Professionals please analyse Tejas and JF-17 on Airshow performance

[Maarkhoor]

Any comparison between the two jets total idiocy because you can't compare under development platform with proven inducted and operational one.

Jf-17 completed 50000 sorties, 60 jets operational, take part in many air shows, bombing TTP in wazirastan. Let’s wait until Tejas MK2 get operational since MK1 declared full of snags and i believe never going to be operational. Till Mk2 Tejas flies JF-17 block ii almost completed production and we will be on the way to produce block iii so comparison between the two never possible since JF-17 project already left behind Tejas almost decade back.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Any comparison between the two jets total idiocy because you can't compare under development platform with proven inducted and operation one.

Jf-17 completed 50000 sorties, 60 jets operational, take part in many air shows, bombing TTP in wazirastan. Let’s wait until Tejas MK2 get operational since MK1 declared full of snags and i believe never going to be operational. Till Mk2 Tejas flies JF-17 block ii almost completed production and we will be on the way to produce block iii so comparison between the two never possible since JF-17 project already left behind Tejas almost decade back.

Dude... Kitna phaik rah hai yar....


50000 Sorties....really... Kahan kahan se aa jate hain yeh log.

 

[kṣamā]

Any comparison between the two jets total idiocy because you can't compare under development platform with proven inducted and operational one.

Jf-17 completed 50000 sorties, 60 jets operational, take part in many air shows, bombing TTP in wazirastan. Let’s wait until Tejas MK2 get operational since MK1 declared full of snags and i believe never going to be operational. Till Mk2 Tejas flies JF-17 block ii almost completed production and we will be on the way to produce block iii so comparison between the two never possible since JF-17 project already left behind Tejas almost decade back.

Are you sure it is just 50,000 sorties and you dinn miss out like a dozen more zeros. And about that bombing thing, dropping stores at dumb targets is battle tested? That is equivalent to driving around in your driveway and claim you are a avid traveller.

 

[Arun Salian]

Thanks for sharing the video

I am opening this thread as a request to qualified aviation professionals only so that they can analyse and break it down for us mortals how do the two compare only and purely on the basis of their recent performances in Bahrain and Paris Airshows. We would like to hear from you what do you make of different manoeuvres and what do they indicate of aircraft's ability in your professional opinions.

For those who are not professionals in this field, you are desired to ask questions to learn and increase your knowledge. Your general comments and opinions don't mean crap. This thread is NOT about the following.

1. Which one is more indigenous than other
2. Which one stands where in its development/ upgrade path (we are discussing just how they are at the moment)
3. Which of the pilots are more daring or proficient (it's about aircraft not pilots)
4. Why JF-17 did not participate in Bahrain

In short, there are enough threads to troll. Go troll their as much as you like and leave some space for serious work in this thread.

I start with some simple questions

1) How would you compare Thrust/ Weight ratio of the two based on these two shows?
2) How do you compare ability to turn faster and/or tighter of the two?
3) Do you see a relation between choice of manoeuvres and design/ performance of aircraft? In what areas you see one fighter edging ahead of the other (based on their performance in these two Airshows)

@gambit I see no better person to start with.
@Taygibay @Frenchpilot @Vauban @Manticore @jhungary @Khafee @Mil Spec

.

 

[Ind4Ever]

First of all airshows shows shouldn't be the factors of aircraft's capabilities. As many capabilities are kept as secret so your enemies don't know about you capabilities in real war scenarios.

I am opening this thread as a request to qualified aviation professionals only so that they can analyse and break it down for us mortals how do the two compare only and purely on the basis of their recent performances in Bahrain and Paris Airshows. We would like to hear from you what do you make of different manoeuvres and what do they indicate of aircraft's ability in your professional opinions.

For those who are not professionals in this field, you are desired to ask questions to learn and increase your knowledge. Your general comments and opinions don't mean crap. This thread is NOT about the following.

1. Which one is more indigenous than other
2. Which one stands where in its development/ upgrade path (we are discussing just how they are at the moment)
3. Which of the pilots are more daring or proficient (it's about aircraft not pilots)
4. Why JF-17 did not participate in Bahrain

In short, there are enough threads to troll. Go troll their as much as you like and leave some space for serious work in this thread.

I start with some simple questions

1) How would you compare Thrust/ Weight ratio of the two based on these two shows?
2) How do you compare ability to turn faster and/or tighter of the two?
3) Do you see a relation between choice of manoeuvres and design/ performance of aircraft? In what areas you see one fighter edging ahead of the other (based on their performance in these two Airshows)

@gambit I see no better person to start with.
@Taygibay @Frenchpilot @Vauban @Manticore @jhungary @Khafee @Mil Spec

Having said that thanks for opening the thread for reasonable debate. Which am looking for so badly.

I have few questions to all you fan boys and defence professionals and defence experts from all over the world.
I have divided major parameters on which fighter jets can be compared as far as my knowledge. So at least from what we have seen on videos like demo or air shows.

1) Take Off. - Given the fact that airfields are the first targets at times of war Short takeoff with full capacity is very important factor.

Question- What is the minimum take off distance for both

2)Range : This factors is very important for the same reason I have mentioned in point one. At times airbase are created where enemy don't have enough reach. As I may say less probably to be targeted.

3) High Gs : Basic factor which can be used to compare an aircraft's superiority over another. Tight G turns and tight and quick change in course decides the winner at Close combat warfare. WVR

4) Airframe lifetime : This factor is very important for an aircraft which is looking to export to our allies. If an project to be successful it needs more orders to keep it alive and infuse more money into it for upgraded versions.

5) High altitudes : Wow how amazing it could be to target your opponents from where they can't reach? I give it a top most priority for many missions from BVR to Air to ground targeting.

6)Low level flying & stability : My final point am curious is about this. This capability will give an aircraft it's much needed dark spots where it can duck and Dodge the radar signals while flying low. And gives it capability to surprise our enemies.


I like to know about your views on these points.

Good thread thanks

Comparing 2 different Point-Defense 2nd line fighter is not much fun if you don't allow trolls in.

However in my opinion, and which matters most in advanced warfare Tejas fares better than the other simply because it does pack some stealth features due to excessive composite use, and of-course who could deny better Juice-y (Israeli) electronics.

Tejas is a very cleaver design. Who ever helped us it doesn't matters. The delta wing of Tejas it's it more space for different types of weapons carrying capacity and very good for bombing run with low flying capabilities thanks to its delta wing configuration.

Tejas could be more stealthy than JF 17 or Gripin too. Thanks to its composite structure and design in general.

JF17 has its own unique character. But I really think the design is pretty much out dated. Structural remodeling of Tejas is easier and cheaper than in JF17 . But all aircrafts around the world are made for particular country that get accessed by other nations. So in this term JF17 is of Chinese designed for them against Indian Migs and US F16s operators in Asia. So it could fair well with Pakistan with Less airforce budget.

But we know PAF is bent over to aquire F16s and J10 even when they have production line of JF17. That's some official transcript of JF17 I think. All aircraft need to be evolved into the future. Same will go with JF17 and Tejas.

I have to point out that the Chinese experts have appreciated Tejas capabilities and it's designs over JF17 too.

 

[Leviza]

Are you sure it is just 50,000 sorties and you dinn miss out like a dozen more zeros. And about that bombing thing, dropping stores at dumb targets is battle tested? That is equivalent to driving around in your driveway and claim you are a avid traveller.

So even by your logic, F-22 is not properly tested against any similar capable platform .. all new fighters anything above 4.5 generation are not tested as they haven't even tested against 4+ generations..

what a typical indian logic ..

Son, targeting TTP shows how precise bombing it can do and some other technical details...

 

[kalibr]

Dude... Kitna phaik rah hai yar....


50000 Sorties....really... Kahan kahan se aa jate hain yeh log.

50000 pagal h kya....

 

[Ind4Ever]

That's precious of bombs got dropped off. Anyways do you have source to claim your 50000 shorties?

So even by your logic, F-22 is not properly tested against any similar capable platform .. all new fighters anything above 4.5 generation are not tested as they haven't even tested against 4+ generations..

what a typical indian logic ..

Son, targeting TTP shows how precise bombing it can do and some other technical details...

 

[Leviza]

That's precious of bombs got dropped off. Anyways do you have source to claim your 50000 shorties?

Did i claimed it ?

 

[JamD]

That's what I was gonna point out, even after he says Tajas carries two smokewinders, but he says Tejas bleeds more energy while taking sharp turns.

That's not a contradiction. I'm saying the tejas is actually paying a cost by carrying smokewinders. It will perform better without them, possibly bleed less energy in turns. But a full delta by its design will bleed more energy in turns, this is nothing to be shocked by. Every design has its advantages and disadvantages. Where it has many advantages (as I pointed out in my original post), this just happens to be one of the pure delta's disadvantages.

 

[JamD]

My question is.. why JF17 ran away from flying..display .?????? ..not sure about "" china maal""???

Did you not read the OP's thread starting post? Please, this is not the thread for this discussion.

 

[JamD]

@Oscar I'm sure everyone here will appreciate your contribution to this thread. This thread (Allah nazar e bad say bachayay :p ) is still relatively trolling free lol.

 

[knight11]

@Oscar I'm sure everyone here will appreciate your contribution to this thread. This thread (Allah nazar e bad say bachayay :p ) is still relatively trolling free lol.

Here is a good example of destroying the thread, the person is cleaver to attract the posters to response and then keep quite and let the troll war begins. He knows each and every answer but still throw the bate.

@Khafee you should seriously consider this person.

Any comparison between the two jets total idiocy because you can't compare under development platform with proven inducted and operational one.

Jf-17 completed 50000 sorties, 60 jets operational, take part in many air shows, bombing TTP in wazirastan. Let’s wait until Tejas MK2 get operational since MK1 declared full of snags and i believe never going to be operational. Till Mk2 Tejas flies JF-17 block ii almost completed production and we will be on the way to produce block iii so comparison between the two never possible since JF-17 project already left behind Tejas almost decade back.

@Oscar I'm sure everyone here will appreciate your contribution to this thread. This thread (Allah nazar e bad say bachayay :p ) is still relatively trolling free lol.

Here is oscar inputs, thanks for that @Oscar

Round One JF17 - Poor Display By Tejas Took 10 more sec Than JF17 To Go Up | Page 7

 

[Kurlang]

@all .... Please let professionals discuss it as I am sure many of us have wasted our time on useless threads.
I hope an unbiased opinions will be shared.

 

[a4attock]

Whole world is happy for tejas as if it was their own cause every body has little input in tejas u know what i mean