Possible Future AWACS and MPA planes

[LKJ86]

turbofan-based?

There are almost the ones based on Y-8/Y-9 now.

 

[SQ8]

I think this is at plan stage for P3 replacement in 5-8 years. Also, there is a need for EW aircraft, such as ELINT and SOJ for blinders and force expansion.

It will probably end up being a Saab 2000 based platform or Y-9( if money ran out).

I don’t see anything close on the horizon for the Blinders unless we can procure equipment from Russia and fit it onto a Gulfstream or Phenom variant.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It will probably end up being a Saab 2000 based platform or Y-9( if money ran out).

I don’t see anything close on the horizon for the Blinders unless we can procure equipment from Russia and fit it onto a Gulfstream or Phenom variant.

One solution could be the Bombardier Global 6000-based Swordfish MPA.

Saab designed the Swordfish MPA configuration with COTS hardware, e.g. Seaspray 7300E AESA radar, Star SAFIRE EO/IR, Elettronica ESM, etc. In other words, the PN has already procured these subsystems (for the ATR-72), which just leaves the question of AShW and ASW munitions.

Saab's default options are the RBS-15Mk3 and Tp47, but Leonardo is platform agnostic provided the source codes are available. In other words, I think an alternate MBDA or Turkish Roketsan and Aselsan weapons suite (e.g. the Atmaca AShM and Orka LWT) could be had.

I don't think Canada would be adverse to selling Global 6000s to Pakistan. Ottawa is dealing with less than ideal trade issues (trade war with the US) and the platform, in of itself, isn't restricted. In terms of the integration work, Germany approved Rheinland Air Service's request to convert ATR-72s into MPAs for the PN, incl. ASW capability.

Really, the main issue I see with the Bombardier/Saab Swordfish MPA is that there is no existing prototype, so the PN would be on the hook for integration, testing and certification costs. We might be able to avoid it if the UAE jumps in first and tack-on behind them...

 

[GriffinsRule]

Pakistan's P-3C Orions are not going anywhere in the near term but it would be prudent to start looking at potential replacements starting in 2030 with actual induction somewhere down the line in the 2040 time frame. By then, a lot of new options would be available in the market for a long range MPA.

For the AWACS, there are MLU paths already clear for both the Saab 2000 Erieye as well as the ZDK-3

 

[Tps43]

What we need is an air refueller which can support our F 16's fleet.
May be 2 of them would be enough or at max 3.

 

[syed_yusuf]

Should pakisPak not plan start replacing f-16s by now. Not to say replace tomorrow but in next 5 years. I believe project azam will be focused on replacing f-16 and left over mirage fighters

 

[klimove]

Kawasaki P1.

 

[SipahSalar]

The Chinese have a P-3-like turboprop-based MPA based on the Y-8.

Otherwise, there are no serviceable turbofan-based MPAs other than the P-8 and Kawasaki P-1.

The Saab Swordfish MPA based on the Bombardier Global Express is interesting, but it hasn't been made into an actual product you can test. Same for the Airbus A319 MPA.

That said, I do like the Swordfish MPA configuration because it has many of the same subsystems as the PN's ATR-72 MPAs, such as Leonardo Seaspray 7300E radar, Elettronica ESM, etc.

So Pakistan can get the subsystems, the main issue is integration costs.

If Saab and Bombardier just bite the bullet and make a working prototype of the Swordfish MPA, then I think it could be relatively promising. It still doesn't have the range or payload of the P-8, but it brings AShW, ASW and long-haul endurance.

I'd like your comment on the ATRs PN recently acquired, especially how do they compare to our P-3C Orions?

 

[khansaheeb]

We better come up with a solution quick as the s-400 pose a great threat to PAF:-

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201807161066404482-us-india-s400/

 

[FuturePAF]

Aesa radar are arrays of smaller components (transistors); these components should just be replaced with better GA-N elements when they burn out ideally. adding a smaller GaN radar to our current AEW platforms would add capabilities with minimal cost.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-.../gan-radar-enhance-patriot-air-defense-system

Also, rather than going for big platforms that have to race up and down the country, trying to cover the whole country and coast with 7 aew against more than a 1000 enemy fighter/bombers the PAF should look into the "Chinese Divine Eagle concept"

AEW drones based on a uniquely shaped UAV platform. fielding a few dozen of these through out the country, on continuous patrol will allow us the flexibility to respond to threats more quietly and more robustly. In war time, when you will have to be willing to gamble your assets on a risky mission, you will want to have the option of an unmanned aew uav at 65,000 feet to help guide your fighters in an out.

https://www.popsci.com/sites/popsci..._/public/divine_eagle_radar.jpg?itok=Um-9MUYn
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-uav-ucav-development.t3526/page-270

 

[The Accountant]

F16 will not be replaced ... Infact pakistan might try to get ovrhaul facility so as to adopt mirrage route ...

Should pakisPak not plan start replacing f-16s by now. Not to say replace tomorrow but in next 5 years. I believe project azam will be focused on replacing f-16 and left over mirage fighters

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I'd like your comment on the ATRs PN recently acquired, especially how do they compare to our P-3C Orions?

IMO the ATR-72 MPAs were intended to be a massive improvement to the F-27, not a replacement or competitor to the P-3Cs. The P-3Cs will require a different kind of aircraft to replace them (starting with credible AShW and ASW) along with range/endurance, payload and (if turbofan-based) speed. Not many options today; P-8s probably aren't available, the Saab-Bombardier Swordfish still a mock-up, not a real plane, only Y-8s are analogous.

 

[Karl]

The Chinese have a P-3-like turboprop-based MPA based on the Y-8.

Otherwise, there are no serviceable turbofan-based MPAs other than the P-8 and Kawasaki P-1.

China will undoubtedly field an AWACS on the Y-20 or C919 in the next 1 ~ 2 years (KJ3000 or KJ5000) if they haven't already done so. But it won't be comparable to the Boeing P8 or Airbus A330neo SAAB GLOBALEYE.

Also Swordfish is interesting but you could put the same Leonardo Seaspray 7300E radar, Elettronica ESM, Saab, Thales sensors etc... from the same European manufacturers in the Airbus A319neo MPA, which has an open architecture and would seem like a better option.

Also Kawasaki P1 is out of the question. It's just an indigenised Boeing P8 with most of the components subject to US veto. Same with Soryu class submarines, they're just Type 212's for oceanic patrols.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

China will undoubtedly field an AWACS on the Y-20 or C919 in the next 1 ~ 2 years (KJ3000) if they haven't already done so. But it won't be comparable to the Boeing P8 or Airbus A330neo SAAB GLOBALEYE.

Also Swordfish is interesting but you could put the same Leonardo Seaspray 7300E radar, Elettronica ESM, Saab, Thales sensors etc... from the same European manufacturers in the Airbus A319neo MPA, which has an open architecture and would seem like a better option.

If there are NREs involved, might as well go for the better base platform. In fact, since Airbus has an interest in showing an A319-based MPA to NATO, it might even foot the bill as an investment.

 

[Basel]

IMO ... it'll depend on whether Saab and Airbus will foot the bill for integrating the GlobalEye AEW&C and Swordfish MPA configurations to the Airbus A319 or A320. Basically, Saab and Airbus need to do the integration, testing and certification work first, and then let the PAF and PN evaluate the aircraft as live solutions (not concepts). Keep the final price close to the actual cost of integration work, no non-recurring engineering (NRE) costs or the like.

Will it be on part with P-8 MPA if developed?