Pope's atheism remarks spark row

[Bang Galore]

My bad then i accept, it was not my intention to put it in that way but having reread what i wrote, your statement is valid. My point was that just like Chiniese Dragon said

"The point is that the Pope was wrong to connect Atheism and Nazism.

Why should people attempt to make a connection between mass murderers and a particular belief system? It's just bad logic. ".

Similarly it is wrong to make a connection between mass murders and a religion, and hitler was being portrayed as an ardent catholic who was in some secret league with Pope Pius XII on this thread hence it was my obligation to show the other side as well.

Both of you are correct. Whether a particular religious belief (or lack thereof) should be held responsible for one's action would depend on whether the actions in question were motivated by/or for that particular belief. While it is possible to correctly associate actions of many infamous people with religion, atheism was not the reason for the actions of Stalin or Mussolini nor was Christianity the reason for Hitler's actions. Nazism & communism may bear some responsibility.

This is a very common misconception & one which is repeated by many on this forum. It is often asked why the IRA are not known as christian/catholic terrorists or why the LTTE were not called Hindu terrorists. That simply was not the cause that they were connected to. It is why they are called Irish & Tamil terrorists respectively. While some religious connection existed in the IRA, it was not a primary consideration & the LTTE was essentially a group inclined towards leftist ideology.

Btw, I would have liked the pope to answer as to how many people militant atheists have tortured & killed for their beliefs. People living in glass houses should not be throwing any stones.

 

[CardSharp]

My bad then i accept, it was not my intention to put it in that way but having reread what i wrote, your statement is valid. My point was that just like Chiniese Dragon said

"The point is that the Pope was wrong to connect Atheism and Nazism.

Why should people attempt to make a connection between mass murderers and a particular belief system? It's just bad logic. ".

Similarly it is wrong to make a connection between mass murders and a religion, and hitler was being portrayed as an ardent catholic who was in some secret league with Pope Pius XII on this thread hence it was my obligation to show the other side as well.

No the Pius XII was impotent and indecisive, not complicit. Still it really ticks me off that the Catholic church still believes condoms exacerbate the AIDs crisis in Africa.

 

[siegecrossbow]

No the Pius XII was impotent and indecisive, not complicit. Still it really ticks me off that the Catholic church still believes condoms exacerbate the AIDs crisis in Africa.

The problem with practicing celibacy is that no one ends up following them. "Being fruitful" is written in the Bible and it is human instinct to reproduce (which is why it feels good, I guess). The problem with the morally upright people is that they try to hold every one up to their standards and in the end makes the problem a lot worse than before.

 

[CardSharp]

The problem with practicing celibacy is that no one ends up following them. "Being fruitful" is written in the Bible and it is human instinct to reproduce (which is why it feels good, I guess). The problem with the morally upright people is that they try to hold every one up to their standards and in the end makes the problem a lot worse than before.

I can't be bothered to dig up the chapter but in Republican Gomorrah Max Blumenthal cites a university of Oregon(IIRC) study where they showed evangelical christian men who gave answers as most anti-gay on a questionnaire were most likely to be a closet homosexual. (they made all the participants watch gay **** and those had the most anti-gay and religious views registered the largest increase in their *cough*)


He talks about it in this lecture
FORA.tv - Republican Gomorrah: Max Blumenthal

 

[siegecrossbow]

I can't be bothered to dig up the chapter but in Republican Gomorrah Max Blumenthal cites a university of Oregon(IIRC) study where they showed evangelical christian men who gave answers as most anti-gay on a questionnaire were most likely to be a closet homosexual. (they made all the participants watch gay **** and those had the most anti-gay and religious views registered the largest increase in their *cough*)


He talks about it in this lecture
FORA.tv - Republican Gomorrah: Max Blumenthal

Talk about inferiority complexes lol!

Another thing that I don't think has been brought up is that bad things are, as a matter of fact, committed in the name of religion as well. Just look at the vast blood shed resulting from the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the forced conversion of the Native Americans/Africans, and the brutalities of the 30 years War. It really isn't responsible for the Pope to bash irreligious people as "immoral" when the organized religion has been responsible for so much horrors in the past.

 

[Tractor]

As in my view Hitler was an atheist according to that he had worshiped the German philosopher Nietzsche which's most famous statment is 'God is Dead'.

 

[CardSharp]

As in my view Hitler was an atheist according to that he had worshiped the German philosopher Nietzsche which's most famous statment is 'God is Dead'.

Hitler wasn't religious but this is a stretch.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

 

[hammyy2k]

^^germans are not catholic...................

 

[Awesome]

Hitler wasn't religious but this is a stretch.

Nietzsche had the understanding of many existentialist writers - including Allama Iqbal, when he dedicates a full chapter by his name in the Javed Nama. It doesn't mean Iqbal was an atheist.

I think as has been the case with this Pope, he has been caught yet again mis-speaking. Of course I don't believe it was unintentional, the church has been preaching against being "god-less" for some time now.

 

[hammyy2k]

the communists of soviet and china were/are aithests too

 

[Durran3]

Who takes the Pope seriously? Just for kicks...This video is specifically made for the US but pretty much applies everywhere

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

^^germans are not catholic...................

Maybe not Catholic, but Germany has always been majority Christian. Catholics make up the largest percentage of those Christians.

Same goes for Russia, they are also majority Christian.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

the communists of soviet and china were/are aithests too

Chinese Communists are not atheists, they are non-religious.

They don't actively support or deny the existence of any particular creator.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Pope has proved what kinda mentality he has, HE is himself a former Nazi & was part of Nazi Armed Forces

Hitler greets a Catholic Cardinal

Hitler leaves the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven.

Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right.

The Concordat effectively legitimized Hitler and the Nazi government to the eyes of Catholicism, Christianity, and the world.