Primary threat to Pak is from within, not India

[muse]

What if your to add as a proposition to your little argument

That the adoption of "Cold Start" by the Indian armed forces have served to increase the level of threat the strike corp represent to Pakistan


Will you be able to argue "proven"

 

[Pagla Dashu]

What if your to add as a proposition to your little argument

That the adoption of "Cold Start" by the Indian armed forces have served to increase the level of threat the strike corp represent to Pakistan


Will you be able to argue "proven"

That would be a shift in goal post - a logical fallacy. You are now not arguing if the threat perception is dependent on cold war doctrine but merely trying argue on the degree i.e. the qualitative nature of threat perception (which of course presupposes the pre-existence of this threat perception).

Nope, you still don't get any cigar. Or candy.

 

[LaBong]

What if your to add as a proposition to your little argument

That the adoption of "Cold Start" by the Indian armed forces have served to increase the level of threat the strike corp represent to Pakistan


Will you be able to argue "proven"

So now according to you Cold Start increases the existing threat perception, not a threat by itself.

Wasn't the whole point of the article is to prove that internal turmoil in Pakistan poses more threat to her existence than whatever threat she has from India. As the article is written post-Cold Start, so it must have considered Cold Start as well when evaluating threat from India.

 

[muse]

The goal shifting is done by not including the proposition - but have it your way - the net effect is that what remains is the capability of 70 percent of Indian forces arrayed against the Pakistan border and therefore that India are the primary threat to Pakistan - the only thing not getting any cigar or candy will be the proposition that Indian are not the primary threat.

 

[muse]

Wasn't the whole point of the article is to prove that internal turmoil in Pakistan poses more threat to her existence than whatever threat she has from India.

Indeed it was and it was simply wrong.

 

[Pagla Dashu]

The goal shifting is done by not including the proposition - but have it your way - the net effect is that what remains is the capability of 70 percent of Indian forces arrayed against the Pakistan border and therefore that India are the primary threat to Pakistan - the only thing not getting any cigar or candy will be the proposition that Indian are not the primary threat.

If I am scared of Santa Clause, because he has long white beard, thats not Santa Clause's fault.

They say, perception is reality. You can have your reality. No problem. Just don't shift the blame to India by citing silly excuses.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Owing to the Massive Troops Deployment across the Indo Pak Border by the Indian Military ,Pakistan's inability to go for the terrorists in North Waziristan is a necessary Evil.The issue of Indian influence in Afghanistan directed primarily to create unrest in Pakistan further jeopardizes the cause of WOT and hence Pakistan is not left with Options to devote resources to Further Open up new Fronts of War.
It maybe some how possible to tame the terrorists in a timespan of few Decades but Its not at all favorable to contour massive Indian Military under a Cold Start Doctrine provided its given a Chance to Strike seeking some sort of Advantage if in case New Fronts are Opened without consolidating the gains in the territory recently recovered from Terrorists.

Pakistan can afford to fight the militants on its own Time line, But can in no way afford to Fight the Massive Indian Army Deployed Along Its Borders...!!!!

 

[muse]

Fratello Chemico


There are some who for the sake of politics are now making the rounds suggesting the Indian is not the primary threat, this is line with the US seeking to have the Fauj launch operations in NWA.

While internal terrorists are a threat, they are not anywhere the quality of threat the Indian armed forces represent - and to be honest, "cold start" has made that threat even more of a threat - so if the Indian will not move his troops and tanks and aircraft, then the US will have to wait.

On the other hand we have made absolutely quantum strides with regard to the kind of equipment, we can now bring to bear on the Indian strike forces - the 3 to 1 advantage that Indian aggressors would need under "cold start" is no longer available to them and every day, that advantage is further diminished. But the Indian has been busy as well.

What is gratifying is that we have been able to demonstrate what while the internal terrorist threat is real and painful, the Indian threat remains a more dangerous capability that Pakistan must confront.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

I really don't know why indian members trying to impose something on pakistani members which they don't wana accept.. Let them think this way, its not our fault if they can;t realise, which is bigger threat for them internel turmoil with almost daily terrorists attacks or india...

And about indian armed corps ,almost most of these corps are station in central india(nothern part) and that is not only for pak but for china also...so saying that our 70% forces are pak specific thats all BS...We need to c china also ,unlike you..

Even in india we say naxals are bigger threat then anything else(not even china)....cause our mindset is diff from yours,,and i request indian members not to impose it on them.

Let it be like it, let them think whatever they want....

 

[muse]

c

ause aur mindset is diff from yours

Amen to that, bratha.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

c

Amen to that, bratha.

Amen bro, and i am Glad that it is....

 

[bandmaster]

Instead of snarky sarcasm try discussing why India places most of its forces on the Pakistani border.

Haha. I was being too obvious, I guess.
The fact is, India's troop levels at the Pakistani border can be justifiably seen as threatening.
A stabilizing deployment would see more Pakistani troops at the Indian border, fewer Indian troops at the Pakistani border, and far more Indian troops at the Chinese border.
I suspect that the IA is will move divisions accordingly in the long term. It's a slow process. Reduction in incursion attempts across the LoC will certainly help in troop withdrawal.

 

[hembo]

@ Muse

Your whole argument is centered around the logic that since India has a cold start doctrine, she is the greatest threat to Pak.

Now let us examine two things:

a) In which scenario, the cold start doctrine is likely to be pressed into action
b) What were the precedents that has led to formation of this so called doctrine.

Answer to (a) would be; In case of another wave of Pakistan rooted terrorist attack inside Indian soil apart from J&K perhaps, Another Kargil type advetures etc.

Answer to (b) unfortunately is also almost similar to (a).

Now what does it tells us? Unless there is an action by stateless or oher-wise agencies inside Pakistan, there is not going to be any attack on Pakistani soil by Indian forces. Therefore, the root cause for any eventuality arising from India's cold start also lies within Pakistan. So rooting out this state-less or other-wise extremism from inside Pakistan will ensure 100% security of Pakistan (i.e. asuming the cold start doctrine works and neglecting the available deterence of Pakistan).

 

[muse]

Your whole argument is centered around the logic that since India has a cold start doctrine, she is the greatest threat to Pak

Certainly this is not the whole of my positon - rather it is that Indian have positioned more than one half million soldiers, more than 3000 tanks and hundreds of war planes on the Pakistani border - with regard to cold start, I argued that under this doctrine, the strike formations, their logistics and their their composition is such that the threat is amplified.

Listen, do try to understand, professionals do not look to stated "intentions", they pay more attention to capability - and I think it will be labored case to make that these strike formations do not have capability, in fact under cold start their capability is enhanced - so really as long as these formations are composed and situated and they are, the threat based on capabilities remains

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Certainly this is not the whole of my positon - rather it is that Indian have positioned more than one half million soldiers, more than 3000 tanks and hundreds of war planes on the Pakistani border - with regard to cold start, I argued that under this doctrine, the strike formations, their logistics and their their composition is such that the threat is amplified.

Listen, do try to understand, professionals do not look to stated "intentions", they pay more attention to capability - and I think it will be labored case to make that these strike formations do not have capability, in fact under cold start their capability is enhanced - so really as long as these formations are composed and situated and they are, the threat based on capabilities remains

So, by your post you mean its not the intentions its the capabilities which matters...

But you need to understand that indian defence requirments are much more then pakistans both in terms of quantitiy an quality cause we need to keep eye on china too...and for pak its only india...

And about formations of corps in india... these corps are there from long time, they are not situated there after mumbai attack or something, and chiness border is also near to north east states. so the formation of our forces will remain same...they can;t be changed

And you also needs to understand that india is not brainless that it will attack pak without any reason and halt its booming economy without any reason...Unless there is terrorist attack from pak based terrorists again...You even saw the level of restrain shown by GOI even after mumbai attack when everyone was expecting about war...

Now back to article,,just take a brief look at article and think from both sides(internal and external) not just externaly,,,,i hope you will get the answer by yourself.