PNS Babur confront the indian navy Ship

[Windjammer]

its evident from video PN was always on collision approach like suicide bombers INS did best to avoid the collision like professionally trained sailors, but it will be noted in due course whenever hostilities confront the named ship ex HMS now PNS will be taken out much before they get in range of 200 nautical mile.

Do check post * 77 and remind us what does professional means in India, maybe both the Indian Captains were training to be some Hinduwata Warriors.

 

[karan21]

That is highly unprofessional. I can't believe that pakistan actually lodged a complaint against India on this incident. Clearly they came in to ram the Indian ship.

 

[-1o1-]

This from a national who every time there's a bomb blast in Pakistan, get so exited that some poor lass ends up getting molested. As for the rest, it must make a great movie to pick up the Indians.

Any you guys shamelessly watch it

 

[Green Arrow]

Lol. That was interesting, seems like car racing

 

[shaheenmissile]

Background of this incident :| The Foreign Office lodged a protest with the Indian government through the Indian High Commission in Islamabad on a serious incident on 16 June, 2011 in which Indian Navy Ship Godavari obstructed Pakistan Navy Ship Babur. In a statement, a Foreign Office Spokesperson said the Indian navy ship not only hampered humanitarian operations being carried out by Pakistan Navy Ship Babur for Merchant Vessel Suez but also undertook dangerous maneuvers, which resulted in the brushing of the sides of INS Godavari and PNS Babur. PNS Babur was escorting and assisting MV Suez which had been released after captivity by Somali pirates. This incident constitutes a serious violation of international regulations pertaining to safe conduct at high seas and of the India-Pakistan Agreement of 1991 on Advance Notice of military exercise maneuvers and troops movements.The Indian government has been asked to ensure non-recurrence of such incidents.

 

[Iggy]

only "A helicopter net was damaged when the Pakistan ship moved close to INS Godavari, coming from behind."

INS Godavari damaged in PNS Babur manoeuvres - The Hindu

You and the famous "think tank" should understand the difference between a helicopter net and a helicopter..sheesh..

 

[utraash]

You must be an idiot posting like this.
How many idiotic remarks can you do in one post. Harami kutta. Your hero Indian airforce pilot shot down unarmed naval plane filled with students. Kutta like you should be banned immediately.

Now the wrong way, sir jee... Sir jee... I disagree with your negative remarks about Pakistani planes or naval vessels. Please do google research about international law and use your huge brain to see that our plane was doing nothing dangerous and unarmed. I feel so sorry for that you shot down our young students and stole our plane parts.

Dear not expected from TT ..
@WebMaster

 

[Munir]

Go and read history about Pakistan.... Where your hero airforce shoot down Indian civilian plan.

And plan that you referring is Pakistani naval reconnaissance plane not a civilian one.

Calling people by name you cant change the reality /

Do I care? I think that since Modi came into power your type feel on top of the earth but maybe that earth is mars... Which rule is to shoot down a prop plane from behind with IR missile when it is not even above your land?O I forgot, Brahmans have no brains. When there Makhi starts doing crazy they switch off the whole plane and crash... Not once... Twice. And even though Makhi has quadruple software safety on its fbw it still crashed. No matter dual engines or dual pilots... My God. The israeli can land half F15. You could not even land 100% functioning f15...

 

[Inception-06]

You and the famous "think tank" should understand the difference between a helicopter net and a helicopter..sheesh..

Read my post carefully, I know the difference very well, but where did I claim that a Helicopter was damaged ?




I did post a link which clears that the Helicopter was not damaged but the Helicopter nets ! You and your "think tank"....

 

[Munir]

Dear not expected from TT ..
@WebMaster

Dear, I think you are whining but trashing other peoples everything. I gave you two versions. Just read the one you want to. A newby with arrogance like that should understand that it is degrading our navy. I do not have to accept that with a servant attitude. Why don't you look at the post of your mate?

 

[Inception-06]

You and the famous "think tank" should understand the difference between a helicopter net and a helicopter..sheesh..

You it was your own Media which quoted the indian Naval Chief wrong and did claim that:
"PNS Babur damaged our helicopter net: Naval Chief"

here is the NDTV link where your Naval Chief gives a report about the damaged Helicopter nets, while your Media claims it was the Helicopter.

click here :
PNS Babur damaged our helicopter net: Naval Chief

 

[Iggy]

Read my post carefully, I know the difference very well, but where did I claim that a Helicopter was damaged ?




I did post a link which clears that the Helicopter was not damaged but the Helicopter nets ! You and your "think tank"....
View attachment 136623

Sorry my mistake ..

 

[Munir]

IAF's Atlantique Kill Picture Gallery - Vayu Sena

interesting read..

It was a hot morning in August of 1999, the sun blazing down on the salt marshes of Gujarat in Western India, on the southern edge of the border with Pakistan. This area is a mix of creeks, salt marshes and mud flats, and there had been border clashes in the past, so the armed forces on both sides were in a state of permanent alert.

Besides, there was another reason for tension. Only a month ago, Indian and Pakistani forces had been fighting an undeclared but highly publicised high-altitude “war” in the mountains of Kashmir, with heavy artillery barrages, air strikes and assaults up vertiginous mountain slopes. This so-called “Kargil war” had ended with a Pakistani withdrawal from most of the territory it had seized, and the Indian government and media had promoted it as a “famous victory”. The purpose of this article is not to enter into a detailed discussion of the so-called “victory” – I’ll leave that for another occasion. But the facts are that tensions were still very high and the forces were on a hair-trigger.

It was in this atmosphere, then, that just before 11am Indian time, on the 10th of August 1999, Indian Air Force radar picked up an aircraft approaching the border from the Pakistani side. This was a red flag since an agreement between the nations, signed in 1991, prohibited fixed-wing aircraft from approaching within ten kilometres of the international border. According to the official Indian Air Force account[1] of what happened next,

It first touched the international border (at point 68 degree 48 min E, 24 degrees 18 min North) at 10:54 hrs. For the next 17-18 minutes it carried out a series of manoueveres (sic) over this area.

I don’t necessarily accept the official Indian version of anything, anywhere, or at any time, so for the rest of this article it has to be remembered that when I quote Indian accounts on this incident, Idon’tautomatically believe or endorse them. But, in the brief, this is what took place:

The aircraft the Indian radars had been tracking was a Breguet Atlantique of the Pakistani Navy. The Atlantique is a maritime reconnaissance aircraft which can also be armed with anti-ship missiles[2], and the type had been known to shadow Indian Navy ships in the Arabian Sea and “buzz” them in the tradition of Cold War encounters between NATO and Soviet planes and ships in the Atlantic Ocean.


A Pakistan Navy Atlantique
This particular Atlantique belonged to No 29 Squadron of the Pakistan Navy, according to statements released later from Islamabad[3]. It was flown by Lieutenant Commander Mehboob Alam and had 5 officers and 11 sailors aboard (the others wereLieutenants Farasat Ali Shah, Rizwan Masood, Azhar Hussain, Zarar Ahmad, and sailors Mohammad Tariq, Nawazish, M Hussain, M Sarwar, Aftab Ahmad, M Riaz, Wahid Iqbal, M Hafeez, M Yasin, S Mehmood and Masood). What it was alleged to be doing on the Indian border will be discussed later in this article.

The Atlantique had been noticed, according to the Indian Air Force, at 10.51am Indian time. According to the same IAF official history, the Atlantique “crossed” (as opposed to “touched”, I presume) the Indian border at 10.57am. Two Indian Air Force interceptors from No 45 Squadron had been alerted when the Atlantique had first been noticed, and were ordered to scramble at 10.57 when the aeroplane crossed the border. Two minutes later they were in the air.

These two interceptors were MiG 21bis fighters flown by Squadron Leader (the rank is equivalent to Major) PK Bundela and Flying Officer (Captain) S Narayanan. Their ground controller (the MiG 21 is a short range high-speed interceptor dependent on guidance from ground control) vectored them in on an interception course on the Pakistani aeroplane as it “entered Indian airspace for the third time”.


A MiG 21bis from No 45 Squadron
Again, I quote from the official IAF history:

The fighter controller of the ground radar vectored the fighters in a Northerly direction, to bring them in the general area at approximately 11:10 hrs…(b)y 11:12 hrs, the bogey (unidentified Pakistani track) proceeded initially west, subsequently turning and heading south till the IB (International Border) (at point 68º 32 min East, 23º 58 min North), then turning onto a westerly heading initially. At this time, the IAF interceptors were also directed southwards by the radar controller and generally kept abreast of the bogey, keeping on the Indian side of the IB.

The bogey turned south once again and entered Indian airspace for the third time at approximately 11:14 hrs and penetrated 10 km into Indian territory before turning on an easterly heading. At this stage, the fighter controller maneuvered (sic) the IAF MiG-21s so as to place the lead aircraft flown by Sqn. Ldr. P.K. Bundela between the border and the intruder (to stop the intruder from escaping) and the wingman Fg. Off. S. Narayanan was accelerated and brought behind the unknown intruder from the other side in a pincer movement.

The idea was to box in the Atlantique from both sides so as to prevent it from escaping into Pakistani airspace, and leaving it with only two options – to surrender and land at an Indian airbase, or to be shot down. Both MiG 21s were now in visual as well as radar contact with the quarry and had identified it as an Atlantique of the Pakistani Navy. Bundela, who was on the port side of the Atlantique (which would have, according to the Indian version of events, placed him between the Pakistani plane and the border) apparently closed to 300 metres of the “bogey” in an effort to signal it to surrender. But – again according to the Indian version –

As Sqn. Ldr. Bundela was jockeying into position, the Atlantique turned into him in an aggressive evasive attempt. This was a hostile act. As per international norms he ought to have maintained his course and height and in fact lowered his under-carriage as a sign of submission as per the Rules of Engagement.

Having received clearance from Indian ground control to shoot down the Atlantique, Bundela then fired an R-60 infra-red heat-seeking missile at the Pakistani aeroplane. In the following picture, captured by the MiG 21’s Head Up Display, the missile can be seen on the left streaking towards the Pakistani Navy plane. A moment later, it struck the port engine and set it on fire.



One of the interesting things about this photo is the fact that the MiG 21 is clearly below and behind the Pakistani plane. I’m not a fighter pilot, but surely this seems to indicate that – if the official account is to be credited – the Atlantique had already overflown the Indian fighter and had been going hell-for-leather for Pakistani territory at the time the missile was launched, if that is it had not already crossed the border. If that was so, and the plane was trying to escape, how is it that its actions were deemed “hostile”? Later, the Indian government was to make a lot of noise about the quite undoubted fact that an Atlantique can carry anti-ship missiles. But MiG 21s are not ships, the action occurred over land, and the Atlantique had clearly not made any attempt to launch weapons of any kind.


The IAF’s map of the episode
Then, the two MiG 21s were both of the bis variant, which has an internal GSh-23 cannon[4] (unlike earlier versions which either had no guns or could carry only detachable cannon pods). It seems extremely unlikely that interceptors which were on such a high state of combat readiness (they took off only eight minutes after being first alerted, and two minutes after being ordered to scramble) would have the cannon magazines empty. It is then difficult to understand why Bundela, who closed to within 300 metres of the Pakistani aeroplane, did not fire off a couple of bursts in an effort to warn it or inflict potentially non-lethal damage. Could it be that a policy decision had been made to destroy a Pakistani plane at the first opportunity (during the aforementioned Kargil “war”, the IAF had lost at least three aircraft, including two fighters and a gunship, while the Pakistanis had lost none) in order to take revenge, and there was only a narrow window of opportunity before the “bogey” got away?

(Unfortunately, we can’t ask Bundela these questions – a few years later, he was badly injured while ejecting from a crashing MiG 21 and died in hospital.)

Let’s get back to the official IAF account:

The interceptors were immediately ordered to break away to the right to ensure that they stayed within Indian territory. The Atlantique after being shot (sic – no shots were actually fired) continued to be seen on IAF ground radars. It entered a loose descending spiral turn to the left, burning fiercely with wreckage falling off; in the process, it described an arc 5 km within Pakistani territory before facing an approximately south-easternly (sic) direction again close to the IB before it disappeared from the IAF ground radar screen.

The scene inside the plane must have been horrific in those final moments, with the fuselage disintegrating and flames consuming the interior. The missile’s impacting the engine meant that it’s likely none of the crew met a mercifully quick end from blast or concussion, so they must have known their impending doom long enough to be terrified as well as possibly in agony from the flames and being battered around in the crashing wreck. Even if one imagines the Pakistanis were enemies, it’s impossible to feel any joy in that image, and I find the two Indian pilots’ obvious glee at their later media conference frankly obscene. (They were decorated, as was the ground controller, and lionised in the media, as if it was some kind of Manfred von Richtofen-style feat to shoot down a lumbering turbo-prop aeroplane with a Mach 2 jet firing a heat-seeking missile.)


Bundela (left) with Narayanan
There followed a most curious string of events, so bizarre as to merit possibly more attention than the shooting down itself. Despite the IAF account that the Pakistani Navy plane had crashed within Pakistani territory (see above), the Indian government immediately declared that the plane had been shot down over India and the proof was that the wreckage was within India.

I remember clearly the “evidence” which followed: the TV news channels showed a video released by the IAF depicting the wreckage “being retrieved from Indian territory”. It was evidently taken from inside a landed Indian Mi-8 or Mi-17 and showed Indian Air Force personnel racing frantically about, picking up pieces of metal and scurrying back as quickly as they could to put them into the helicopter. Why all this running was required, if the wreckage had actually fallen inside Indian territory (two kilometres inside was the claim), was never explained. The Pakistanis later accused the Indians of stealing the wreckage from inside their country, and they’re so obviously telling the truth on that point that there seem no reasonable grounds for disbelieving them. The Indian side claimed that the Atlantique’s wreckage had fallen in a scattered zone on both sides of the border, but that still begs the question of the sprinting Air Force men.

Then there’s the question of the Pakistani bodies. The corpses of allthe sixteen occupants of the Atlantique were recovered by the Pakistanis on their side of the border and they were given a state funeral[3] attended by, among others, the Pakistani Prime Minister and Naval chief. Assuming the wreckage was “scattered” across the border, it’s difficult to imagine how all the bodies ended up on the Pakistani side. The Pakistanis claimed that the wreckage was “two miles” (3.2 kilometres) inside their territory, and that the “unarmed” plane was on a training flight[5]. More on that anon.

Meanwhile, in India, the recovered wreckage, from wherever it had come, was then flown to Delhi where the Prime Minister at the time, Atal Behari Vajpayee of the Hindunazi alliance then in power, formally “inspected” it for the cameras.

This wasn’t enough, though, to “convince” everyone that India had been right to have shot the plane down, so the next day Indian helicopters flew journalists to the area of the shooting down to “prove” that it had crashed in Indian territory. How they intended to prove this in a land of salt marshes and mud flats, where there are neither border markers nor obvious landmarks, isn’t clear, but in any case they never got there. By this time, the Pakistani army had reached the crash site and fired on the helicopters with a surface to air missile which, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, missed. And then the Pakistanis took their own contingent of journalists to prove, quite conclusively, that at least the bulk of the wreckage had fallen inside Pakistan. Here’s a Pakistani photo showing the wreckage:

 

[Donatello]

IAF's Atlantique Kill Picture Gallery - Vayu Sena

interesting read..

It was a hot morning in August of 1999, the sun blazing down on the salt marshes of Gujarat in Western India, on the southern edge of the border with Pakistan. This area is a mix of creeks, salt marshes and mud flats, and there had been border clashes in the past, so the armed forces on both sides were in a state of permanent alert.

Besides, there was another reason for tension. Only a month ago, Indian and Pakistani forces had been fighting an undeclared but highly publicised high-altitude “war” in the mountains of Kashmir, with heavy artillery barrages, air strikes and assaults up vertiginous mountain slopes. This so-called “Kargil war” had ended with a Pakistani withdrawal from most of the territory it had seized, and the Indian government and media had promoted it as a “famous victory”. The purpose of this article is not to enter into a detailed discussion of the so-called “victory” – I’ll leave that for another occasion. But the facts are that tensions were still very high and the forces were on a hair-trigger.

It was in this atmosphere, then, that just before 11am Indian time, on the 10th of August 1999, Indian Air Force radar picked up an aircraft approaching the border from the Pakistani side. This was a red flag since an agreement between the nations, signed in 1991, prohibited fixed-wing aircraft from approaching within ten kilometres of the international border. According to the official Indian Air Force account[1] of what happened next,

It first touched the international border (at point 68 degree 48 min E, 24 degrees 18 min North) at 10:54 hrs. For the next 17-18 minutes it carried out a series of manoueveres (sic) over this area.

I don’t necessarily accept the official Indian version of anything, anywhere, or at any time, so for the rest of this article it has to be remembered that when I quote Indian accounts on this incident, Idon’tautomatically believe or endorse them. But, in the brief, this is what took place:

The aircraft the Indian radars had been tracking was a Breguet Atlantique of the Pakistani Navy. The Atlantique is a maritime reconnaissance aircraft which can also be armed with anti-ship missiles[2], and the type had been known to shadow Indian Navy ships in the Arabian Sea and “buzz” them in the tradition of Cold War encounters between NATO and Soviet planes and ships in the Atlantic Ocean.


A Pakistan Navy Atlantique
This particular Atlantique belonged to No 29 Squadron of the Pakistan Navy, according to statements released later from Islamabad[3]. It was flown by Lieutenant Commander Mehboob Alam and had 5 officers and 11 sailors aboard (the others wereLieutenants Farasat Ali Shah, Rizwan Masood, Azhar Hussain, Zarar Ahmad, and sailors Mohammad Tariq, Nawazish, M Hussain, M Sarwar, Aftab Ahmad, M Riaz, Wahid Iqbal, M Hafeez, M Yasin, S Mehmood and Masood). What it was alleged to be doing on the Indian border will be discussed later in this article.

The Atlantique had been noticed, according to the Indian Air Force, at 10.51am Indian time. According to the same IAF official history, the Atlantique “crossed” (as opposed to “touched”, I presume) the Indian border at 10.57am. Two Indian Air Force interceptors from No 45 Squadron had been alerted when the Atlantique had first been noticed, and were ordered to scramble at 10.57 when the aeroplane crossed the border. Two minutes later they were in the air.

These two interceptors were MiG 21bis fighters flown by Squadron Leader (the rank is equivalent to Major) PK Bundela and Flying Officer (Captain) S Narayanan. Their ground controller (the MiG 21 is a short range high-speed interceptor dependent on guidance from ground control) vectored them in on an interception course on the Pakistani aeroplane as it “entered Indian airspace for the third time”.


A MiG 21bis from No 45 Squadron
Again, I quote from the official IAF history:

The fighter controller of the ground radar vectored the fighters in a Northerly direction, to bring them in the general area at approximately 11:10 hrs…(b)y 11:12 hrs, the bogey (unidentified Pakistani track) proceeded initially west, subsequently turning and heading south till the IB (International Border) (at point 68º 32 min East, 23º 58 min North), then turning onto a westerly heading initially. At this time, the IAF interceptors were also directed southwards by the radar controller and generally kept abreast of the bogey, keeping on the Indian side of the IB.

The bogey turned south once again and entered Indian airspace for the third time at approximately 11:14 hrs and penetrated 10 km into Indian territory before turning on an easterly heading. At this stage, the fighter controller maneuvered (sic) the IAF MiG-21s so as to place the lead aircraft flown by Sqn. Ldr. P.K. Bundela between the border and the intruder (to stop the intruder from escaping) and the wingman Fg. Off. S. Narayanan was accelerated and brought behind the unknown intruder from the other side in a pincer movement.

The idea was to box in the Atlantique from both sides so as to prevent it from escaping into Pakistani airspace, and leaving it with only two options – to surrender and land at an Indian airbase, or to be shot down. Both MiG 21s were now in visual as well as radar contact with the quarry and had identified it as an Atlantique of the Pakistani Navy. Bundela, who was on the port side of the Atlantique (which would have, according to the Indian version of events, placed him between the Pakistani plane and the border) apparently closed to 300 metres of the “bogey” in an effort to signal it to surrender. But – again according to the Indian version –

As Sqn. Ldr. Bundela was jockeying into position, the Atlantique turned into him in an aggressive evasive attempt. This was a hostile act. As per international norms he ought to have maintained his course and height and in fact lowered his under-carriage as a sign of submission as per the Rules of Engagement.

Having received clearance from Indian ground control to shoot down the Atlantique, Bundela then fired an R-60 infra-red heat-seeking missile at the Pakistani aeroplane. In the following picture, captured by the MiG 21’s Head Up Display, the missile can be seen on the left streaking towards the Pakistani Navy plane. A moment later, it struck the port engine and set it on fire.



One of the interesting things about this photo is the fact that the MiG 21 is clearly below and behind the Pakistani plane. I’m not a fighter pilot, but surely this seems to indicate that – if the official account is to be credited – the Atlantique had already overflown the Indian fighter and had been going hell-for-leather for Pakistani territory at the time the missile was launched, if that is it had not already crossed the border. If that was so, and the plane was trying to escape, how is it that its actions were deemed “hostile”? Later, the Indian government was to make a lot of noise about the quite undoubted fact that an Atlantique can carry anti-ship missiles. But MiG 21s are not ships, the action occurred over land, and the Atlantique had clearly not made any attempt to launch weapons of any kind.


The IAF’s map of the episode
Then, the two MiG 21s were both of the bis variant, which has an internal GSh-23 cannon[4] (unlike earlier versions which either had no guns or could carry only detachable cannon pods). It seems extremely unlikely that interceptors which were on such a high state of combat readiness (they took off only eight minutes after being first alerted, and two minutes after being ordered to scramble) would have the cannon magazines empty. It is then difficult to understand why Bundela, who closed to within 300 metres of the Pakistani aeroplane, did not fire off a couple of bursts in an effort to warn it or inflict potentially non-lethal damage. Could it be that a policy decision had been made to destroy a Pakistani plane at the first opportunity (during the aforementioned Kargil “war”, the IAF had lost at least three aircraft, including two fighters and a gunship, while the Pakistanis had lost none) in order to take revenge, and there was only a narrow window of opportunity before the “bogey” got away?

(Unfortunately, we can’t ask Bundela these questions – a few years later, he was badly injured while ejecting from a crashing MiG 21 and died in hospital.)

Let’s get back to the official IAF account:

The interceptors were immediately ordered to break away to the right to ensure that they stayed within Indian territory. The Atlantique after being shot (sic – no shots were actually fired) continued to be seen on IAF ground radars. It entered a loose descending spiral turn to the left, burning fiercely with wreckage falling off; in the process, it described an arc 5 km within Pakistani territory before facing an approximately south-easternly (sic) direction again close to the IB before it disappeared from the IAF ground radar screen.

The scene inside the plane must have been horrific in those final moments, with the fuselage disintegrating and flames consuming the interior. The missile’s impacting the engine meant that it’s likely none of the crew met a mercifully quick end from blast or concussion, so they must have known their impending doom long enough to be terrified as well as possibly in agony from the flames and being battered around in the crashing wreck. Even if one imagines the Pakistanis were enemies, it’s impossible to feel any joy in that image, and I find the two Indian pilots’ obvious glee at their later media conference frankly obscene. (They were decorated, as was the ground controller, and lionised in the media, as if it was some kind of Manfred von Richtofen-style feat to shoot down a lumbering turbo-prop aeroplane with a Mach 2 jet firing a heat-seeking missile.)


Bundela (left) with Narayanan
There followed a most curious string of events, so bizarre as to merit possibly more attention than the shooting down itself. Despite the IAF account that the Pakistani Navy plane had crashed within Pakistani territory (see above), the Indian government immediately declared that the plane had been shot down over India and the proof was that the wreckage was within India.

I remember clearly the “evidence” which followed: the TV news channels showed a video released by the IAF depicting the wreckage “being retrieved from Indian territory”. It was evidently taken from inside a landed Indian Mi-8 or Mi-17 and showed Indian Air Force personnel racing frantically about, picking up pieces of metal and scurrying back as quickly as they could to put them into the helicopter. Why all this running was required, if the wreckage had actually fallen inside Indian territory (two kilometres inside was the claim), was never explained. The Pakistanis later accused the Indians of stealing the wreckage from inside their country, and they’re so obviously telling the truth on that point that there seem no reasonable grounds for disbelieving them. The Indian side claimed that the Atlantique’s wreckage had fallen in a scattered zone on both sides of the border, but that still begs the question of the sprinting Air Force men.

Then there’s the question of the Pakistani bodies. The corpses of allthe sixteen occupants of the Atlantique were recovered by the Pakistanis on their side of the border and they were given a state funeral[3] attended by, among others, the Pakistani Prime Minister and Naval chief. Assuming the wreckage was “scattered” across the border, it’s difficult to imagine how all the bodies ended up on the Pakistani side. The Pakistanis claimed that the wreckage was “two miles” (3.2 kilometres) inside their territory, and that the “unarmed” plane was on a training flight[5]. More on that anon.

Meanwhile, in India, the recovered wreckage, from wherever it had come, was then flown to Delhi where the Prime Minister at the time, Atal Behari Vajpayee of the Hindunazi alliance then in power, formally “inspected” it for the cameras.

This wasn’t enough, though, to “convince” everyone that India had been right to have shot the plane down, so the next day Indian helicopters flew journalists to the area of the shooting down to “prove” that it had crashed in Indian territory. How they intended to prove this in a land of salt marshes and mud flats, where there are neither border markers nor obvious landmarks, isn’t clear, but in any case they never got there. By this time, the Pakistani army had reached the crash site and fired on the helicopters with a surface to air missile which, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, missed. And then the Pakistanis took their own contingent of journalists to prove, quite conclusively, that at least the bulk of the wreckage had fallen inside Pakistan. Here’s a Pakistani photo showing the wreckage:

The only thing they are good at is shooting at unarmed planes/people.

Sometimes i really wonder, that chopper that recently got lost and ended up landing in Pakistan, should not have been shown Pakistani restraint and hospitality, but rather than blown out of the sky, to provide some relief to those loved ones who lost their men on the Breguet Atlantique.

 

[Munir]

Or that spy that we returned alive. Why do they kill our soldier and civilians if they return them? Now they wanna teach us how to be anti Pakistan and pro-India. What's next... JAi Hind as my signature?

Yes I am a part of the Think Tank. But this Think Thank acted exactly how majority of the Indians post. Highly arrogant and negative. Maybe that is a lesson for them to understand that they are guests. Do not spit in our face.