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Police kept army in the dark on DI Khan jailbreak: Initial report

Do you know what consists of a QRF?

Aur sara mamla adhay ghantay main khatam ho gaya tha...no more, no less.

No, I don't really know what consists of a QR team, just heard on TV that it consists of 25 Jawans, would you like to shed some light?

Aur agar sara maamla adhay ghantay main khatam ho bi gya tha, phir bi reinforcement aai to hoti, aadhay ghantay baad hi aai hoti.. Magar zaalim mehboob ki terha reinforcement to 4 ghantay tak nai aai thi sir gee.. :hitwall:

Looks like intercepting attackers was way down in the priority list of Army. Even if they were not successful in intercepting attackers, at least they should have showed some intent, no?
 
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No, I don't really know what consists of a QR team, just heard on TV that it consists of 25 Jawans, would you like to shed some light?

:omghaha:

Again, our media up to it's shenanigans.

A QRF consists of only one Toyota double cabin or Land Rover, with about 10 people including the driver...and all are equipped with SMG's, one MG-3 might be present.

Secondly, as @Xeric detailed yesterday, there is a specific AOR of every QRF or unit or DSG. They don't just go wherever they please. Unless they didn't get the orders, they ddin't go, simple. Remember Abbottabad report?

BTW, At around 12:30 that night, I did see a QRF Land Rover with a LMG racing over, and that according to the reporter was the first Army vehicle that passed through. When did the attack start? 11 PM?

We are just supposing, that the Army is on alert 24/7 and it will go wherever required like a superman within moments.
 
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It is quite clear from the childish response of a few posters that 'monkeys are trying to act funny when they were caught with their hand inside the cookie jar'.

On a serious note, just till yesterday they asked that why didnt the Army respond? Now that the answer is known to them, they in a classic example of begairiti are trying to jump around the facts.

The initial report is not prepared by the Army but the inquiry board, which till yesterday was also pointing fingers towards the Army (as they were not clear on facts and based their statements on the 'visible' indicators alone). Now that they have probed into the matter, things are more clear.

Now, i ask these begairats that why should the Army be the one to respond to every facking crisis?

DPO/Commissioner DI Khan gets his pay from interior ministry, not from the defence budget. They are running the District affairs, not the Army. A civilian govt is functional, i guess. It's not martial law!

How come an Army setup is being made responsible for the protection of a JAIL, is beyond my comprehension?

In this way, if a poster's gf gets fingered, i think he should go run to an Army garrison for justice, right?

The begairats ask, that how could they terrorist enter DI Khan, or bhai, DI Khan is not a cantt, it's a city, protection of which is the responsibility of Police. Established of check posts, road blocks etc is Police's responsibility, The SHO/thana of respective towns is responsible for maintain law and order in their respective areas.

Just because and Army setup is present at DI Khan (which even is not its permanent location), doesnt automatically means that those ace PSP officers should go take a nap.

As far as the matter of getting assistance from Army is concerned, the things are quite clear:

- The int agencies did their job by providing accurate info well before time.

- Assistance was sought from the Army and they did visit the jail, attached/detached a few weapons, advised their counterparts in Police and agreed to respond in case of a problem by having QRFs.

- Now this arrangement doesnt mean that the CO of a unit of the GOC should leave his primary task of fighting the militants in Jandola and start loosing his sleep over DI Khan jail. After all there is a full facking Prison Department to look after the Jail.

What surprised me is the fact that the begairats have gone so begairat that instead of questioning those who are paid to protect and run the Jail, they question a third setup which is in no way connected to DI Khan Jail, and just happens to be in the area not because it is to stay there permanently, but because it has to supports its operations well ahead of DI Khan.

Central Jail DI Khan was not GHQ, Mehran or Kamra Base where the responsibility of their protection rested primarily on the military.

The jail is a civilian setup with a dedicated budget, force and administrative system and a huge department running on govt expenses is there to look after its affairs. It asked assistance, it was provided. Now when the time came to call in the Army, the Police system collapsed and they didnt even inform the Army.

Some smart@ss said that when the transformers were blown so the Army should have just reacted and went to the jail straight away.

i ask that idiot that what should i do, the next time a transformer blows itself because of load in my neighborhood? Should i just pickup my weapon and rush to the nearest jail in my city, or perhaps even the neighboring city if my place is not having the luxury of a central jail?

Sure, the blasts did raise concerns and hence the Army responded even when it was not called in.

You got to remember that it was the Police which was guarding the jail, not the Army and hence the Army was not supposed to be on the look out for an attack.

It was there as a second tier response. But when the first tier response just dissipated without a fight, thanks to our 'leaders' and Police, the Army, even a complete corps couldnt have done anything!

It;s just like a Battalion which is defending a portion of border is tasked to hold the enemy for lets say 15 hours, but if the battalion give way to the enemy in just under and hour, the reserves, may they be comprising of a complete corps cant restore the position, whatsoever. In military terms, it is known as BREAKAGE OF TIME AND SPACE BONDAGE. But you thickheads will not understand this!

For you thickheads, here's another (layman) example;

If your car's TUBELESS tyre gets punctured, you still can travel another 100 kms before you require a repair, but if the tyre just gets torn up, you cant drive it, even if the puncture shop is just a few meters away.

Blaming the Army in this case, is just like allowing an intruder inside your home willingly and when its ties to up guud, you expect a friend of yours whom you were supposed to call and info about the intrusion to come rescue you, even though you didnt info him.

What a facking retarded logic!

Forces dont communicate via telepathy, they do it through a thing known as communications, which if not used because your @rse have been bled thoroughly, doesnt qualifies the responded to be guilty of negligence, even though the Army's QRFs did respond and contested the militants. But as it was already too late, even a cordon couldnt stop militants from escaping.

You can wake up someone who is asleep.

You cannot wake up someone who pretends to be asleep.

Exactly!

Someone needed to wake these Prison guards up!
 
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BTW, just had a look at Google Earth.

1- The Police lines is across the road from the prison...D

2- The prison is right in the middle of the city. Now don't tell me that intracity security is also the job of the Army? The city extends for about 2 kilometers in all direction from the jail. Now how can you blame the Army?
 
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BTW, just had a look at Google Earth.

1- The Police lines is across the road from the prison...D

2- The prison is right in the middle of the city. Now don't tell me that intracity security is also the job of the Army? The city extends for about 2 kilometers in all direction from the jail. Now how can you blame the Army?

have to blame someone!
 
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have to blame someone!

That is what's wrong in Pakistan.

Whenever something happens, let's start the blame game.

I don't know if you know Punjabi or not, but the saying goes as 'Mathay paa do'.

People just blame on in a knee jerk fashion and see red in their eyes. Media included.

Instead of blaming some organization, you should assign responsibility. Blaming and shaming someone and assigning responsibility are 2 different things. By assigning responsibility, you identify the weaknesses, look at the deficits, then try to overcome them and do some self introspection.

By blaming someone, you shame them and then the other guy says the next time, 'mujhay kia, baisti to waisay hi honi hai, fck it'.

Provide alternatives or constructive arguments rather than just harping about, 'lalalala, Army ki ghalti, lalala, Army ki ghalti'.
 
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Your questions, though pertinent are a bit childish. Not that you are to belamed, but i cant expect you to understand the working of a military system. Still, i will try to answer your queries:

- Why Army tried to send QRT's to protect residential areas instead of sending them to Jail which was under attack?

- Another important thing to notice is, after jail attack, we all know that first response team arrived late. And they weren't even few minutes late, they were fcking 4 hours late.. :blink:

- Army sent QRTs to protect residential areas, but why QRT's weren't sent to exit routes to block attackers or intercept.

- Lastly, no attempt of hot pursuit was done..

Looks like they were not interested to intercept attackers at all, or even army was trying to avoid getting in contact with attackers.. :undecided:
First, i dont know that the QRTs were sent to residential areas, even if they were, there's a guud reason behind it. i try explaining that:

As a function on common sense, you always try to do something which is within your powers and resources available to you.

There is a difference between a video game and real battle.

Theoretically or in your dreams or movies Bourne alone brought CIA down on its knees. Sultan Rahis and Chuck Norris' are guud, but not so guud in real life.

In real situations, a commander has to weight its options before he commits his forces somewhere. When we say a brigade alone cannot attack and capture an enemy battalion in defence without armour support, so dude it means that it just cannot do it.

How much do i want that brigade to capture that battalion, it just wont happen. That;s a reality. i can harp over its inefficiency all day long, but it wont change the fact.

1971 is a classical example, we were asking battalions to contest corps. We were expecting brigades to contest corps, their heliborne forces and beat the local insurgency all at the same time. It just didnt happen!

Similar, it is said that a counter attack should go in a specific time frame, after which they counter attack becomes suicidal. Why?

Let;s say a battalion commander should launch his counter attack within 10 hours, now that means that keeping the speed of enemy operations in view, we assume (basing on historical examples) that if a counter attack goes before 10 hours, the enemy who have captures the area would not have consolidated it by then i.e. it would not have dug up positions, it would be short on ammo as the reserve ammo would not have been brought ahead by then, their casualties would not have been replaced etc. Also, as the strength of the attacking enemy has suffered casualties, so his strength doesnot significantly exceed yours. Also, though a 3:1 ratio is ideal for executing and attack, but as the enemy is already exhausted, deprived and have suffered casualties, even a 1:1 counter attack can be successful. So, if a counter attacks goes in now, there is a fair chance of defeating the enemy and re-gaining the ground lost.

However, if there is a delay, that means, that the enemy has dug itself in, their ammo has been replenished, and causalities replaced. Now, if you are going to go in with a ratio of 1:1, the dug in enemy who has been replenished will screw you!

So what to do?

You occupy counter penetration position i.e. dug in just ahead of the enemy so that the enemy advance is stopped, even though you still have lost the initial ground.

This is known as common sense, and books have been written on the same.

Now, let's related this the jail break:

- As i said, the Army was not in full strength in DI Khan, only the div HQ is there with al of its combat elements deployed far away.

- The strength available at DI Khan garrison was not enough to take on the militants ALONE! But they could have been successful if the attack by militants was blunted by the first tier i.e Police guarding the jail.

- Now as we are aware that Police just gave a walk over to the militants and then also screwed up the time-space matrix by not informing the second tier in time, the QRFs alone couldnt possibly have halted the ingress.

- Also, it's not by magic that you just summon the Army and it was just codon off the entire city!

You guys talk as if it;s a video game and you will just copy/paste more soldiers if need be.

Lastly, hot pursuit operation is well beyond your understanding. i could write another page about its mechanics but i wont.


It's easier to say that why didnt you pursuit the guys who snatched your mobile ph, but when it comes to pursuit them in reality, things are different.

The relative strength difference, the delayed response because of Police not informing in time are a few factors that should be considered before going in hot.

As a basic understanding, hot pursuit is only undertaken when the enemy's will to fight has been broken and you have superior mobility then that of the enemy.

Hot pursuit could have been undertaken if sir Police has damaged the militants a bit, but when all of them were hefty and marry and had achieved a break through, you cant go after them, especially when you are not told the facts:
According to the initial report, the police and jail authorities told the army that the militants were inside the jail, whereas the militants had already attacked and left at that point.

And as, contrary to @Mafia's understanding, blowing up of a transformer doesnt necessarily means that a jail break is underway, coupled with the fog of war, when you were kept in dark and are trying to ***** the situation at your own, it is always better to go on a defensive, rather than going on an offensive, and hence the protection of residential areas. And by the time the situation got clear, the marry militants had already long gone, thanks to the excellent response by the first tier!

i hope that clears it up.
 
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Meanwhile in Balochistan:

‏@AsimBajwaISPR: Situation in #Baluchistan warrants better trained/ equipped #police. #Army will train Bln Police and also deliver them 5000 more SMGs.
 
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