Possible Russian S-400 sale to India and Pakistan's Response.

[GumNaam]

Ya! **** logic. It is wasted on Pakistanis anyway.




Another display of logic fail. S-400 could intercept missiles having a range upto 3500 Kms. It does not mean that S-400 could shoot down a missile 3500 Km away.

hey genius, here's your s400's bottom line. each s400 system can engage upto 36 targets within its 400km range. All we have to do is launch 37 armed missiles or drones at it. Even in the best case scenario, the 37th missile spells the end for that battery.

Try that for logic!

 

[Immortan.Joe]

Damn you retarded..

View attachment 343858

Another fine example of failure of Pakistani education system.

Pick up a dictionary and search for meaning of work "components". This pictograph depicts components of a S-400 battalion, not their numbers. A S-400 battalion is made up of 9 such components each.

hey genius, here's your s400's bottom line. each s400 system can engage upto 36 targets within its 400km range. All we have to do is launch 37 armed missiles or drones at it. Even in the best case scenario, the 37th missile spells the end for that battery.

Try that for logic!

That is for a single radar.

 

[GumNaam]

Another fine example of failure of Pakistani education system.

Pick up a dictionary and search for meaning of work "components". This pictograph depicts components of a S-400 battalion, not their numbers. A S-400 battalion is made up of 9 such components each.




That is for a single radar.

and that is all that we need to take out, the radars. Your only gonna have 8 radar stations in a batallion and overwhelming them is not gonna be an issue. Just try us.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

and that is all that we need to take out, the radars. Your only gonna have 8 radar stations in a batallion and overwhelming them is not gonna be an issue. Just try us.

8 radars mean 36X8 = engaging 288 targets simultaneously. That number may be more than your total number of assets in air.

Also S-400 is always deployed along with Pantsir. S-400 may not even need to engage your missiles by itself. Pantsir is better than S-400 for taking out Cruise missiles, smart weapons, and Anti-Radar weapons.

It is a system designed for long range sniping of support aircrafts: AWACS, Tankers, and EW planes; so that your airforce could them slaughter blinded airforce of your enemy.

 

[GumNaam]

8 radars mean 36X8 = engaging 288 targets simultaneously. That number may be more than your total number of assets in air.

Also S-400 is always deployed along with Pantsir. S-400 may not even need to engage your missiles by itself. Pantsir is better than S-400 for taking out Cruise missiles, smart weapons, and Anti-Radar weapons.

It is a system designed for long range sniping of support aircrafts: AWACS, Tankers, and EW planes; so that your airforce could them slaughter blinded airforce of your enemy.

negative. each radar can track at most 36 targets, regardless of the number of missiles it has. one radar does NOT track 288 targets simultaneusly. It is 36 max per radar. So that means 296 missiles/drones/whatever you wanna call it can be launched against each of these 8 radars. Sure, throw 50 more on top to keep the pantsirs busy as well. Nothing that we can't easily attain.

 

[CriticalThought]

Our ability to saturate it will depend on where they place it. They could use it to defend their eastern most territories, thus making eastern India immune to missile attacks. They can then start offensive maneuvers from there with impunity.

It would also impede any SSBNs that we deploy. If the defense is strong enough, and its a BIG IF, we would need something like an Aircraft carrier group to take it out. NOTE: I am NOT proposing that Pakistan should invest in an Aircraft carrier group, just suggesting that it would take that level of power to clean up the mess.

Then again, all these capabilities of S-400 are as claimed. There are always huge differences between claims and real world. Shooting down anything in a 'simulation' doesn't mean it is able to tackle any and all scenarios. We need to learn more about the real world capabilities and design a response accordingly.

Finally, subterfuge can get us what tanks and planes can't.

 

[GumNaam]

Our ability to saturate it will depend on where they place it. They could use it to defend their eastern most territories, thus making eastern India immune to missile attacks. They can then start offensive maneuvers from there with impunity.

It would also impede any SSBNs that we deploy. If the defense is strong enough, and its a BIG IF, we would need something like an Aircraft carrier group to take it out. NOTE: I am NOT proposing that Pakistan should invest in an Aircraft carrier group, just suggesting that it would take that level of power to clean up the mess.

Then again, all these capabilities of S-400 are as claimed. There are always huge differences between claims and real world. Shooting down anything in a 'simulation' doesn't mean it is able to tackle any and all scenarios. We need to learn more about the real world capabilities and design a response accordingly.

Finally, subterfuge can get us what tanks and planes can't.

well what I proposed is just one solution. There are plenty of other solutions on the table as well.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

negative. each radar can track at most 36 targets, regardless of the number of missiles it has. one radar does NOT track 288 targets simultaneusly. It is 36 max per radar. So that means 296 missiles/drones/whatever you wanna call it can be launched against each of these 8 radars. Sure, throw 50 more on top to keep the pantsirs busy as well. Nothing that we can't easily attain.

I was talking about a battalion, not a single radar.

 

[GumNaam]

I was talking about a battalion, not a single radar.

doesn't matter. each battalion would have say N number of radars and each radar is limited to 36 maximum targets. All we have to do is launch 37xN number of missiles/drones/whatever.

 

[CriticalThought]

LOLs, just read this on CNN. Sorry I can't paste links, but this shows the performance of radars in real world scenarios:

The Navy destroyer USS Mason fired countermeasures in the Red Sea on Saturday after it detected what it believed were incoming missiles.

Officials Saturday night were uncertain about what exactly happened, if there were multiple incoming missiles or if there was a malfunction with the radar detection system on the destroyer.

"We are aware of the reports and we are assessing the situation. All of our ships and crews are safe and unharmed," one US defense official told CNN.

The USS Nitze and the USS Ponce were sailing nearby.

There are initial unconfirmed reports of missiles possibly being fired from positions both ashore on Yemen and by small spotter boats operated by Houthi rebels.

The incident was revealed Saturday by Chief of Naval Operations John Richardson during a ship christening in Baltimore.

Earlier Saturday night, a second US defense official said there were multiple incoming surface-to-surface missiles detected by the Mason.

In reaction, the Mason fired multiple missiles using onboard countermeasures, the two officials said.
NBC News first reported the incident.

Early Thursday, the US launched tomahawk cruise missiles into Yemen targeting radar sites in Houthi-held territory, sites the US claims were used to launch missiles in two previous incidents this week.

UPDATED: This story has been updated to reflect the most recent information from defense officials.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

negative. each radar can track at most 36 targets, regardless of the number of missiles it has. one radar does NOT track 288 targets simultaneusly. It is 36 max per radar. So that means 296 missiles/drones/whatever you wanna call it can be launched against each of these 8 radars. Sure, throw 50 more on top to keep the pantsirs busy as well. Nothing that we can't easily attain.

You talked about a battalion, I gave you a drawdown on requirement of saturating 8 radars.

Also remember that attack of all those 296 missile need to be "simultaneous", and you would need much more than 50 to keep Pantsirs busy. If the attack come in waves, it would be easily dealt with by Pantsir and S-400s combo.

Also remeber that 40N6 is active radar homing (thus not needed target to be engaged by Radar) and rest of missiles are SARH which need Radar to paint their target when the reach close to their target. Unless all of your 500 or so missiles are closing in on S-400 simultaneously, it could take turns to take out those in lead.


There is no outsaturating a system like S-400. Only way to take it down is the one stated in that Raython's video that you have posted.

Our ability to saturate it will depend on where they place it. They could use it to defend their eastern most territories, thus making eastern India immune to missile attacks. They can then start offensive maneuvers from there with impunity.

It would also impede any SSBNs that we deploy. If the defense is strong enough, and its a BIG IF, we would need something like an Aircraft carrier group to take it out. NOTE: I am NOT proposing that Pakistan should invest in an Aircraft carrier group, just suggesting that it would take that level of power to clean up the mess.

Then again, all these capabilities of S-400 are as claimed. There are always huge differences between claims and real world. Shooting down anything in a 'simulation' doesn't mean it is able to tackle any and all scenarios. We need to learn more about the real world capabilities and design a response accordingly.

Finally, subterfuge can get us what tanks and planes can't.

India is buying 6000 missiles which could arm upto 125 battalions (going by Russian classification). At least some of these would be deployed close to Pakistan's border.


S-400's longest range missile (400Km range:40N6) could not target fighter jets. It was designed to take out AWACS, Bombers, Tankers, and EW planes. Some batteries of S-40 would be stationed for purpose of sniping out your AWACS so that IAF could have free run after PAF is blinded.

 

[CriticalThought]

You talked about a battalion, I gave you a drawdown on requirement of saturating 8 radars.

Also remember that attack of all those 296 missile need to be "simultaneous", and you would need much more than 50 to keep Pantsirs busy. If the attack come in waves, it would be easily dealt with by Pantsir and S-400s combo.

Also remeber that 40N6 is active radar homing (thus not needed target to be engaged by Radar) and rest of missiles are SARH which need Radar to paint their target when the reach close to their target. Unless all of your 500 or so missiles are closing in on S-400 simultaneously, it could take turns to take out those in lead.


There is no outsaturating a system like S-400. Only way to take it down is the one stated in that Raython's video that you have posted.





India is buying 6000 missiles which could arm upto 16 regiments (going by Russian classification). At least some of these would be deployed close to Pakistan's border.


S-400's longest range missile (400Km range:40N6) could not target fighter jets. It was designed to take out AWACS, Bombers, Tankers, and EW planes. Some batteries of S-40 would be stationed for purpose of sniping out your AWACS so that IAF could have free run after PAF is blinded.

S-400s near the border, although of concern, don't bother me as much. We have multiple options to deal with them. Now if they are operating deep inside enemy territory and there are targets of value for us to destroy, it suddenly becomes a whole different ball game.

 

[GumNaam]

You talked about a battalion, I gave you a drawdown on requirement of saturating 8 radars.

Also remember that attack of all those 296 missile need to be "simultaneous", and you would need much more than 50 to keep Pantsirs busy. If the attack come in waves, it would be easily dealt with by Pantsir and S-400s combo.

Also remeber that 40N6 is active radar homing (thus not needed target to be engaged by Radar) and rest of missiles are SARH which need Radar to paint their target when the reach close to their target. Unless all of your 500 or so missiles are closing in on S-400 simultaneously, it could take turns to take out those in lead.


There is no outsaturating a system like S-400. Only way to take it down is the one stated in that Raython's video that you have posted.





India is buying 6000 missiles which could arm upto 16 regiments (going by Russian classification). At least some of these would be deployed close to Pakistan's border.


S-400's longest range missile (400Km range:40N6) could not target fighter jets. It was designed to take out AWACS, Bombers, Tankers, and EW planes. Some batteries of S-40 would be stationed for purpose of sniping out your AWACS so that IAF could have free run after PAF is blinded.

it still does not change the fact that each radar is limited to a maximum of 36 targets. You can buy 60,000 missiles instead of 6,000 and this limitation would still be there. The missiles are worthless without the radar and the radar can only handle 36 targets at a given time. Still doesn't change the fact that over whelming each radar station is veyr feasible and achievable.

S-400s near the border, although of concern, don't bother me as much. We have multiple options to deal with them. Now if they are operating deep inside enemy territory and there are targets of value for us to destroy, it suddenly becomes a whole different ball game.

the only proplem if they move the s400s deep inside india is that we won't be able to use drones and regular harm missiles to take them out. Then we'll have to rely on ballestic and cruise missiles to take them out. Babur will be very useful here as it can find gaps between enemy radar coverages and navigate between them giving them a nasty surprise out of no where. But Baburs are far more expensive than cheap, disposable drones that we can build and launch in huge numbers.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

S-400s near the border, although of concern, don't bother me as much. We have multiple options to deal with them. Now if they are operating deep inside enemy territory and there are targets of value for us to destroy, it suddenly becomes a whole different ball game.

Well, 6000 missiles translate into 125 battalions (Russian system in which each battalion is armed with 48 S-400 missiles). There would be some out of these 125 which would be placed close to Pakistani border to take out AWACS.

And close for S-400 could mean 100 Km inside the border.

it still does not change the fact that each radar is limited to a maximum of 36 targets. You can buy 60,000 missiles instead of 6,000 and this limitation would still be there. The missiles are worthless without the radar and the radar can only handle 36 targets at a given time. Still doesn't change the fact that over whelming each radar station is veyr feasible and achievable.


the only proplem if they move the s400s deep inside india is that we won't be able to use drones and regular harm missiles to take them out. Then we'll have to rely on ballestic and cruise missiles to take them out. Babur will be very useful here as it can find gaps between enemy radar coverages and navigate between them giving them a nasty surprise out of no where. But Baburs are far more expensive than cheap, disposable drones that we can build and launch in huge numbers.

India is not buying just one Radar. For controlling 6000 missiles, you would need minimum of 16 radars.

 

[CriticalThought]

But Baburs are far more expensive than cheap, disposable drones that we can build and launch in huge numbers.

Yep, one of the reasons why the scenario is disconcerting. We need to invest in Sri Lanka and let them put missile bases just like America puts bases across europe. We will need an offensive missile layer around India.

Well, 6000 missiles translate into 125 battalions (Russian system in which each battalion is armed with 48 S-400 missiles). There would be some out of these 125 which would be placed close to Pakistani border to take out AWACS.

And close for S-400 could mean 100 Km inside the border.

Understood, but in response we have our options open to us. It's not an occasion for celebration for us, but at least it is manageable.