PMLN announce political alliance with Jahangir Tareen party.

[PakAlp]

Now imagine a relatively naive and simpleminded overseas investor coming to the country, and having to deal with this. They turn tail and leave on the first flight out.

its like your talking about me. I wouldn't say I am smart enough to follow Pakistani business culture, always had bad experiences, people chatting bubbles, making big promises and after money is given, suddenly big excuses come and your job is half done. It can only be done through big connections where they know the consequences of ripping you off.

This is why a honest, simple minded politician cannot survive in Pakistan and only the smart, intelligent guys come at the top, they know the value of money, connections, power. This is not a praise, we have a saying "only gamer people can survive in politics" these gamer people are smart and intelligent, they will trap you in such ways you will not find out.

 

[Mustang125]

sorry, here is the problem. I guess once you have been on PDF long enough you realise who is who after a while.

@Meengla literally parrots the pointers of GHQ/ISPR. You see there was a tirade laden thread made by this tout making all sorts of accusations on IK during bajwa's time.

How out of the blue and perfectly timed it was as if ISPR/GHQ had an direct upload link to @Meengla

anyway, I have been following politics of Pakistan since the 80's and remember the musical chairs of the 90's and how the then establishment launched mian amritsari kabaria lohar against ppp.

then you see you could carryout the baja type haramzadghi with ease. not today. even bhutto's people were forced to leave him. however today as the junta stands exposed everyone knows the game at play.

The junta needs to understand that its grip on power has been exposed. even in the 80's people who spoke against the junta existed but they were negligible in numbers but today majority of the 250+ million are anti junta.

even if IK is killed under some false case like they are trying who is going to buy this script? They want to eliminate a Hero of Pakistan so the junta can continue to be subservient to its american masters.

I used to be pro junta. One has to realise that the nation has been kept hungry, illiterate and jahil for so long. That was by design and its designers are the junta. literally where the british left off the junta picked it up and continues it.

lastly, even the sister of Jinnah was a traitor!! that's how evil this junta is. @Meengla is their spokesperson on this here forum.


Those of us who are born overseas and know a world where Pakistani system does not exist are always going to be threat. We overseas people know a working system and the Pakistani system. Because we can see Pakistan from in and out.

I have seen Pakistan's Thrive once they left Pakistan and settled abroad BUT they would trillion percent have failed to climb the ladder in Pakistan unless blessing of the junta was on their side.

Bro, the name calling hasn’t subsided at all. Neither am I or you, or any other Expat Pakistani clueless. Shit like this really makes laugh that we have come to a time in which being an overseas Pakistani Lol is tantamount to an abuse . Wtf are you? Also Gen X are considered to be from 43-58 age group. So you’re really not that young to be a boomers son. Y’all need to come out with a hate of somebody who is standing up to the status quo. The hate is real and the personal bias is real.

 

[khansaheeb]

You and I tend to agree on most things here. But here we differ.
My basic point is Imran was a power hungry stupid arrogant person not suitable to rule a complex country like Pakistan. Sincerity and financial proprietary without a brain just doesn't cut it. There are tens of millions of well-meaning Pakistanis who are absolutely not corrupt. Probably the Moulvi of the mosque near my home in Karachi would qualify as 'Sadiq and Amin', as would the greats like Sattar Edhi. But were they the 'material' to rule a country like Pakistan?? No.

Also, I am sad to see even otherwise smart people like you and @PakFactor can't see that Imran made HUGE blunders and the roots of his blunders were in his stupid, arrogant brain. He is too stupid to lead Pakistan. I am resisting accusing him of corruption or manhandling of opponents and of his other faults because I don't have any proof of those and I am a very careful person in forming my opinion. But I have formed my opinion and I don't see anything in Imran Khan's behavior to make me change that opinion.
He is the 'Nadaan Dost' of Pakistan, at best.

PS. You are likely to see in coming weeks that the recent changes have the blessings of Pakistan's foreign friends, starting from China. There were already hints about that before the May 9 events. One of my favorite Chinese PDF Members said months ago that Imran's agitation was not good for Pakistan. Often people not too deep into the fanboism in Pakistan have the perspective to make objective analysis.

Chinese are interested in their investments and Pakistan as a strategic ally and they are indifferent to who is in power, it's not really an issue as long as no one anti-Chinese is leading Pakistan.

IK, though not unintelligent, displayed a certain naivety and detachment from the harsh realities of Pakistan's political landscape, particularly the deeply ingrained corruption. His lack of awareness regarding the true nature of the politicians who aligned themselves with his party was evident. When faced with adversity, those very politicians abandoned him, leaving him isolated and vulnerable, reminiscent of Julius Caesar's fate. He attempted to challenge and dismantle the very pillars that had initially supported him, only to find himself mercilessly and painfully brought down.

In his pursuit of change, IK placed excessive faith in the power of the people, believing that their support would ultimately save him from any downfall. However, he failed to learn from the lessons of past leaders like Morsi, whose demise should have served as a cautionary tale. His lack of meticulous planning and failure to do his due diligence became apparent, as he surrounded himself with a team of ill-advised individuals, leading to a series of missteps.

To be sure, IK did succeed in causing a significant headache for the establishment, and this was evident in the ferocious backlash he faced. The establishment retaliated with unrestrained force, orchestrating a systematic and unconstitutional deconstruction of the PTI. Furthermore, IK's overreliance on people power proved to be a fatal flaw, as his supporters faltered under the weight of the establishment's coercion, causing the PTI organization to crumble and lose its direction.

It can be concluded that IK's downfall was a result of his limited understanding of the complex Pakistani political dynamics and his failure to devise an effective comprehensive strategy. While his intentions may have been noble, his lack of preparedness and flawed decision-making ultimately led to his tragic and painful foreign supported downfall, leaving him isolated and betrayed.

The dream team that was the joy , hope and ticket to prosperity of the young of Pakistan has become the nightmare of yesterday and a painful realisation that more sacrifice and pain will be needed for real and meaningful change. Pakistan is being managed by external forces and only democratic change through people power can break the shackles of external control and influence.

 

[Mustang125]

Personal anecdote time, back in 2013 I was what people here would call a patwari and being from Lahore (@lastofthepatriots) I was a big fan of Shahbaz Sharif. That I fought with my whole family who wanted to vote for PTI and I alone voted for Saif Ul malook Khokhar and Afzal Khokhar. Years later I realized my mistake and corrected course. Now I am a clueless expat according to some durr fiteh muh!

 

[Meengla]

he should have done what erdogan did in turkey (not debating whether he is good or bad). slowly but gradually kick out the military and reduce its power.

but the thing is that IK cannot play the long game. he is too arrogant and impatient. he did not use to listen to genuine advice and instead used to listen to khushamadis like fawad chaudhry. and had a god-complex that whatever he is saying is right. hope he has learned his lesson.

[ I don't know if I am quoting you in the right thread]: But, yes, the bolded part expresses my understanding: Pakistan was and is not ripe for revolutions and any patriotic Pakistani must be thankful of that because the only 'revolution' that can happen would topple the Establishment and then?? Look at the alternatives, or the lack of?

It’s not that I found him the best or even decently capable of running the country, but he was trying and learning on the job. I for one had hoped he would have had the courage to keep on Atif Mian, for instance,

Oh, I wished Imran, the Riyasat e Medina guy would have put his foot down on Atif Mian!! But the Imran wanted to be on the 'same page' with not only with the Establishment but with also the obscurantist parts of Pakistani society. You see: Imran Khan, despite the bombastic claims of Riyasat e Medina, always had feet of clay!

Benazir could have led, in the 90s towards the same reforms being done at the time in India, and we could have been in a better political and economic state. But the back and forth with PMLN turned the politics and economic landscape into a circus, with many in the community here happy to see Musharraf take over.

Benazir and the PPP was the victim of the biggest travesty of fairness and justice in Pakistan's political history starting 1977.

We had alot of hope for PTI and IK, a reformist development party. Brother @Meengla was a big Pti supporter but he is just disappointed with what happened, i can understand where he is coming from, he wanted PTI leadership to make good decisions, protect the party, protect the hardwork, dont allow lotas (look what happened now), try to make decisions in benefit of the party and Pakistan but the anti establishment narrative destroyed Pti, the NCM, not listening to SMQ, Pervez Ellahi, Sheikh Rasheed caused destruction to the party. He is correct though.

You got that right!!

Why I am so BITTER about Imran Khan: Because, until the NCM of April 2022, I saw him as the best hope for Pakistan. And so those, who feel the most betrayed--and duped--are the most vocal against those who duped them. I was listening to Ali Zafar's 'Hum Taaba Abad' re-incarnation of the old song during the OIC Summit in Islamabad into late March 2022, feeling proud of Pakistan and its new energetic leader Imran Khan. But my idol crashed on the NCM debacle and, believe me, I have not watched a single patriotic Pakistani song since then. But now I do have the satisfaction of recognizing Imran Khan then--a tyrant, a charlatan, and a stupid person.

 

[FuturePAF]

[ I don't know if I am quoting you in the right thread]: But, yes, the bolded part expresses my understanding: Pakistan was and is not ripe for revolutions and any patriotic Pakistani must be thankful of that because the only 'revolution' that can happen would topple the Establishment and then?? Look at the alternatives, or the lack of?

Oh, I wished Imran, the Riyasat e Medina guy would have put his foot down on Atif Mian!! But the Imran wanted to be on the 'same page' with not only with the Establishment but with also the obscurantist parts of Pakistani society. You see: Imran Khan, despite the bombastic claims of Riyasat e Medina, always had feet of clay!


Benazir and the PPP was the victim of the biggest travesty of fairness and justice in Pakistan's political history starting 1977.



You got that right!!

Why I am so BITTER about Imran Khan: Because, until the NCM of April 2022, I saw him as the best hope for Pakistan. And so those, who feel the most betrayed--and duped--are the most vocal against those who duped them. I was listening to Ali Zafar's 'Hum Taaba Abad' re-incarnation of the old song during the OIC Summit in Islamabad into late March 2022, feeling proud of Pakistan and its new energetic leader Imran Khan. But my idol crashed on the NCM debacle and, believe me, I have not watched a single patriotic Pakistani song since then. But now I do have the satisfaction of recognizing Imran Khan then--a tyrant, a charlatan, and a stupid person.

What do you think the prospects for the nation if SMQ becomes the PM?

 

[HAIDER]

What do you think the prospects for the nation if SMQ becomes the PM?

Pakistan need PM with International recognition and face world media/criticism on Pakistan. And right now , only IK who has capacity and capability to deal with world financial institutions and leaders..... no one else right now.

 

[FuturePAF]

its like your talking about me. I wouldn't say I am smart enough to follow Pakistani business culture, always had bad experiences, people chatting bubbles, making big promises and after money is given, suddenly big excuses come and your job is half done. It can only be done through big connections where they know the consequences of ripping you off.

This is why a honest, simple minded politician cannot survive in Pakistan and only the smart, intelligent guys come at the top, they know the value of money, connections, power. This is not a praise, we have a saying "only gamer people can survive in politics" these gamer people are smart and intelligent, they will trap you in such ways you will not find out.

It’s the story of many of us, especially overseas and/or in the younger generation. Who wants to both with this system unless you have to.

Thinking about it now, IK is basically an Overseas Pakistani come home and eventually become PM, that’s also why many overseas Pakistanis live him so much. It means if he can do it, then maybe overseas Pakistanis too can come home and fit in without having to deal with the formal and informal red tape.

 

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan need PM with International recognition and face world media/criticism on Pakistan. And right now , only IK who has capacity and capability to deal with world financial institutions and leaders..... no one else right now.

I think SMQ could do it if IK was president. The goal should be achieving the mission (and getting IK back in an office where he can work with the system and motivate her public).

The reforms are what’s important. The question that those that don’t want IK back should answer are who will be willing to carry out the reforms the nation badly needs and be willing to take the blame.

IK also needs a plan and time to build up the party (similar to Zardari’s statement upon becoming president in 2008)

Exclusive: The curious Presidency of Mr Zardari

Zardari made history by becoming the first elected civilian president to complete his constitutional tenure

www.dawn.com

to raise up a new generation of grassroots party officials that can run the country once he and his generation pass on. IK should think of the changes that need to outlive him, and how best to achieve them.

I’m not saying trust SMQ blindly. He needs to have decisions vetting by a committee of PTI loyalists as well as experts so reforms are not derailed.

In Pakistani politics, no one wants to be a team player. Everyone wants to rule by decrees. Everyone wants to guard their interests and constituents.

SMQ has been wanting the PMship for years now, he should be allowed to do it, if he agrees to the tough reforms, including land reform. The following video is from 3 years ago.

 

[Path-Finder]

Bro, the name calling hasn’t subsided at all. Neither am I or you, or any other Expat Pakistani clueless. Shit like this really makes laugh that we have come to a time in which being an overseas Pakistani Lol is tantamount to an abuse . Wtf are you? Also Gen X are considered to be from 43-58 age group. So you’re really not that young to be a boomers son. Y’all need to come out with a hate of somebody who is standing up to the status quo. The hate is real and the personal bias is real.

are you high?

 

[PakAlp]

r u high?

i read that 3x but still couldn't understand

 

[Path-Finder]

i read that 3x but still couldn't understand

not sure what was being conveyed so I though to use old school text lingo.

 

[PakAlp]

JT will probably meet Nawaz Sharif, seats adjustment between Pmln and IPP on the card.

IPP chief Jahangir Tareen leaves for London: sources

LAHORE: Senior politician Jahangir Tareen has left for London, days after launching Istehkam-e-Pakistan Party (IPP), ARY News reported on Sunday citing

arynews.tv

 

[Meengla]

What do you think the prospects for the nation if SMQ becomes the PM?

Decent experience. I don't care he's a Lota--most are like that in Pakistan.
As long as he delivers--stability is the key.

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

Aleem Khan appointed president of Jahangir Tareen’s Istehkam-e-Pakistan Party​