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You and I tend to agree on most things here. But here we differ.
My basic point is Imran was a power hungry stupid arrogant person not suitable to rule a complex country like Pakistan. Sincerity and financial proprietary without a brain just doesn't cut it. There are tens of millions of well-meaning Pakistanis who are absolutely not corrupt. Probably the Moulvi of the mosque near my home in Karachi would qualify as 'Sadiq and Amin', as would the greats like Sattar Edhi. But were they the 'material' to rule a country like Pakistan?? No.

Also, I am sad to see even otherwise smart people like you and @PakFactor can't see that Imran made HUGE blunders and the roots of his blunders were in his stupid, arrogant brain. He is too stupid to lead Pakistan. I am resisting accusing him of corruption or manhandling of opponents and of his other faults because I don't have any proof of those and I am a very careful person in forming my opinion. But I have formed my opinion and I don't see anything in Imran Khan's behavior to make me change that opinion.
He is the 'Nadaan Dost' of Pakistan, at best.

PS. You are likely to see in coming weeks that the recent changes have the blessings of Pakistan's foreign friends, starting from China. There were already hints about that before the May 9 events. One of my favorite Chinese PDF Members said months ago that Imran's agitation was not good for Pakistan. Often people not too deep into the fanboism in Pakistan have the perspective to make objective analysis.

@Meengla bhai,

I never said Imran Khan was perfect. He did make mistakes, and I also acknowledged those on this forum when the whole Buzdar fiasco started, along with his temperament.

Last night I was at a gathering, and a Texas businessman flew in to attend, and I've dealt with him in business-related matters. He said, and I agree with him, irrespective of what's being said on this forum, that "Imran Khan is a leader we need but do not deserve; he's 200 years too early in Pakistan. Hopefully, in 200 years, Pakistan will catch up to the rest of the world". This businessman came to this country, worked in kitchens, and ended up owning franchises, among other business assets across the U.S., worth upwards of $ 500 million. He was touting from day one never to invest in Pakistan, that what your seeing is just an illusion.

For us young Overseas Pakistanis, we thought he was being unpatriotic several years ago, but as he said last night, the wool pulled over your eyes is now pulled down, and you see what we've seen since the 1960s.
 
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Decent experience. I don't care he's a Lota--most are like that in Pakistan.
As long as he delivers--stability is the key.
Stability and reforms. We can’t keep going the way have been going up until now.
 
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I never said Imran Khan was perfect. He did make mistakes, and I also acknowledged those on this forum when the whole Buzdar fiasco started, along with his temperament.

Mere Bhai,
This goes beyond someone being 'perfect' or not. Imran's persistence with Buzdar alone showed a mindset of rigidness, arrogance, and stupidity. I hear people saying that 99% of Imran's well-wishers tried to get him dump Buzdar but he persisted because of his determination to grow wonderful, tasty apples on a cactus tree. And his blunders since April 2022 are of historic proportions.
I guess we will have to disagree on Imran. Peace!
 
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.,.,
Fya1DK9WYAUini0
 
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Mere Bhai,
This goes beyond someone being 'perfect' or not. Imran's persistence with Buzdar alone showed a mindset of rigidness, arrogance, and stupidity. I hear people saying that 99% of Imran's well-wishers tried to get him dump Buzdar but he persisted because of his determination to grow wonderful, tasty apples on a cactus tree. And his blunders since April 2022 are of historic proportions.
I guess we will have to disagree on Imran. Peace!

That's why I mentioned his temperament, which could encompass the attributes you mentioned. I do not think you and I are far off, but things could have been handled better.

I honestly sat down and thought, in all this, who has won? At the moment, any outside pressure or maneuver could add more stress to the country. Current events of the last month have alienated many people, making them lose their trust in the only institution they looked up to during hard times.

I feel now; the state is vulnerable to outside actors taking action due to a failure of the social contract between the state and its people.

Or I could be overthinking things, but overall the situation does give me a vomiting feeling when I think about Pakistan.
 
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Decent experience. I don't care he's a Lota--most are like that in Pakistan.
As long as he delivers--stability is the key.
Happy 4th @Meengla

I’ve taken a few weeks off from posting on this forum, taken a much desired vacation (to drive down the PCH) and reflect on Pakistan. Call it a midlife crisis or just being a Pakistani-American during this inflection point, that has been active on this and previous versions of this forum for over 20 years and has decided listen more then speak.

I rewatched many videos, particularly the “Pakistan Experience” interview with Atif Mian (#204), and read some books, tried to see it from all sides.

I have come to a few conclusions and they most if not all seem to align with what you have been saying for all these years, if I properly grasp what you have been espousing.

I have come to agree that in the upcoming election, is it not in the best interest of the nation that IK returns as prime minister or even president. Not just because PTI needs reform but because Pakistan needs to achieve its interests and fix its economy while not drawing too much attention from the world for a few years, as IK has clearly irked many powers. Also the post of the PM is not seen globally as the true seat of power, so a vocal PM is mostly negative with limited upside, at this stage. This is the time Pakistan needs a Deng Xiaoping; hide your strength and hide your time.

That’s why I still think SMQ could make a useful PM to service the national interests soon enough, as that Deng like figure.

Although, I do think IK is still vital in ending the political polarization in the nation, so that his party returns to parliament and fully participates, and the nation can show itself internationally as a stable country, politically and economically. At the same time I think a large portion of the nation also does not want a member of the Sharif or Zardari family to hold the top jobs (Prime minister or President) either. This is based on economics first and foremost, as shown by their recent unimaginative budget.

But considering they were able to arrange the IMF bailout, promises were probably made and we will see either Bilawal and/or a member of the Sharif family hold the top posts once more. If it must be so, then so be it. In the grand scheme of things, they are actually just figureheads. But if they are to be able to govern, the people will have to genuinely want to allow them to do so, domestically and in the diaspora. For this IK is needed, to give his acquiescence to the new social contract and not getting a chance to being re-elected.

Thinking about how IK rise to have a realistic chance in 2013 and eventually win the election in 2018; it was just another shortcut that got out of hand for “them”. Many of us bought it, because we thought “they” would carry out reforms. Support for IK, at this point should be seen as the public still wanted to see those reforms being made. They want rule of law, protections under civilian law for civilians, speedy Justice that takes weeks not drags on for decades, ease of doing business.

This brings me to my first epiphany. The nation needs a new social contract if there is any hope of stability, regain our financial independence (through ending the circular debt) in the world and for people to be willing to pay their taxes. The shortsightedness and elite games is about maximizing the individual benefits (in an extractive nature) of most members of the elite without figuring out what it actually takes to run a successful economy. Everyone, PTI included, wanted shortcut solutions handed to them on a silver platter. The nation needs long term planning that reassures primarily the elite that if they pay property taxes the money won’t be embezzled or squandered. If property taxes paid for a large enough portion of the backlog of nearly $80 billion in loans due over the next 3 years and infrastructure upon which we need to become competitive to grow export, then the elite will need to know their sacrifice will be rewarded.

The country and the elite are also not as rich as many make them out to be. They too need clarity, particularly because they operated within the rules, for decades. It’s not fair to “nationalize” their wealth. If they are to give up “elite capture”, they need to know the pie will actually grow.

My second epiphany came when I heard Biden say the Taliban are helping America, in effective defacto recognizing the Talibs. What I realized was that Pakistan needs to move quickly, while Biden is still in office and the Russo-Ukraine war is continuing, to get that railway to Central Asia built, so Pakistan can regain some geo-strategic relevance, as we can not afford to fully lose our relevance in the US.

Being the land route and port for the west into Central Asia would give us some of that. Allowing India to move some goods to and from Central Asia is this route would give us more, as western investors into India and India itself would support some of our other economic interests if we did this, (creating the conditions to have a chance to try to catch up to India on a per capita basis over the next 25 years, because we will then be able to attract probably 2-3% of GDP annually in FDI for decades to come from non-Pakistanis in the gulf and west, and we need this to generate the taxes to provide social services), as it would it not go through Kashmir. A second rail route from Karachi to Gwadar and up to reko-diq would connect to the Iranian rail network and would allow India to ship to Europe via Pakistan, and would also give Gwadar a competitive edge (against Chabahar or even some Indian ports).

The US would therefore also not hassle us too much if we used these two rail routes are build and used to ship goods to and from China. If India is to become the strategic partner with the U.S., Pakistan needs to really make itself a strategic economic and technology partner with China, but in a way that allows Pakistan to maximize exports to the world, not just China.

This rail route is crucial if we are to forge an economic road map where we integrate ourselves into Chinese supply chains. Our cheaper labor and location between China and raw materials as well as many growing markets needs to be focused upon. We need technology transfers via joint ventures for the domestic market and exports to the world and even China, and it is also in China’s interest if Pakistan’s economy and purchasing power grows and can absorb more Chinese exports for goods and services. It will also bode well for China’s BRI ambitious getting back on track. Lessons from Pakistan’s political reforms, dealing with Afghanistan and Chinese investment could be useful lessons in other BRI countries, particularly in Africa.

Also, President Xi is probably more open to supporting Pakistan if it makes reforms because of China’s strategic economic and security ambitions. Pakistan needs to seize this moment. With China’s help, Pakistan can cement long term transit trade and mining processing agreements with the Afghans.

Joint ventures by Chinese firms with large Pakistani companies but also small and medium enterprises in Pakistan, in the fields of Agricultural modernization, solar power, batteries, pharmaceuticals, EV/Hybrids (hybrids in case the grid goes down because we are prioritizing electricity to industry), rail and public transport infrastructure, and IT/support services for Chinese firms in global markets should be focused upon.

Our agricultural exports to China as well as the Middle East can be a foundation for a stable economy as well as a way to draw investment and constantly increase productivity, especially as investment in water management can grow arable land 50% with a half dozen more major dams and more canals.

These technology and business/management practices need to be in a way to LEAPFROG Indian companies so we can achieve faster growth than India and become a more attractive investment market for the world. Also, Pakistani companies need to develop their own intellectual products that it can turn around and succeed best locally and then be able to sell internationally.

Stability and the right long term regulations are key for small and medium enterprises to invest in Pakistan with capital and talent, and be better able to compete and employ more people than SOEs. It’s the way Poland copied Germany’s Mittlestand and prevented the rise of oligarchs, (even grew through the 2008 global crisis) in the post communist era, unlike Ukraine. It’s also a way for people to go abroad and learn skills and have the right incentives to bring them back.

But it brings me to the third epiphany. If there is no place for IK in the political landscape, implement most if not all of party’s platform and allow him to retire from politics. Have him go around the diaspora try to motivate people to invest in Pakistan. Allow him to be part of the solution and no longer a thorn in mending the fissures all sides have created over the past few decades. In fact, have all the parties reform over the next 5 years to hire and promote competent administrators. Let the rich focus on economics and let skilled democratically elected administrators run the country and increase social services year on year.

Our elite need to focus on invest, including in our nation’s soft power, including cultural products (film industry), tourism industry based on our thousands of years of history, and spread our cuisine globally like the Thais. (Pakistan needs its best restaurant in the Roosevelt hotel in midtown New York and next to Grand Central, to show case our culture through food and uniforms, etc.)

Do this all before the elections, and then people won’t really care who wins the election, because all the consequential changes will have been made.

P.S. just so anyone reading understands, It’s not that I don’t want a PTI government back in office, but we have to look at achieving the national interests and achieving long term reforms via a new social contract.

If the social contract allows competition based on the right incentives, the Work ethic will from the top down will become like other competitive nations.

Second P.S. if these reforms can be made, all the different sections of the population will be able to forgive the politicians and “them” and allow everyone to move past all of this and focus on development (such as training our people to serve locally or be skilled enough to go abroad and earn send remittances and gain cutting edge knowledge and invest in Pakistan) and unity, so that in a generation, when our population will be equal to the US population and India’s demographic dividend will have ended (similar to China taking off once Japan started declining in the late 80s), Pakistan will be able to have its moment, akin to what India is de to have for the next 20 years.

3rd P.S. it won’t be made if after these reforms and a couple years of stabilizing the economy with higher taxes, the country gives back and spend money on building museums to say it is the nation that is the descendants of the Indus Valley civilization, prior to the Aryan (Hindu) invasion/migration From Central Asia (which should be proven with archaeological and genetic proof) after the and Bronze Age collapse of the IVC in 1500 - 1300 BCE, and the people had a way of life before the Hindu religion, then had various religions including what is understood as Hinduism, then Buddhism in many areas, then mostly Islam. Setting the narrative arch right. On the global stage playing up our region’s Sufi way of peaceful co-existence and great contributions under the Mughals should also be emphasized, not ignored because not everyone was a Sufi or a Mughal. To also say Pakistan is the inheritor of a civilization.
 
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It is a misconception that voters' don't change their loyalties! And May 9 has changed a lot in Pakistan. Voters are not the same anymore.

Imran's popularity, like others popularity, has been going up and down. Leading to the April 2022 NCM, PTI was losing byelections and even lost some important local elections in his stronghold of KPK. Imran was unpopular then and that's why he didn't call for early-elections leading to the NCM. Otherwise, with a stroke of his pen, the Assemblies would have been dissolved and fresh elections would have been called. Opposition realized that Imran had finally realized--just before the end of March 2022-- that his allies had deserted him and the Establishment had decided not to arm-twist Imran's allies to support Imran anymore; so the Opposition rushed to file the NCM. They knew once an NCM is tabled, it has to be voted upon. I am surprised no one talks about the breaking of the Constitution by throwing out the NCM--that was enough to punish Imran.

Coming back to what you are saying above: No, Imran will NOT be allowed to have a significant input in running the PTI for at least next few years. He burned his bridges with all. And on top of that, there is a valid concern that Imran is temperamentally not capable of course correction.
Agree
I am the best example
I now support Asim munir sahab and IPP

.,.,
What I’m most scared of….
PPP coming back even in Punjab with the army’s blessings
They turned Karachi into a wasteland what will they do to every other part of the country?

Imagine them bringing PPP in Punjab. The only somewhat liveable province in the country & it will turn into another disaster zone.

Plus the idea of Bilawal as PM? We will actually be a banana republic.
Idea?
It seems it's already decided
 
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Happy 4th @Meengla

I’ve taken a few weeks off from posting on this forum, taken a much desired vacation (to drive down the PCH) and reflect on Pakistan. Call it a midlife crisis or just being a Pakistani-American during this inflection point, that has been active on this and previous versions of this forum for over 20 years and has decided listen more then speak.

I rewatched many videos, particularly the “Pakistan Experience” interview with Atif Mian (#204), and read some books, tried to see it from all sides.

I have come to a few conclusions and they most if not all seem to align with what you have been saying for all these years, if I properly grasp what you have been espousing.

I have come to agree that in the upcoming election, is it not in the best interest of the nation that IK returns as prime minister or even president, PTI needs reform. I still think SMQ could make a useful PM to service the national interests soon enough.

Although, I do think IK is still vital in ending the political polarization in the nation, so that his party returns to parliament and fully participates, and the nation can show itself internationally as a stable country, politically and economically. At the same time I think a large portion of the nation also does not want a member of the Sharif or Zardari family to hold the top jobs (Prime minister or President) either. This is based on economics first and foremost, as shown by their recent unimaginative budget.

But considering they were able to arrange the IMF bailout, promises were probably made and we will see either Bilawal and/or a member of the Sharif family hold the top posts once more. If it must be so, then so be it. In the grand scheme of things, they are actually just figureheads. But if they are to be able to govern, the people will have to genuinely want to allow them to do so, domestically and in the diaspora. For this IK is needed, to give his acquiescence to the new social contract and not getting a chance to being re-elected.

Thinking about how IK rise to have a realistic chance in 2013 and eventually win the election in 2018; it was just another shortcut that got out of hand for “them”. Many of us bought it, because we thought “they” would carry out reforms. Support for IK, at this point should be seen as the public still wanted to see those reforms being made.

This brings me to my first epiphany. The nation needs a new social contract if there is any hope of stability, regain our financial independence (through ending the circular debt) in the world and for people to be willing to pay their taxes. The shortsightedness and elite games is about maximizing the individual benefits (in an extractive nature) of most members of the elite without figuring out what it actually takes to run a successful economy. Everyone, PTI included, wanted shortcut solutions handed to them on a silver platter. The nation needs long term planning that reassures primarily the elite that if they pay property taxes the money won’t be embezzled or squandered. If property taxes paid for a large enough portion of the backlog of nearly $80 billion in loans due over the next 3 years and infrastructure upon which we need to become competitive to grow export, then the elite will need to know their sacrifice will be rewarded.

The country and the elite are also not as rich as many make them out to be. They too need clarity, particularly because they operated within the rules, for decades. It’s not fair to “nationalize” their wealth. If they are to give up “elite capture”, they need to know the pie will actually grow.

My second epiphany came when I heard Biden say the Taliban are helping America, in effective defacto recognizing the Talibs. What I realized was that Pakistan needs to move quickly, while Biden is still in office and the Russo-Ukraine war is continuing, to get that railway to Central Asia built, so Pakistan can regain some geo-strategic relevance, as we can not afford to fully lose our relevance in the US.

Being the land route and port for the west into Central Asia would give us some of that. Allowing India to move some goods to and from Central Asia is this route would give us more, as western investors into India and India itself would support some of our other economic interests if we did this, (creating the conditions to have a chance to try to catch up to India on a per capita basis over the next 25 years, because we will then be able to attract probably 2-3% of GDP annually in FDI for decades to come from non-Pakistanis in the gulf and west, and we need this to generate the taxes to provide social services), as it would it not go through Kashmir. A second rail route from Karachi to Gwadar and up to reko-diq would connect to the Iranian rail network and would allow India to ship to Europe via Pakistan, and would also give Gwadar a competitive edge (against Chabahar or even some Indian ports).

The US would therefore also not hassle us too much if we used these two rail routes are build and used to ship goods to and from China. If India is to become the strategic partner with the U.S., Pakistan needs to really make itself a strategic economic and technology partner with China, but in a way that allows Pakistan to maximize exports to the world, not just China.

This rail route is crucial if we are to forge an economic road map where we integrate ourselves into Chinese supply chains. Our cheaper labor and location between China and raw materials as well as many growing markets needs to be focused upon. We need technology transfers via joint ventures for the domestic market and exports to the world and even China, and it is also in China’s interest if Pakistan’s economy and purchasing power grows and can absorb more Chinese exports for goods and services. It will also bode well for China’s BRI ambitious getting back on track. Lessons from Pakistan’s political reforms, dealing with Afghanistan and Chinese investment could be useful lessons in other BRI countries, particularly in Africa.

Also, President Xi is probably more open to supporting Pakistan if it makes reforms because of China’s strategic economic and security ambitions. Pakistan needs to seize this moment. With China’s help, Pakistan can cement long term transit trade and mining processing agreements with the Afghans.

Joint ventures by Chinese firms with large Pakistani companies but also small and medium enterprises in Pakistan, in the fields of Agricultural modernization, solar power, batteries, pharmaceuticals, EV/Hybrids (hybrids in case the grid goes down because we are prioritizing electricity to industry), rail and public transport infrastructure, and IT/support services for Chinese firms in global markets should be focused upon.

Our agricultural exports to China as well as the Middle East can be a foundation for a stable economy as well as a way to draw investment and constantly increase productivity, especially as investment in water management can grow arable land 50% with a half dozen more major dams and more canals.

These technology and business/management practices need to be in a way to LEAPFROG Indian companies so we can achieve faster growth than India and become a more attractive investment market for the world.

Stability and the right long term regulations are key for small and medium enterprises to invest in Pakistan with capital and talent, and be better able to compete and employ more people than SOEs. It’s the way Poland copied Germany’s Mittlestand and prevented the rise of oligarchs, (even grew through the 2008 global crisis) in the post communist era, unlike Ukraine. It’s also a way for people to go abroad and learn skills and have the right incentives to bring them back.

But it brings me to the third epiphany. If there is no place for IK in the political landscape, implement most if not all of party’s platform and allow him to retire from politics. Have him go around the diaspora try to motivate people to invest in Pakistan. Allow him to be part of the solution and no longer a thorn in mending the fissures all sides have created over the past few decades. In fact, have all the parties reform over the next 5 years to hire and promote competent administrators. Let the rich focus on economics and let skilled democratically elected administrators run the country and increase social services year on year.

Our elite need to focus on invest, including in our nation’s soft power, including cultural products (film industry), tourism industry based on our thousands of years of history, and spread our cuisine globally like the Thais. (Pakistan needs its best restaurant in the Roosevelt hotel in midtown New York and next to Grand Central, to show case our culture through food and uniforms, etc.)

Do this all before the elections, and then people won’t really care who wins the election, because all the consequential changes will have been made.

P.S. just so anyone reading understands, It’s not that I don’t want a PTI government back in office, but we have to look at achieving the national interests and achieving long term reforms via a new social contract.

Second P.S. if these reforms can be made, all the different sections of the population will be able to forgive the politicians and “them” and allow everyone to move past all of this and focus on development (such as training our people to serve locally or be skilled enough to go abroad and earn send remittances and gain cutting edge knowledge and invest in Pakistan) and unity, so that in a generation, when our population will be equal to the US population and India’s demographic dividend will have ended, Pakistan will be able to have its moment, akin to what India is de to have for the next 20 years.

3rd P.S. it won’t be made if after these reforms and a couple years of stabilizing the economy with higher taxes, the country gives back and spend money on building museums to say it is the nation that is the descendants of the Indus Valley civilization, prior to the Aryan invasion and Bronze Age collapse in 1300 BCE, and the people had a way of life before the Hindu religion, then had various religions including what is understood as Hinduism, then Buddhism in many areas, then mostly Islam. Setting the narrative arch right. On the global stage playing up our region’s Sufi way of peaceful co-existence and great contributions under the Mughals should also be emphasized, not ignored because not everyone was a Sufi or a Mughal. To also say Pakistan is the inheritor of a civilization.
I disagree that IK would have come into power
It is impossible for an outsider (perceived) to win in north Punjab or Sindh especially since both parties have been there for 40 and 20 years consecutively.
PTI would have never won beyond KP.


Lastly the country is corrupt from head to toe, those who have worked there know it not the diaspora as country was in good shape till early 2000s but went really bad last 10 yrs.

Pakistan will/may get cheap high return investments from countries due to it's large market size but it has no rule or future in economies

Pakistan will run on remittances like all other corrupt and poor countries of the world

Lastly no reforms will happen as military inc can't afford any reforms.

IK is done and dusted. That was decided back in Early 2022 things went abit out of control but we are seeing the end game now

After elections the goal will be completely silence him one way or the other.
 
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Ik and establishment can't stay together

Pakistan can survive without Ik but can't survive (in current form) without establishment

Hence Ik has to go

Where is IPP now? LOL
Inshallah sir dua Karin
I don't want maryum in power so hoping Asim munir shahab will give his blessing for JTK
 
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Agree
I am the best example
I now support Asim munir sahab and IPP
It is hard to say when you are not trolling!?? Please don't be the El Sidd of this forum (I am not mentioning him--called him a troll plenty of times and he knows that).
Ik and establishment can't stay together
Pakistan can survive without Ik but can't survive (in current form) without establishment
Nobody can co-exist with the Establishment as long as Pakistan is a 'security state'. If Noon League would be stupid enough to put Nawaz Sharif as the PM, then another round of anarchy is coming up: Nawaz, like Imran, is not temperamentally suited to be on top but, HOPEFULLY, after the last three humiliation, Nawaz has learned some lessons.

@FuturePAF Happy (belated) 4th to you as well. There is a lot you have written in your post above and I need to digest that first. But, in general, I am with Zia ul Islam about your post: Imran is done and dusted--into the foreseeable future.
 
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Absolutely not.
Benazir was also sacked in 1990 and was very popular then. The Establishment and its allies destroyed her to the extent that in 1990 she badly lost--popularity or not. Also understand that Pakistan is a 'security state'; it is not a 'normal' state. People have deep love for the military and Imran's dent into that love is not significant enough. Pakistanis instinctively know that the military is the last pillar of stability in Pakistan; you remove that without an alternative, you will destroy Pakistan like some Middle Eastern countries were destroyed. Gen. Hamid Gul always emphasized that point.

About people's loyalties to Imran: People have very transient loyalties. The concerted propaganda against Imran by all others in Pakistan plus the politics of the 'electables' is going to ensure not only PTI--if it is still left by October--loses but also Imran either imprisoned or deported. I can write these lines with a fair degree of certainty here.

You need to study Pakistan's political history and don't pay too much attention to the PDF fanbois who are often expats and deluded. Worse, they seem to want anarchy in Pakistan and cheer on the mayhem and destruction, while sitting comfortably in richer countries. On the ground, people outside of cities, vote along clan, biradery systems, follow their clan leaders, Sardars, Chaudhries, Murshids... the electables!

Another important point: PTI's voters may not even come out to vote. You see: Like PPP voters stayed home because they thought it would be futile to vote, the PTI voters are very likely to not come out to vote even if the elections would be totally fair.

Finally, , Imran's arrest is coming up. The military seems to want to prepare the ground for that. And no one will be able to stop that--not his 'fanatical supporters' either.
I live in central Punjab and i can confirm that army has lost all the respect and people literally abuse them in their daily gupshup

Army already has zero respect in kpk, Balochistan,Sindh and now its downfall in Punjab will have very bright consequences for Pakistan itself and very dark future for army generals.

Even patwaris here accept that army is the actual ruler of Pakistan and shahbaz and co are circus clowns
But they have lost all the hope that army can be one day put back to barracks

Only Youthias have that hope.


Hamam tu le k universities tak dekh lia mein
Army lae hun gallan tu sawa kuch nae bchia.
 
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