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President may free condemned Christian woman

Obviously they are not the same things.And the Action taken under the Religious Dogma is untenable in this age of Information Revolution and Freedom of Speech.I was just curious how Catholic Love for this women has erupted and came to her rescue to save her.And that effort is being strengthened up by loads of other groups which have played a role for separating a Religion from State Affairs.

Unreasonable argument, the situation is such that it calls for a collective response by different groups who in this situation have combined their voices to get the correct recourse. As for the common cause in this particular situation, it is a life of an innocent and poor women.

Such an occasion would make opposing groups amicably join hands for the greater good. As for those who you deem to have played a role in separation of state and church. They also condemn and criticize Catholicism and its many ills.

My Point completely ment to highlight the fact that Aren't Banning Veil and Blasphemic laws in Essence Correlated ?? And yet it earns the support of most who waste no time taking action against Blasphemy(Religious)??

Yes and no, the banning of veil is a symbolic sign from a nation that wants to remain consistent. They want to affirm their status as the nation who burned down churches because of the harm they caused. However certain sections have implemented this law only to restrict laws of a group that they cannot tolerate.

Its a multi-faceted decision that has layers of complicity.

Like Terrorists Blasphemic Laws come in All forms. But kudos to the President and the Gov who took this bold step. Righteous Deed.

The right step would be abolish such laws, then due appreciation should be paid to the government.
 
Dear EgO Boy, as I see it in context of quranic islam there is no room for blasphemy law.

If you like we can have discussion about it but may be you should read my earlier posts before we start.

Islam as taught by madrassas is not the quranic islam. Please see the video discussions I have posted in this thread as well.

It is very clear from the islamic literature by knowledgeable muslim scholars of islam that rulers of muslims have been interfering with islamic sources right from the beginning to give themselves legitimacy.

It is these muslims rulers who have been making laws and calling them islamic to abuse muslims and nonmuslims under their rule or jurisdiction in the name of islam.

Watch the following series by shia ulema






my regards and best wishes
 
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We think that by adorning us with the vestaments of a theocratic state, we are somehow fulfilling the promise of Pakistan. Unfortunately, these clothes do not even exist, and the emperor is naked underneath.

Pakistan must get rid of such rubbish which has been collected under the guise of islamisation and burn it, or swoon with the intensity of the stench.

The namoose risalat laws are a mockery of justice and a slap on the face of humanity, not to mention various islamic norms.

If this law is exist than this is the law of Pakistan and nobody has exclusion from it, if she hold the claim of non verdict than she has total right of appeal in high court and supreme court or federal shariat court.
And if president going to free & forgive than God is observing everything, for example you guys has to read SURA LAHAB, God answering for his prophet so it is our believe that if she done something then she can't get away from the azab of God.
 
Dear EgO Boy, as I see it in context of quranic islam there is no room for blasphemy law...It is very clear from the islamic literature by knowledgeable muslim scholars of islam that rulers of muslims have been interfering with islamic sources right from the beginning to give themselves legitimacy.
Well, if you are that confident, why not hold a blasphemy party? Even if you don't believe in it yourself, I can't imagine a stronger way to express your support of this woman, can you? For if Muslims show it's O.K. to blaspheme, surely there is no way a Christian can be punished for doing so, yes?
 
Dear EgO Boy, as I see it in context of quranic islam there is no room for blasphemy law.

If you like we can have discussion about it but may be you should read my earlier posts before we start.

Islam as taught by madrassas is not the quranic islam. Please see the video discussions I have posted in this thread as well.

It is very clear from the islamic literature by knowledgeable muslim scholars of islam that rulers of muslims have been interfering with islamic sources right from the beginning to give themselves legitimacy.

It is these muslims rulers who have been making laws and calling them islamic to abuse muslims and nonmuslims under their rule or jurisdiction in the name of islam.

Watch the following series by shia ulema

YouTube - IZHAR-E-HAQEEQAT????? ????? (Episode01) part 01 to 11 HIDAYAT TV 23-09-10 (ALI SHAH ABIDI)

YouTube - Maulana Ishaq (Ahle-Sunnat) Muslim Unity Part 1 of 2 (Urdu)

YouTube - Shiai and Sunni Islam Explained

YouTube - SHIA VS SUNNI MUNAZRA 1

YouTube - MUNAZRA SHIA VS SUNNI 1

my regards and best wishes



The punishment for blasphemy in most of the major religions is death. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and the Christians:


And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]


Moreover, if we read Manusmriti, the Law book of the Hindus, it says:

“If a man born of a lower class intentionally bothers a priest, the king should punish him physically with various forms of corporal and capital punishment that make men shudder.” [Manusmriti 9:248]


Regarding the punishment for blasphemy in Islam, it is mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an:


“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;” [Surah Al-Maidah 5:33]. In Islam, a person who has committed blasphemy can either be killed or crucified, or his opposite hands and feet can be cut off, or he can be exiled from that land. On the other hand, in other religions there is no other option except capital punishment. Islam at least has four options of punishment for an act of blasphemy.


In spite of all the negative propaganda in a section of the western media, ironically Islam still happens to be the fastest growing religion, not just in the west but also across the world. The more people try to suppress Islam, the more it will prevail. Allah (swt) will make His Deen (Islam) to prevail over all the other ways of life irrespective of people mocking and ridiculing His messengers. As Allah says in the Glorious Quran:


“Mocked were (many) Messengers before thee; but the scoffers were hemmed in by the thing that they mocked.” [Surah Al-An’aam 6:10].


My regards and best wishes.
 
@ego boy
According to you if she have committed blasphemy she will get punishment from allah,even if pakistani court let her go.And allah knows the truth of everything.
On the contrary we humans have no means to know for sure whether she did commit blasphemy or was falsely accused of,since we have no video proofs or anything.Also note that in pakistan there are a lot of cases where non muslims are falsely accused of blasphemy.So isn't it a better option to leave such cases to allah and let her go ?since we have no means to know the truth and allah can easily know the truth.
 
@ego boy
According to you if she have committed blasphemy she will get punishment from allah,even if pakistani court let her go.And allah knows the truth of everything.
On the contrary we humans have no means to know for sure whether she did commit blasphemy or was falsely accused of,since we have no video proofs or anything.Also note that in pakistan there are a lot of cases where non muslims are falsely accused of blasphemy.So isn't it a better option to leave such cases to allah and let her go ?since we have no means to know the truth and allah can easily know the truth.

How you find the rapist in real world? How you find a murderer? How you find robber? There are ways to find the criminal, and same process can be used here (Apparently, showing its been done here). Yet our so-called leaders want to go against the Laws for which they toke oath to protect it.

There is a Civil Court, She can then go to high court, and then supreme for justice. Nothing wrong done here, as the process is being followed. Then why the Hell, Mr. President putting his *** in the matter of justice?
 
@fracker
Are you suggesting that there are specific methods by which court can find out whether the one accused of blasphemy indeed blasphemed or not?Please tell me how can this be done?Consider this-i am a muslim and you a non muslim living in pakistan,i accuse you of blasphemy and how can court find out whether you did infact commit blasphemy or not?
 
@fracker
Are you suggesting that there are specific methods by which court can find out whether the one accused of blasphemy indeed blasphemed or not?Please tell me how can this be done?Consider this-i am a muslim and you a non muslim living in pakistan,i accuse you of blasphemy and how can court find out whether you did infact commit blasphemy or not?

Specific Method? Please list down how the investigation happen for normal criminal case, you will get the answer for your self.

Here are some evidences on which civil court given the wordic

1. The women who was accused, accepted that she said so and so (which is considered to be Blasphemy)
2. more then 3 Witnesses were Present in the court

Blasphemy Law is not only for Non-Muslims, from 2001 upto till more then 50% people who were accused for such act were muslims.
 

The government should not allow itself to be bullied by these fanatics.

These bigots need to be reminded the white in our flag represents the minorities and their right to existence in peace to practice their beliefs without fear or prejudice.

pakistan-flag.gif


If they don't like it, the you go elsewhere. Enough is enough.
 
The punishment for blasphemy in most of the major religions is death. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and the Christians:


And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]


Moreover, if we read Manusmriti, the Law book of the Hindus, it says:

“If a man born of a lower class intentionally bothers a priest, the king should punish him physically with various forms of corporal and capital punishment that make men shudder.” [Manusmriti 9:248]


Regarding the punishment for blasphemy in Islam, it is mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an:


“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;” [Surah Al-Maidah 5:33]. In Islam, a person who has committed blasphemy can either be killed or crucified, or his opposite hands and feet can be cut off, or he can be exiled from that land. On the other hand, in other religions there is no other option except capital punishment. Islam at least has four options of punishment for an act of blasphemy.


In spite of all the negative propaganda in a section of the western media, ironically Islam still happens to be the fastest growing religion, not just in the west but also across the world. The more people try to suppress Islam, the more it will prevail. Allah (swt) will make His Deen (Islam) to prevail over all the other ways of life irrespective of people mocking and ridiculing His messengers. As Allah says in the Glorious Quran:


“Mocked were (many) Messengers before thee; but the scoffers were hemmed in by the thing that they mocked.” [Surah Al-An’aam 6:10].


My regards and best wishes.

Thank you dear EgO Boy for your views on this matter.

As for scriptures of various religions, they are not laws for people in those religions in the majority countries of those people eg looking at israel, they do not take their laws from torah, nor majority christian states take their laws from the bible. I can say the very same about hindus so you can see that most people of most religions do not understand their religions as you asume them to.

The same is true about islam and muslims. You can see that muslim ulema of different sects differ as to what is and what is not islam. Not only that but they differ as to what law is according to islam and what is not law according to islam. Hanafi, shafai, malaki, hambali, jafri etc are just an example for that. Besides ibn taimiya, ibn qayyam, muhammad bin abdul wahab, sir seiyed ahmad khan, alama iqbal, ghulam ahmad parwez, muhammad ali jinnah and list keeps going on had their own views about what islam is and what islamic law is. In fact if we look into understanding of religion amongst soofia we again have more differeent opinions.

This is why I requested that you read my earlier posts to see where I am coming from. There is a major difference in what islam is in the quranic context and what muslims make of it by their own various interpretations of it.

There are at least three major points about which we can have a discussion so that I could show you that islam as understood by majority of muslims is not islam that is in the quran.

1)Islam is not a comprehesive code of laws for ever. It is a set of directives within which people can make laws as they see fit for the benefit of the society.

2)Sunnah does not mean living like the prophet in 7th century arabian setting, doing things exactly the same way the prophet did.

3)Rule of abrogation does not apply to the quran.

All beliefs and laws based on wrong notions of islam are unislamic and false.

This is more than sufficient to prove that muslims are wrong in many things and therefore may as well be wrong as regard blasphemy law.

I would like you to consider the main reason, why the prophet was driven out of makkah? Not because he preached monotheism but because he spoke up against injustices and unfairness and corruption in the society of which he was a member.

It were chiefs of makkah who he was speaking up against just like moses spoke up against pharaoh in egypt. Read the story of abraham and same thing is there.

So islam has a social base as its context read surahs revealed in makkah. In short the prophet struggled to create a fair and just society that cared and shared things and lived like a family.

If it is true that islam is based on these principles then such a society has to have an attitudes and approach that is mainly about forgiving and forgetting not tit for tat and revenge.

If this is true then laws of any such society have to be such which address and fulfil peoples' heartfelt needs, concerns and requirements the best they can so that people are happy with them. Any laws that are forced on society from the top cannot work because the soceity will not cooperate with the authority and so they will be useless.

If islam is from god and god is creater of people then both must reflect each other in ground reality othewrwise the claim that islam is from god or he created people is false.

This is why implementation of proper laws is not possible unless society is first educated about this and is ready to take it on. A society which is not ready for all this shows by its clues as to how they are responding to the idea. One can see what laws a society has, for what purpose, how they got them, how they enforced them and what are the consequences or results of the whole process. If the end result is not satisfactory then society is obviously doing some thing wrong in some respect.

It could be that purpose of laws is not good, the source of laws is not good, the law itself is not good, the enforcement is not good etc etc. Unless each and every stage of laws is good the whole thing become a useless exercise, a wate of time and may even lead to destruction of whatever little is already there leaving it without any social foundation to build on.

In pakistan like country where society is divided very badly no law can work and satisfy all concerned. The first step is to try and unite society or atleast see what are common grounds between all the citizens of pakistan because all are equal citizens with equal rights and responsibilities. Then give people,only those laws that help them upto that stage and then continue trying to educate people to create more and more concensus as much as possible and continue bringing in more and more laws that are according to need of people and the situation. This is necessary for building a good soceity.

If we force things on very differing sections of society on basis of favouratism unfairly and unjustly then they will only and only create more and more divisions and troubles through suspicions, mistrust and distrust. Conspiracies will become common place between groups to further their own interests at expense of others and things will get out of control and the country will be destroyed. Just like a family whose members are not happy with each other because some try to do what others do not like.

LINK TO MY EARLIER POSTS

YouTube - IIPC (2004) 01/04 Islam / Peace / Muslim / Submitter What Quran says speaker Mohammad Shaikh

I shall say more once I have your thoughts on my explanation of things so far.

Thank you again for your participating and giving me opportunity to learn because ideas breed ideas.

regards and all the best.
 
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The same is true about islam and muslims. You can see that muslim ulema of different sects differ as to what is and what is not islam. Not only that but they differ as to what law is according to islam and what is not law according to islam. Hanafi, shafai, malaki, hambali, jafri etc are just an example for that. Besides ibn taimiya, ibn qayyam, muhammad bin abdul wahab, sir seiyed ahmad khan, alama iqbal, ghulam ahmad parwez, muhammad ali jinnah and list keeps going on had their own views about what islam is and what islamic law is. In fact if we look into understanding of religion amongst soofia we again have more differeent opinions.

Sorry to disappoint you, but most of the different sect of Islam actually agree on Social Laws of Islam i.e. Shariah. We have seen this, during ZAB time's when he invite scholars from all sect, who then agreed upon 36 points to be implemented in Pakistan, to make Pakistani Law compliance with Shariah.

Also, all the sunnah's can be followed as of today, it is just matter of willingness and choice.
 
We think that by adorning us with the vestaments of a theocratic state, we are somehow fulfilling the promise of Pakistan. Unfortunately, these clothes do not even exist, and the emperor is naked underneath.

Pakistan must get rid of such rubbish which has been collected under the guise of islamisation and burn it, or swoon with the intensity of the stench.

The namoose risalat laws are a mockery of justice and a slap on the face of humanity, not to mention various islamic norms.

The problem is not with the laws which are Allahs laws and as a muslim your duty to implement. Whether you choose to do so or not is another matter. One of my very close relative has fought to have the hudood laws repealed. However, the root cause of the problem is the way in which these laws were implemented without thinking. I personally think these laws should be thoroughly reviewed by educated scholars with knowledge of islamic matters and then reimposed. It is also the duty of the Majestrate/Judge enforcing the laws to ensure that all requirements of the law have been fulfilled before pronouncing judgement.
Araz
 
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