What's new

Pope's atheism remarks spark row

s90

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1
<unnecessary>

Pope's atheism remarks spark row​

A speech in which the Pope appeared to associate atheism with the Nazis has prompted criticism from humanist organisations.

However, the Catholic Church has moved to play down the controversy, saying the Pope knew "rather well what the Nazi ideology is about".

Humanists have said the comments were a "terrible libel" against non-believers.

In his address, the Pope spoke of "a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society".

He went on to urge the UK to guard against "aggressive forms of secularism".

The Pope made his remarks in his opening address to the Queen at Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh.

He said: "Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live.

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

'Highly political'

A statement from the British Humanist Association said the Pope's remarks were "surreal".

It said: "The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that it somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in God.

"The notion that it is non-religious people in the UK today who want to force their views on others, coming from a man whose organisation exerts itself internationally to impose its narrow and exclusive form of morality and undermine the human rights of women, children, gay people and many others, is surreal."

The German-born Pope has previously spoken of his time growing up under the "monster" of Nazism.

He joined the Hitler Youth at 14, as was required of young Germans at the time.

Late on in WWII he was drafted into an anti-aircraft unit in Munich.

He deserted the German army towards the end of the war and was briefly held as a prisoner-of-war by the Allies in 1945.

The Pope's conservative, traditionalist views were intensified when teaching at the University of Bonn in the 1960s he was said to be appalled at the prevalence of Marxism among his students.

In his view, religion was being subordinated to a political ideology that he considered "tyrannical, brutal and cruel".

He would later be a leading campaigner against liberation theology, the movement to involve the Church in social activism, which for him was too close to Marxism.

BBC News - Row after Pope's remarks on atheism and Nazis
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
^^^Please remove your comment at the top of the article. You dont need to attack the head of a religious community and we have many Christian members on the forum.
 
. . . .
I wrote the way i see facts, no one should be offended without a valid reason.

Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' | News

Anybody can quote a Western source (much disliked by Pakistanis incidentally for being biased) about an 'alleged' incident and bad-mouth a religion. But we as individuals should avoid that. Just put your own religion into the same place and think.
 
. .
I wouldn't go as far as saying that the pope is a historical revisionist but how the heck were the Nazis atheists? Fascist regimes in Italy and Spain enjoyed the backing of the Roman Catholic Church during WWII and the Church didn't even help out when Catholics were persecuted in Nazi Germany.
 
.
I wouldn't go as far as saying that the pope is a historical revisionist but how the heck were the Nazis atheists? Fascist regimes in Italy and Spain enjoyed the backing of the Roman Catholic Church during WWII and the Church didn't even help out when Catholics were persecuted in Nazi Germany.

Exactly, Hitler was raised a Roman Catholic. So why bash us atheists??

Here is a quote from Hitler at the B&#252;rgerbr&#228;ukeller, on April 12, 1922.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison."

- Adolf Hitler, Source: Baynes, Norman (1942), The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939
 
.
Pope might have just twitted from Vatican city saying, "Atheists suck. Please RT". :s
 
.
Lets not be unfair here guys. The Catholic Church did save alot of Jewish lives. Some person mentioned that Hitler was a Catholic and that the Nazis had a Catholic Agenda. BS. Hitler used religion for his own purposes but in no way did he propogate religion (Germany as you know was a country diveded between Protestants and Catholics). His sole goal was extreme nationalism. People who have read about Nazi Germany will know the efforts of men like Von Galen and Kolbe.

Clemens August Graf von Galen (March 16, 1878 &#8211; March 22, 1946) was a German count, Bishop of M&#252;nster, and Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He received his education in Austria at the Stella Matutina (Jesuit School). An outspoken critic of the Nazi regime, he issued forceful, public denunciations of the Third Reich's euthanasia programs and persecution of the Catholic Church, making him one of the most visible and unrelenting internal voices of dissent against the Nazis".

Clemens August Graf von Galen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Saint Maximilian Kolbe (8 January 1894 &#8211; 14 August 1941), was a Polish Conventual Franciscan friar who volunteered to die in place of a stranger in the Nazi concentration camp of Auschwitz in Poland."

Maximilian Kolbe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Pinchas Lapide, a Jewish theologian and Israeli diplomat to Milan in the 1960s, claimed in Three Popes and the Jews that Catholics were "instrumental in saving at least 700,000 but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands."

Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mussolini was a stanch secularist. Remember he had been a communist before starting the facist party.

"Mussolini would become anti-clerical like his father. As a young man, he "proclaimed himself to be an atheist and several times tried to shock an audience by calling on God to strike him dead".[100] He denounced socialists who were tolerant of religion, or who had their children baptized. He believed that science had proven there was no God, and that the historical Jesus was ignorant and mad. He considered religion a disease of the psyche, and accused Christianity of promoting resignation and cowardice.[100]" D.M. Smith 1982, p. 8

Lets not turn this into a religion vs atheist debate but the fact is that the great dictators of the time i.e Stalin, Mussolini were athiests. Hitler also was just Christian by name but mostly he just used Christianity when it suited him and his Nazi agenda.
 
.
Lets not turn this into a religion vs atheist debate but the fact is that the great dictators of the time i.e Stalin, Mussolini were athiests. Hitler also was just Christian by name but mostly he just used Christianity when it suited him and his Nazi agenda.

Fair enough.

The point is that the Pope was wrong to connect Atheism and Nazism.

Why should people attempt to make a connection between mass murderers and a particular belief system? It's just bad logic.
 
.
Look what the Pedophile pimp has to say.

Pope's atheism remarks spark row​

A speech in which the Pope appeared to associate atheism with the Nazis has prompted criticism from humanist organisations.


This is coming from a man who says condoms causes AIDs... What a joke. How is it that he associates Atheists with Hitler and conveniently forgets about his membership with the Hitler Youth.

Don't mention the Pope's Hitler Youth past, says the Vatican - Telegraph



Lets not turn this into a religion vs atheist debate but the fact is that the great dictators of the time i.e Stalin, Mussolini were athiests.

You say "let's not turn this into a religion vs atheism" debate then immediately associate mass murder with Atheism. Bravo.
 
Last edited:
.
"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

Clearly the church had a clear vision of person and destiny when it was busy burning hundreds of thousands of people in the past for being witches, heretic, gay, athiest, non-christian, human, alien, etc.

There is no denying the fact that religion had lead to a lot of persecutions, wars and problems, more so I would say than Athiests themselves.
 
.
This is coming from a man who says condoms causes AIDs... What a joke. How is it that he associates Atheists with Hitler and conveniently forgets about his membership with the Hitler Youth.

Don't mention the Pope's Hitler Youth past, says the Vatican - Telegraph

You say "let's not turn this into a religion vs atheism" debate then immediately associate mass murder with Atheism. Bravo.


My bad then i accept, it was not my intention to put it in that way but having reread what i wrote, your statement is valid. My point was that just like Chiniese Dragon said

"The point is that the Pope was wrong to connect Atheism and Nazism.

Why should people attempt to make a connection between mass murderers and a particular belief system? It's just bad logic. ".

Similarly it is wrong to make a connection between mass murders and a religion, and hitler was being portrayed as an ardent catholic who was in some secret league with Pope Pius XII on this thread hence it was my obligation to show the other side as well. :coffee:
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom