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Professionals please analyse Tejas and JF-17 on Airshow performance

Hmmmm....this is a tricky one:tongue:.
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your chart prove its a fake one, just compare the edited part of F/A16 52+ is the clear sign. leave the rest of the aircraft's,


JUST COMPARE F/A 18 & F/A16 52+ YOU SEE ITS A FAKE....
 
Same things applied to Pakistan also but you Indian always troll and nothing else. From now all Indian must not change the fact for Pakistan also. Finally i am success to teach Indian that JF17 is Pakistani baby.:cheers:
not even the jf17 is pakistani or chinese. the engines are russain, the ejector seats are british, and some ew parts come from spain.
 
Is it my imagination or did I ask people to refrain from 'mine is more indigenous than yours' debate in my thread.

Did I not ask for professional's opinion only and that too only on two Airshow performances?

Rules were simple. Professionals speak. Others shut up and listen!

STOP SCREWING MY THREAD PEOPLE!
 
Any comparison between the two jets total idiocy because you can't compare under development platform with proven inducted and operational one.

Jf-17 completed 50000 sorties, 60 jets operational, take part in many air shows, bombing TTP in wazirastan. Let’s wait until Tejas MK2 get operational since MK1 declared full of snags and i believe never going to be operational. Till Mk2 Tejas flies JF-17 block ii almost completed production and we will be on the way to produce block iii so comparison between the two never possible since JF-17 project already left behind Tejas almost decade back.

https://defence.pk/threads/jf-17-not-as-advanced-as-lca-but-it-can-drop-bombs-nawaz-sharif.76874/

The comparison ended 6 years before dude...
 
sir i would like to ask a question about jf 17 not performing was PAF cautious to see what tejas can pull after software upgrade before FOC ? or PAF was reluctant to be compared head to head with tejas??? because PAF did pay half million non refundable dollers for reserving a seat at the bahrain airshow
 
While comparing 2 videos , My comments ( Layman not expert)

Design

JF is more clean & cute to watch
Tejas - still has a crude look

Take off
Tejas had a quicker take off

Vertical climb
JF was swift but did not prolong or sustain
Tejas did it after some ascent and was able to prolong

In sky
JF felt less flexible and took more wider loops
Tejas felt more flexible and agile

Landing
JF was swift and professional
Tejas was slow and cautious

Overall
JF had the aggressiveness & confidence of its young pilot
Tejas was cautious by the older pilot

Their age reflected
 
While comparing 2 videos , My comments ( Layman not expert)

Design

JF is more clean & cute to watch
Tejas - still has a crude look

Take off
Tejas had a quicker take off

Vertical climb
JF was swift but did not prolong or sustain
Tejas did it after some ascent and was able to prolong

In sky
JF felt less flexible and took more wider loops
Tejas felt more flexible and agile

Landing
JF was swift and professional
Tejas was slow and cautious

Overall
JF had the aggressiveness & confidence of its young pilot
Tejas was cautious by the older pilot

Their age reflected
I am agree with you.
 
sir i would like to ask a question about jf 17 not performing was PAF cautious to see what tejas can pull after software upgrade before FOC ? or PAF was reluctant to be compared head to head with tejas??? because PAF did pay half million non refundable dollers for reserving a seat at the bahrain airshow

Dear sir,

I had requested not to ask this question in my thread. But since you are a new member and have asked nevertheless so here is a short answer.

PAF never planned to participate in Bahrain Airshow. It is not a major Airshow and since we look to target export customers, this airshow is not suitable for that purpose. PAF never paid any money for the show. It is just cooked up story. JF-17 has flown in same shows with Rafale and Eurofighter. It's performance is for all to see in videos. Tejas can not be the reason for not participating. And by the congratulations to Tejas team on their first airshow abroad.

Thanks

@gambit

No love for my thread?
 
Not really.

Usually I don't address fanboys, but you were honest, and seem to be genuine, so I'll make an exception.

What has been observed, is that a delta wing bleeds more energy when turning, but this does not hold true for aircrafts like the EF or the Rafale, because of their higher thrust dual engines, as well as their canards. There is a reason why a very capable aircraft - M2K, has reached the end of its development life cycle, more or less. The M2K was developed into the Mirage 4000, before becoming the Rafale as we know today.

Given the fact that the Tejas will be facing the F-16, and JF-17, it would be best not to indulge in WVR combat,which could actually be a tall order, given the Subcontinents limited airspace.

Given a delta wings limitations, one can not help but wonder why a 7 decades old design was chosen? What were they thinking, that PAF will be flying Sabres?
 
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@gambit

No love for my thread?
Sorry, friend. But there are way too many technical issues with the website. Tried to respond but I got one of those 'cloud' error after a couple sentences. Am not in the mood to compose my comment in notes, save, then post. Let us see when these website technical problems are cleared up.
 
Sorry, friend. But there are way too many technical issues with the website. Tried to respond but I got one of those 'cloud' error after a couple sentences. Am not in the mood to compose my comment in notes, save, then post. Let us see when these website technical problems are cleared up.

Very annoying how often this site goes down. Will wait for your opinion. Take your time.

@Oscar anything to share with us based on OP?
 
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Hello Paksanity mate! I first want to point out that I jumped from your invite to writing,
in other words, I skipped the answers given above so I may be repeating prior opinions.

I always have avoided relying on airshow perfs to rate an aircraft due to IRL discrepancies.
Airshow demos are not representative of combat missions. Quite the contrary, they tend to
downplay some war abilities in favour of impressive maneuvers, impressive from the ground
that is. Airshow configs are at best representative of air policing, sometimes not even that.
Add safety reasons as limiting factors to an all-out flight and you're left with precious little.

Of the showing off motivations, one can note that IAF displays include pre-set elements that
are obviously meant to please the crowds which is normal but not at all combat related. Fin-
ding these in the Tejas Bahrain video, I can't help but subtract them and advice others not to
base conclusions from them. The JF-17 PAF displays are a bit more telling.

In this case, specifics begin with temperature : the Thunder flew on a cloudy 20ish celsius day
in Paris while the LCA got a tad more sun and warmth aplenty. Not comparable.
Then the Thunder is more mature which brings more abilities. Many Pakistani pilots flew it and
could deliver more assured presentations whereas Tejas pilots are still in the learning process
as far as pushing the envelope on their machine.
Last but not least, the LCA is yet to be judged as a fighter and it's more than likely that some of
the routine's elements were chosen to gain approval, going as far as possible to achieve it. The
Thunder's display is more affirmed due to multiple presences at other shows, more coherent.

Further details confirm those differences. Pre-set elements mentioned above show in straight low
level passes and vertical climbs in Bahrain with restraint in performance accepted to woo the crowd.
In reverse, some turns are well below the promised high values of AoA and bleeding energy.
BTW, I used this vid as a complement :
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/index.jsp?pg=videoplay.jsp&vn=video/lca-22012016-3.mp4
Does that mean the Tejas is worst than either the Thunder or expected? Not really!

IMHoO, it simply stems from different aims that result from the different stages those ACs are in.
The Thunder is an active aircraft while the Tejas is still on the threshold between development &
operational status. PAF, PAC and CAC only need to regularly show up at shows to maintain the
image of their product. Crisp demos with casual control give an aura of professionalism and po-
tential buyers get used to this little plane that could being on the list.
DRDO and GoI on the other hand need to establish their fighter which requires caution. Do you
show everything to confirm perfs? Is that even possible on a plane that has development left to it?
Or do you just complete a first foreign soil display and be happy that it shows virtual projection
capacity as attained? Something like : - Mature maybe not but able enough.

There are to my eye, many small bits of doubt on max. metrics for the LCA from that single presence
in an international ( not Indian soil / Aero India ) airshow but I can't guarantee the understanding to
be derived from this without knowing the limitations in parameters forced on that display.
So if I did judge both ACs from these two vids, of course, I'd go for the clearly mature one. But again,
I recommend against drawing too definite assumptions from just that.

Last but not least, the 2 planes have very different roles in their respective air forces. PAF wants JF-17
as their second tier fighter and their goals set is centered on type evolutions, going further tomorrow.
The IAF is being handed the Tejas regardless of any appreciation it may hold of it simply because the
project as a huge national endeavour must be pushed to fruition to offset the immense time and cash
resources already invested. And yet, their top tiers are MKI and hopefully Rafale? What I'm suggesting
is that once again, the two are not comparable even in their place in their respective AFs' Order of Battle.

So yes, the Thunder displays are better but it's too early to tell how much of that will keep when the Tejas
is mature from airshow videos. For now, LCA program managers are probably happy with their first step
in that realm simply because it happened. Once their baby has notched a few more on its belt, face to face
comparisons will hold more water.

Have a great day, Tay.
 
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