Powering the Solar Revolution In Pakistan

nomi007 · Apr 6, 2021

When will Pakistan start manufacturing solar cells and Batteries.

_NOBODY_ · Apr 6, 2021

nomi007 said:
When will Pakistan start manufacturing solar cells and Batteries.

Pakistan must start manufacuring Solar panels, this will dramatically reduce the price of solar panels here. News like these make me happy: UET Peshawar develops low-cost solar panels to be unveiled this week (techjuice.pk)

Cookie Monster · Apr 6, 2021

_NOBODY_ said:
I have no plans for that. I clearly stated that I will be using "on grid system" as I don't want to buy, maintain and replace batteries. All excess electricity will be sold to the government so instead of paying electricity bills the government will be paying me instead.

Yes I read the "on grid system" part. I'm aware that any excess power generated that's not used by ur household is sent to the grid and that amount is credited to the person. I was just curious if u were going to use a battery as well...bcuz u can still use a battery regardless of being on grid or not. Some ppl do it so instead of using electricity(from the grid) during peak hours(which costs more per unit) instead they rely on electricity generated from the solar panels and the stored up energy(in the battery).

Mujahid Memon · Apr 6, 2021

Goenitz said:
In 2005, the annual global energy demand was 13 terawatts (TW) or 4.1×1020 J. Every country needs power sources for its economic growth. By 2100, the world with new emerging economies and a growing population will require an energy demand of around 46 TW

Solar radiation is the primary source of energy on Earth. It drives air and ocean currents and essential to animal and plant life. Annual calculated solar radiation on the Earth surface is around 120 thousand TW. The total value of other clean energy sources is not suitable to sustain global demand. For instance, according to UN estimates, the remaining global hydrostatic potential is 0.5 TW. Ocean tides at any moment contain approximately a total of 2 TW of energy. Extracting all the energy from wind and tidal waves is not possible as it would mean the ocean and air current turn motionless. At the same time, total extractable wind power is around 2-4 TW.

Solar radiation is abundant, and just by covering 0.16% of the earth surface with 10% efficient solar cell can generate 20 TW of power. The main issue with solar cells is their cost. To replace our electricity demand, it is 5-10 times expensive than fossil fuels derived plants and can be 50 times more costly than fossil fuels as a primary energy source

Basic Research Needs for Solar Energy Utilization

Basic Research Needs for Solar Energy Utilization. Report of the Basic Energy Sciences Workshop on Solar Energy Utilization, April 18-21, 2005 (Technical Report) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

Actually every form of energy on earth is directly or indirectly solar energy, be it fossil fuels, wind, hydro or tidal power etc.

_NOBODY_ said:
Pakistan must start manufacuring Solar panels, this will dramatically reduce the price of solar panels here. News like these make me happy: UET Peshawar develops low-cost solar panels to be unveiled this week (techjuice.pk)

I am more interested in synthetic photosynthesis to convert solar energy into chemical energy such as ethanol.

denel · Apr 6, 2021

Cookie Monster said:
Yes I read the "on grid system" part. I'm aware that any excess power generated that's not used by ur household is sent to the grid and that amount is credited to the person. I was just curious if u were going to use a battery as well...bcuz u can still use a battery regardless of being on grid or not. Some ppl do it so instead of using electricity(from the grid) during peak hours(which costs more per unit) instead they rely on electricity generated from the solar panels and the stored up energy(in the battery).

Two ways to do it.

1. Completely off grid; any excess you lose.

Solar/wind---> Store into Batteries--> Run off batteries.

2. Same as 1 but you connect to the grid.

_NOBODY_ · Apr 6, 2021

Cookie Monster said:
Yes I read the "on grid system" part. I'm aware that any excess power generated that's not used by ur household is sent to the grid and that amount is credited to the person. I was just curious if u were going to use a battery as well...bcuz u can still use a battery regardless of being on grid or not. Some ppl do it so instead of using electricity(from the grid) during peak hours(which costs more per unit) instead they rely on electricity generated from the solar panels and the stored up energy(in the battery).

I see, you are talking about a hybrid system. I am considering a hybrid system as well with one battery since you never know there maybe a blackout once in a while. Though I will have to throw my UPS in trash but I will try to sell it then.

denel · Apr 6, 2021

Mujahid Memon said:
Actually every form of energy on earth is directly or indirectly solar energy, be it fossil fuels, wind, hydro or tidal power etc.

I am more interested in synthetic photosynthesis to convert solar energy into chemical energy such as ethanol.

you dont need that--- getting ethanol is fermentation. Just follow the brazilian method. they do this for most of the fuel using sugarcane.

Cookie Monster · Apr 6, 2021

denel said:
Two ways to do it.

1. Completely off grid; any excess you lose.

Solar/wind---> Store into Batteries--> Run off batteries.

2. Same as 1 but you connect to the grid.

There is a third option sir..which is what my question was about.
1) Completely off grid(solar, wind, etc.)...any excess is lost
2) Off the grid(solar, wind, etc.)...excess gets stored in battery(or batteries) for later use like when the sun isn't shining(cloudy or night time) or when the wind isn't blowing or simply when the power consumption is much higher than what is being generated...and hence the batteries kick in.
3) Solar(and/or others) + batteries while on the grid. With this...the excess energy generated is stored in the batteries first...once batteries top out...the rest of excess energy generated is fed into the grid for which u r credited per unit.

The advantage of the third option is..that not only is there no waste of excess energy that's generated. U can also save even more money. I'm not sure about other places but where I live...any excess energy that's fed into the grid...the amount credited per unit is a flat rate. So it doesn't matter if the energy being sold by ur solar capacity back into the grid...is being done during peak hours or during some other time...it's a flat rate. While on the flip side...if u didn't have a battery...and the amount u r consuming is more than what's being generated(hence u r drawing on some additional amount from the grid)..if it's during peak hours...u will pay for a higher cost per unit of electricity used...as opposed to non peak hours. Hope it made sense.

Also...when u get a chance...could u open that thread about that thing u mentioned...something about vision...or pictures?

denel · Apr 6, 2021

Cookie Monster said:
There is a third option sir..which is what my question was about.
1) Completely off grid(solar, wind, etc.)...any excess is lost
2) Off the grid(solar, wind, etc.)...excess gets stored in battery(or batteries) for later use like when the sun isn't shining(cloudy or night time) or when the wind isn't blowing or simply when the power consumption is much higher than what is being generated...and hence the batteries kick in.
3) Solar(and/or others) + batteries while on the grid. With this...the excess energy generated is stored in the batteries first...once batteries top out...the rest of excess energy generated is fed into the grid for which u r credited per unit.

The advantage of the third option is..that not only is there no waste of excess energy that's generated. U can also save even more money. I'm not sure about other places but where I live...any excess energy that's fed into the grid...the amount credited per unit is a flat rate. So it doesn't matter if the energy being sold by ur solar capacity back into the grid...is being done during peak hours or during some other time...it's a flat rate. While on the flip side...if u didn't have a battery...and the amount u r consuming is more than what's being generated(hence u r drawing on some additional amount from the grid)..if it's during peak hours...u will pay for a higher cost per unit of electricity used...as opposed to non peak hours. Hope it made sense.

Also...when u get a chance...could u open that thread about that thing u mentioned...something about vision...or pictures?

Absolutely... @waz -- thoughts where to put thread on vision issues? It will be helpful for all? Members Club?

TheSnakeEatingMarkhur · Apr 6, 2021

_NOBODY_ said:
The world is quickly moving towards renewable energy sources. In Pakistan, less than 5 percent of the country's energy comes from renewable energy (excluding hydro power). To talk about how the country can promote renewable energy and whether ending the grid as we know it is feasible, Uzair Younus spoke to Shazia Khan.

Shazia Khan is the CEO of EcoEnergy, an environmental lawyer, and off-grid energy expert. She began her career as a consultant with the World Bank, working with the Global Environment Facility and Africa Energy. Prior to that, Shazia worked at Pakistan’s National Development Finance Corporation, facilitating long term financing for energy projects.

@ghazi52 @araz @The Eagle @The Accountant @That Guy @Irfan Baloch @PanzerKiel @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Imran Khan @PAKISTANFOREVER @waz @Windjammer @WinterFangs @KaiserX @niaz @farok84 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @MastanKhan @krash @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Cookie Monster @Bratva @VCheng @Foxtrot Alpha @Rafael @Rafi @Trango Towers @TNT @Indus Pakistan @Falcon26 @Norwegian @LeGenD @Iltutmish

We need smart grids

_NOBODY_ · Apr 6, 2021

Cookie Monster said:
There is a third option sir..which is what my question was about.
1) Completely off grid(solar, wind, etc.)...any excess is lost
2) Off the grid(solar, wind, etc.)...excess gets stored in battery(or batteries) for later use like when the sun isn't shining(cloudy or night time) or when the wind isn't blowing or simply when the power consumption is much higher than what is being generated...and hence the batteries kick in.
3) Solar(and/or others) + batteries while on the grid. With this...the excess energy generated is stored in the batteries first...once batteries top out...the rest of excess energy generated is fed into the grid for which u r credited per unit.

The advantage of the third option is..that not only is there no waste of excess energy that's generated. U can also save even more money. I'm not sure about other places but where I live...any excess energy that's fed into the grid...the amount credited per unit is a flat rate. So it doesn't matter if the energy being sold by ur solar capacity back into the grid...is being done during peak hours or during some other time...it's a flat rate. While on the flip side...if u didn't have a battery...and the amount u r consuming is more than what's being generated(hence u r drawing on some additional amount from the grid)..if it's during peak hours...u will pay for a higher cost per unit of electricity used...as opposed to non peak hours. Hope it made sense.

Also...when u get a chance...could u open that thread about that thing u mentioned...something about vision...or pictures?

Hybrid system is way better than off grid system but still one must take into account the cost and life of batteries. A significant chunk of the profit that you will be making from it by selling the excess electricity in a year will be used for replacing batteries. This is why I am attracted towards the on grid system.

_NOBODY_ · Apr 7, 2021

@denel @Cookie Monster @Goenitz
These are some of the best solar panels available in Pakistan right now and they are relatively affordable, at least for me. What do you gentlemen think about it?
Jinko Solar-tiger Pro
Canadian Solar Pakistan | Canadian Solar Price in Pakistan (premierenergy.com.pk)
Longi Solar Pakistan | Longi Solar Panel Price in Pakistan (premierenergy.com.pk)

Cookie Monster · Apr 7, 2021

_NOBODY_ said:
@denel @Cookie Monster @Goenitz
These are some of the best solar panels available in Pakistan right now and they are relatively affordable, at least for me. What do you gentlemen think about it?
Jinko Solar-tiger Pro
Canadian Solar Pakistan | Canadian Solar Price in Pakistan (premierenergy.com.pk)
Longi Solar Pakistan | Longi Solar Panel Price in Pakistan (premierenergy.com.pk)

As per their websites...the efficiency is about 20-21%...
...which is roughly the efficiency of most modern day mass produced solar cells(by various companies) on average.

I have two questions...
1) Are any of these produced in Pakistan? Or are they imported?
2) How many solar panels are u planning on using? There is a tool that some google employee made where using the satellite picture of ur house...and based on how much area of ur roof gets the sun for how much of the day...
...it can give u a rough estimate on how much area of ur roof to cover with solar cells. Of course u can also talk to the company u r getting the solar panels from...and they can send over some expert to figure all that out for u.

_NOBODY_ · Apr 7, 2021

Cookie Monster said:
As per their websites...the efficiency is about 20-21%...
...which is roughly the efficiency of most modern day mass produced solar cells(by various companies) on average.

I have two questions...
1) Are any of these produced in Pakistan? Or are they imported?
2) How many solar panels are u planning on using? There is a tool that some google employee made where using the satellite picture of ur house...and based on how much area of ur roof gets the sun for how much of the day...
...it can give u a rough estimate on how much area of ur roof to cover with solar cells. Of course u can also talk to the company u r getting the solar panels from...and they can send over some expert to figure all that out for u.

I will be using solar panels on my new house which is yet to be constructed. I believe the ones listed here are imported, these are tier 1 solar panels. These solar panels have good reputation.

Chhatrapati · Apr 7, 2021

_NOBODY_ said:
I am considering a hybrid system as well with one battery since you never know there maybe a blackout once in a while.

5KW on grid is going to be expensive, probably costs around 5Lakhs in PKR. If it's hybrid including battery it'll add another 1-2Lakhs in batteries. Solar systems for home is good if you have a daily consumption of 10KWh.
I have an off grid system it charges from a 750W panel and gives me 2 KWh a day, we don't have any power cuts so I use it mostly to reduce my electricity bill, and it'd take at least 10 years to break even.

Always do a cost-benefit analysis if you pick a hybrid system. The costs I mentioned earlier may be lower-higher depending on the costs of materials in Pakistan.

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