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Progression of secularism : 'Incest is no longer a taboo,' says Australian judge Garry Neilson

Is NOT secular liberalism absolute madness and goes against the human intellect and conscience ?


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Majority will not agree with the judge. Incest is heinous, and anyone who say it is ok should visit a doctor.

Just want to be a devil's advocate, what you're saying is compatible with the morality and narrative prevalent in today's era, we have no guarantee, as human mind and secularism evolves, such an act might be considered a normal act among consenting individuals. Remember once homosexuals in west used to be referred to psychiatrists for therapy, today those who oppose them are known as homophobic and referred to psychiatrists.
 
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Don't be a racist. You can't just insult people like that. And killing defenseless people and raping women is nothing to be proud of. It was a shameful chapter in our history. And most Pakistanis don't share your hate-filled and xenophobic sentiments. You are a disgrace to our nation.

On topic: Liberalism is not all bad. Our society still has some regressive elements who need to be properly educated and made compatible with modern society. There is no reason why we can't make Islamic culture in sync with modern values. However unnatural practices like homosexuality, incest have no place in civilized society.
Whilst I agree it was a shameful chapter but the killing was not one-sided. Many Bengalis who wanted to be part of Pakistan were killed and many West Pakistanis as well...even after peace was declared.
History is written by the Victors.
 
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It is 'progressive' in the argument that you should not have legal mandates against activities done by consenting adults.

Now...That does not mean there are no limits. For example, if a suicidal man and a cannibal entered a pact where the cannibal kills and eats the suicidal man, do we allow that since both consented to the pact ?

When discussing philosophically and morally contentious issues, it is appropriate and even desirable to go to the extremes in terms of thought experiments, especially when the reality is that what we often calls 'extreme' for us, meaning modern day societies, have been at times practiced as normal by our ancestors.

Yesterday...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2089618?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Today...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gs-defied-law-plan-start-new-life-abroad.html

Put aside the legality and discuss the extreme in philosophical, moral, and historical perspectives. From that extreme can we find common grounds despite our differences and come to a moderated agreement that hopefully will result in a reasonable legal framework for the issue.
again i pose the question how does this allow a nation to progress? Iran for example though very strict has had some excellent scientific gains in nano-tech, space tech, have a good literacy rate etc. Time to come out of a deluded box. What will a brother marrying his sister have to offer to society besides giving a minutiae portion of society have their safe space? Just because it happened in ancient times doesn't mean it is okay, it further validates it backwardness.
 
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Right let explain few things to your Bangla ingrated brain. In the West even cousin marriage is looked down as a degenerate practice. In a godless millieu like China morals, rules and precepts are grounded in laws of nature. It is scientific fact that close relationship marriage will increase the possibility of having unhealthy children. That is why in the West some are suggesting that a public health campaign be launched to stop people like you doing in your cousins because it produces a very sickly race as epitomized by your Bangla people.

You however are going against all scientific facts and assume the Chinese or the West will allow incest which is even worse than cousin marriage as it would have detrimental effect on the nations health. News for you, ingrate, the Chinese and West are busy trying to improve their human stock not commit suicide and sink into the Bay of Bengal. So get a grip on your senses. I personally think when the Pakistan Army was in Bangla that was 'progression'. You of course are at liberty to decide disagree.

Did it occur to Pakistani's here (not bothered about those who have head just above the water) that the two solid allies Pakistan has , Turkey and China are secular and athiest. Go ask the Chinese if they allow cousin marriages let alone incest. As a reminder Chinese have been official athiest now for nearly 70 years. So you want to look at what athiesm is - well China today is perfect example of that. You don't need to go 2036. Just hop over to China.

@Chinese-Dragon @ChineseTiger1986 @beast89 @SinoSoldier @Sinopakfriend
But what if they were to use contraception or were sterilized and could not have children?


Also in the UK the human stock is not improving, perhaps it may be in China but certainly not in the UK.
 
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Don't have to drag the Chinese into it. They are a proud race.
He had to to. He is trying to cause rupture with such explosive and disgustings things like incest. Since the scale looks like this.

Moderate > Secular > Athiest.

The extreme progression of secularismn is athiesm in his mind. Therefore to push his incest theory he had to bring the Chinese in. Most of the West is secular but still retains aspects of Christian tradition. China in it's modern manifestation as the peoples republic is the extreme, purified, uadulterated form of what West can only dream of - a full on athiest society empowered to improve the human condition by using science and reason. It in a sense has arrogated everything to itself in the supreme belief that the Chinese people themselves are the supreme entity.

That is like a silver bullet laced with garlic to people like him.
 
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Also in the UK the human stock is not improving, perhaps it may be in China but certainly not in the UK.
Well you, living in UK would know that, yes? I am sure you have done your level best to send the quotient down a notch or two.
 
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I don't understand any of what you said, it's kind of above my head but I ticked it anyway. Sounds real cool.
What I meant was that we should put aside the laws of our different countries/societies for now. Laws came from moralities, which came from philosophies. To put it simply.

We should go back to the source. Each of us have our personal philosophical perspective on this matter. Be brave and put them out for discussion. No personal attacks, which includes broad swipes at a particular culture.

I will start off...

I am quite a Libertarian, from an American perspective of Libertarianism. For me, it is a question of what are the IMMEDIATE consequences of X that will guide me towards that legal framework.

- An unrelated couple having sex produces no immediate consequences that threatens neither me or society.

- A related couple having sex produces no immediate consequences to me but POTENTIALLY negative consequences to society.

How do I personally reconcile that problem ?

That is my point on how to reasonably discuss philosophically and morally contentious issues.
 
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Well you, living in UK would know that, yes? I am sure you have done your level best to send the quotient down a notch or two.
Insults do not help your arguments. It is best to refrain from them.

So please answer this: what if they use contraception or are sterilized and cannot have children?

Also should it be illegal for non related persons who have diseases that are hereditary and can be passed on to marry one another?
 
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What I meant
I knew exactly what you meant, Gambit, I was only indulging in sarcasm and trying to be funny - clearly I failed on both fronts.

Insults do not help your arguments. It is best to refrain from them.
Fair point. Apology tendered to you. Luffy though can go and jump in the swamp !

Ps. Hey he might even catch some fish in there ..... chuckles .... !!!
 
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Oh my bad but calling others as peddlers of incest including our Chinese friends is all okay, is it?

There is no such thing as 'friends' in modern politics.

Whilst I agree it was a shameful chapter but the killing was not one-sided. Many Bengalis who wanted to be part of Pakistan were killed and many West Pakistanis as well...even after peace was declared.
History is written by the Victors.

Thats all true. But Kaptaan is proud (or acts proud) of rape and murder.
 
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again i pose the question how does this allow a nation to progress? Iran for example though very strict has had some excellent scientific gains in nano-tech, space tech, have a good literacy rate etc. Time to come out of a deluded box. What will a brother marrying his sister have to offer to society besides giving a minutiae portion of society have their safe space? Just because it happened in ancient times doesn't mean it is okay, it further validates it backwardness.
You are correct that just because X occurred at times in history, that does not mean X is appropriate for today.

But that is too broad and too vague of an argument.

Take murder, for example. The philosophical, moral, and legal injunctions against the unjustified taking of a human life have always been a standard of a 'civilized' society. This injunction is old and consistent in every culture, and always been the first to be legally enacted before anything else simply because in order to have a cohesive society, every life must be protected.

So in a manner of speaking, you cannot use that overly broad argument. Sorry.
 
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Long story short.

We have morality laid down in our religion. We do not need to refer outside the Quran, Sunnah and scholarly traditions to figure out what is moral and immoral for us. Personally brother @Luffy 500 I don't bother arguing with secularists/liberals anymore. They will make up a 1000 nonsensical excuses. Allah is enough for us.
 
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Garry-Neilson.jpg


'Incest is no longer a taboo,' says Australian judge Garry Neilson


The District Court Jude said incest was only illegal 'to prevent chromosomal abnormalities'

incest-is-no-longer-a-taboo-says-australian-judge-garry-neilson-9599552.html


Across the world it is considered one of the final taboos – but a Sydney judge has suggested that incest is on a par with homosexuality.


District Court Judge Garry Neilson has been criticised for espousing the view that sexual contact between siblings or between adults and children should perhaps no longer be viewed as “unnatural” or “taboo”, the Sydney Morning Herald reported.

Neilson drew parallels with widely changing attitudes towards gay sex. In the same way, he said, “a jury might find nothing untoward in the advance of a brother towards his sister once she had sexually matured, had sexual relationships with other men and was now ‘available’, not having [a] sexual partner”.

The judge went on to say that incest is only criminalised because of the high chance that any resulting offspring will be born with serious birth defects, but added that “even that [risk] falls away to an extent [because] there is such ease of contraception and readily access to abortion”.

Neilson made the astonishing comments during the trial of a brother charged with raping his younger sister. The man had earlier pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting his sister when he was 17 and she was 10 or 11 in 1973 or 1974 – but pleaded not guilty to the charge of sexual intercourse without consent, with an alternative charge of incest, for the alleged 1981 offence.


However, Neilson refused to admit the evidence from the earlier case. He claimed that the sexual abuse that happened in the 1970s was of a different nature to that which occurred in the 1980s when the girl was 18 and the man 26.

Neilson said: “By that stage they are both mature adults. The complainant has been sexually awoken, shall we say, by having two relationships with men and she had become ‘free’ when the second relationship broke down.

The only thing that might change that is the fact that they were a brother and sister but we’ve come a long way from the 1950s … when the position of the English Common Law was that sex outside marriage was not lawful.”

He added that incest was only illegal “to prevent chromosomal abnormalities” and drew comparisons with the acceptance of homosexuality.

“If this was the 50s and you had a jury of 12 men there, which is what you’d invariably have, they would say it’s unnatural for a man to be interested in another man or a man being interested in a boy. Those things have gone.”


On Tuesday Crown Prosecutor Sally Dowling SC asked the Court of Criminal Appeal to hand over the case to a different judge because of Neilson’s “misogynistic” views.

“These remarks in my submission are completely disgraceful,” Dowling said.

“The reference to abortion is particularly repellent.”

And Nielson has now been referred to the NSW Judicial Commission by NSW Attorney-General Brad Hazzard, who has also asked the Chief Judge of the District Court that Neilson be removed from any criminal trials pending an investigation into the matter.

“I was extremely concerned to read the comments of His Honour Judge Garry Neilson in regard to his views on incest,” Hazzard said in a statement.

“In my view the community would be rightly appalled at his reported comments. Incest is completely reprehensible, unacceptable, disgusting and criminal.”

Dr Cathy Kezelman, the president of Adults Surviving Child Abuse, said the comments were “outrageous”.

“The relational betrayal of the horrors of incest between a brother and sister of any age is abhorrently criminal,” she said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-australian-judge-garry-neilson-9599552.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...dge-says-incest-may-no-longer-be-a-taboo.html

https://www.rt.com/news/171868-australia-judge-incest-homosexuality/

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This judge seem to be a true believer of secular liberalism and his line of argument is perfectly based on secular liberal criterion. Those westerners maligning him seem to be committing a grave sin in secularism by denying the consenting adult siblings sexual freedom and right to choose their partners. :lol: Their guiding principles are scientism , absolute individual freedom, moral relativism , consumerism , materialism and hedonism. This secular liberalism is the religion of the post-christian West and they actually want to impose it on others in the name of human rights , liberty and freedom. They also have their resident agents in the muslim world from Rabat to Islamabad and Dhaka to Jakarta. These agents call themselves "progressive muslims" or "liberal muslims" and they are fighting an uphill battle for the cause of secularism against "evil mullahs" , "reactionary fundamentalist", "Oppressed Niqabis" and "Bearded extremists" . PDF also has fair share of such "progressive muslims" advocating for secularism at any given opportunity.The muslim world should make sure these "progressives" can not progress beyond their households.

@Zarvan @Apprentice @Malik Abdullah @Aslan @Tipu7 @T-Rex @Al-zakir @tesla @Yellow-place @dsr478 @bsruzm @CrimsonFury @Zulkarneyn @HAKIKAT @Jamaal Yelmaaz @jamal18 @LeGenD @Arefin007 @Stannis Baratheon @asad71 @monitor @Psychic @Indus Falcon @Djinn @lastofthepatriots @war&peace @Saiful Islam @django @Sparkle229 @Mrc @alarabi @Decisive Storm @Akheilos @Timur @naveedullahkhankhattak @Talwar e Pakistan @Major Sam
@Ghareeb_Da_Baal @hussain0216 @Azad-Kashmiri @Genghis khan1 @ThE-ShOwStOpPeR @Suff Shikan @user1

@Clutch @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @ebungo @mb444 @Areesh @Kash_Ninja @Assailiant @Moonlight @ebrahym @GenerallyKhan @AUz @PATHAN786KING @Feroz Alam Khan @AsianUnion @James Jaevid @abdulbarijan@That Guy
Seek help.
 
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Isnt marrying your own cousin incest?
 
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