing in Metal

Industrial 3D Printing

markforged.com

 

[Titanium100]

According to this professor Project Azm is more of a 6th generation


Syed Aseem Ul Islam is PhD candidate at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, USA, specializing in adaptive and model-predictive flight control systems. He received his bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering from the Institute of Space Technology, Islamabad, and his master’s degree in flight dynamics and control from the University of Michigan.

https://www.technologytimes.pk/2020...es-to-7-media-questions-about-the-lng-import/
However, in 2019, the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Mujahid Anwar Khan said the ASR was for a “twin-engine, single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”

The inclusion of laser weapons in the ASR is telling as no fifth-generation aircraft includes such systems, which are slated to be part of sixth-generation aircraft. Thus, the ASR alludes to a fighter program that is actually a 5+ generation or sixth-generation aircraft, but this bound to take decades for development.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This should be able to take 10 years which is a considerable timeline and that is if you are going for an overkill in this including lasers and next level sci-fi why not go big if you are trying anyways The laser inclusion is a great addition and shows there is ambition

 

[nomi007]

Today another surprise by PAF
Is it Azm or Bk-03
2 tails single engine.