PM Modi greets Bangladeshis on Ramzan, speaks to PM Hasina

[jamahir]

Don't you find his casteist views problematic as a socialist? He said he'll vote for anyone who's of his caste.

Yes, I will suggest to @GHALIB that he should look at Progressive ideology rather than caste bloc voting. He himself speaks of Majrooh Sultanpuri being part of Progressive Hindi cinema who belonged to his clan.

Google told me that there is a AAP unit in Sultanpur so he should support this party.

 

[Kaniska]

Thanks for the clarification, though you did not clarified one thing - do you support BJP because you view anti BJP=anti Hindu? I mean you support BJP because "Hindu khatre me hai", right?

Of course you are right...As long as people oppose BJP for wrong policies that do not qualify them as anti Hindu...For example even Jamahir and Ghalib are not BJP supporter too...But i admire them....

 

[jamahir]

For example even Jamahir and Ghalib are not BJP supporter too...But i admire them....

Thank you.

 

[Naofumi]

Of course you are right...As long as people oppose BJP for wrong policies that do not qualify them as anti Hindu...For example even Jamahir and Ghalib are not BJP supporter too...But i admire them....

Thanks for the clarification again.

 

[GHALIB]

Yes, I will suggest to @GHALIB that he should look at Progressive ideology rather than caste bloc voting. He himself speaks of Majrooh Sultanpuri being part of Progressive Hindi cinema who belonged to his clan.

Google told me that there is a AAP unit in Sultanpur so he should support this party.

for all practical purposes i am progressive in my outlook ,
but as i mentioned local politics forces our clan members to vote for rajputs .

yes AAP mp sanjay singh is from sultanpur . he was earlier representative of a local MLA O.P. SINGH later he joined kejriwal in delhi and became member of parliament from rajya sabha
but AAP has no significant presence in sultanpur .

 

[Naofumi]

Of course you are right...As long as people oppose BJP for wrong policies that do not qualify them as anti Hindu...For example even Jamahir and Ghalib are not BJP supporter too...But i admire them....

BTW, is NRC a "wrong policy"?

Is communal politics a "wrong policy"?

 

[jamahir]

yes AAP mp sanjay singh is from sultanpur . he was earlier representative of a local MLA O.P. SINGH later he joined kejriwal in delhi and became member of parliament from rajya sabha .

Yes. Wikipedia told me that Sanjay Singh is one of the original people from AAP's early days.

I would suggest to you to not vote for SP, BSP or BJP but for AAP.

 

[Naofumi]

Yes. Wikipedia told me that Sanjay Singh is one of the original people from AAP's early days.

I would suggest to you to not vote for SP, BSP or BJP but for AAP.

Dude, he clearly said that he'll vote for BJP if candidate is Sultanpuri Rajput. I don't think advice from a stranger will change his views. Anyways, nice Tabligh.

 

[Kaniska]

BTW, is NRC a "wrong policy"?

I got what you are basically asking to me...

Overall, we have a problem of BD illegals in our country..I strongly India is not a country to allow a single Muslim to enter and change the politics of our nation...South Asian Muslims who believes in these thoughts have made their country...Good luck with them..
Now we need laws to prevent any illegals to come and change demography. Currently NRC is the mechanism to prevent it...I support it at its objective.But it solve my problem altogether??? I doubt it will solve the problem but it is a starting point to solve it...Again, i will go back to my original question? Does any political party ever taken any symbolic steps to remove illegals?

So NRC is good at its objective...There are several issues that is difficult to implement...

 

[Bilal9]

I got what you are basically asking to me...

Overall, we have a problem of BD illegals in our country..I strongly India is not a country to allow a single Muslim to enter and change the politics of our nation...South Asian Muslims who believes in these thoughts have made their country...Good luck with them..
Now we need laws to prevent any illegals to come and change demography. Currently NRC is the mechanism to prevent it...I support it at its objective.But it solve my problem altogether??? I doubt it will solve the problem but it is a starting point to solve it...Again, i will go back to my original question? Does any political party ever taken any symbolic steps to remove illegals?

So NRC is good at its objective...There are several issues that is difficult to implement...

Making -'removing illegals an election platform', is basically self congratulatory from the right wing Hindutva standpoint.

And propping up a sort of 'Mafia protection racket' whereby gullible Indians are told to unite under Hindutva umbrella to 'drive out supposedly Muslim enemies'. This sort of fascist and racist (based on religion) rhetoric is not supportable by decent folks anywhere.

We have plenty of Hindus in our country too. But no one is trying to drive them out. Religion is not tattooed on anyone's forehead.

Rather cow-belt RSS folks have the gall to set foot in Bangladesh and are trying to radicalize Hindus in Bangladesh itself.

Screaming 'Hindu Rashtra' at the top of your lungs at PDF everyday will not legitimize these Sanghi's fascist cause. For those who will be surprised at my strong statement, I suggest reading his own statement above,

I strongly India is not a country to allow a single Muslim to enter and change the politics of our nation.

That is the textbook example of a Sanghi Hindutva Racist narrative based on nothing but Sanghi lies, making Muslims your enemy. His mask of politeness has been lifted and he has been shown for who he really is.

It's not that Muslims are trying to enter India, the actual point of focus is making Muslims the enemy of the 'Indian state' (or collection of ethnicities) as people who cannot be trusted, local or Bangladeshi doesn't matter.

@jamahir bhai - is that an example of worldly cosmopolitan outlook? What does racism have to do with being sane and reasonable??

I can personally tell all Indians here - and contrary to BJP propaganda, Bangladesh equals or bests India on most health and economic factors (google is your friend), why would people go to India to make a living??

Indians sitting in Bangladesh are remitting somewhere between $7 to 8 Billion every year. Balance of Trade with India every year is in India's favor for double that amount yearly. Bangladeshi medical and other tourism in India is worth about $5 to 6 Billion every year. Now if Bangladesh takes a hard stance and reverses these processes, only racist outfits like BJP will be responsible for that $30 Billion lost yearly.

Suit yourselves.

 

[Nilgiri]

I got what you are basically asking to me...

Overall, we have a problem of BD illegals in our country..I strongly India is not a country to allow a single Muslim to enter and change the politics of our nation...South Asian Muslims who believes in these thoughts have made their country...Good luck with them..
Now we need laws to prevent any illegals to come and change demography. Currently NRC is the mechanism to prevent it...I support it at its objective.But it solve my problem altogether??? I doubt it will solve the problem but it is a starting point to solve it...Again, i will go back to my original question? Does any political party ever taken any symbolic steps to remove illegals?

So NRC is good at its objective...There are several issues that is difficult to implement...

Its too much conversation in the end for futile end.

As you can see it has already attracted the resident degenerate liar....who is never far from seeing a false flagger in even every BD member here because of its psychotic derangement.

It's just best to just continue do the action now and show these sorts exactly where they stand and why they mean F-all in the end...hence what they get from Burma...and nothing to show for it.

It is best they are forced to do their best to try get rid of SHW/BAL/BCL themselves out of desperation, so we can do the next phase after that. Too many ppl cooped up in one area makes them stir crazy....we can fix that quite easily if they want it. Make room for their illegal exports to return fully.

 

[Kaniska]

Making - removing illegals an election platform is basically self congratulatory from the right wing Hindutva standpoint. And propping up a sort of 'Mafia protection racket' whereby gullible Indians are told to unite under Hindutva umbrella to 'drive out supposedly Muslim enemies'. This sort of fascist and racist (based on religion) rhetoric is not supportable by decent folks anywhere.

We have plenty of Hindus in our country too. But no one is trying to drive them out. Religion is not tattooed on anyone's forehead.

Rather cow-belt RSS folks have the gall to set foot in Bangladesh and are trying to radicalize Hindus in Bangladesh itself.

Screaming 'Hindu Rashtra' at the top of your lungs at PDF everyday will not legitimize these Sanghi's fascist cause. For those who will be surprised at my strong statement, I suggest reading his own statement above,



That is the textbook example of a Sanghi Hindutva Racist narrative based on nothing but Sanghi lies, making Muslims your enemy. His mask of politeness has been lifted and he has been shown for who he really is.

It's not that Muslims are trying to enter India, the actual point of focus is making Muslims the enemy of the 'Indian state' (or collection of ethnicities) as people who cannot be trusted, local or Bangladeshi doesn't matter.

@jamahir bhai - is that an example of worldly cosmopolitan outlook? What does racism have to do with being sane and reasonable??

I can personally tell all Indians here - and contrary to BJP propaganda, Bangladesh equals or bests India on most health and economic factors (google is your friend), why would people go to India to make a living??

Indians sitting in Bangladesh are remitting somewhere between $7 to 8 Billion every year. Balance of Trade with India every year is in India's favor for double that amount yearly. Bangladeshi medical and other tourism in India is worth about $5 to 6 Billion every year. Now if Bangladesh takes a hard stance and reverses these processes, only racist outfits like BJP will be responsible for that $30 Billion lost yearly.

Suit yourselves.

Bilal...please next time do not give me any example of how many Hindus in your country...if they are illegal in your country f** them...But do not expect we will also act in the same way...


Neither i am bothered about what you are planning to do with illegals in your country nor i am expecting BD to influence us about how so we dea with illegals here...

Now do not compare legal immigrants with illegals ones...If you think Indian illegal immigrants are remittimg 30 b from your reserve then it shows your country’s inefficiency rather than doinh any favor to any one...If it is supposedly true that illegals from India remit 30b then take up up govt of India...Sanghis and supposedly anti Muslim people like me with vote for everything to f*** those illegal Hindus from BD to India...

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir bhai - is that an example of worldly cosmopolitan outlook? What does racism have to do with being sane and reasonable??

Well, I feel that @Kaniska has been a bit angry the past two or three days.

 

[Indos]

Thanks but don't you think that this @GHALIB is a fake Muslim?

This attitude will be harmful in the long run. Hindus will find themselves explaining how India is a peaceful country somewhat like Muslims from war-torn countries do


While Ba'athism is secular, it regularly draws populist support from Islamism. Tunisia is a glowing example, Algeria was secular too but military junta likewise Libya.
The best secular Muslim example is that of Turkey and probably some European states, Indonesia (except the Islamist Aceh province) is also comparably secular. @Indos


Legally equal is not equal, constitution is a piece of paper after all, for example - no Hindu is arrested till now in Delhi pogrom while Muslims are being arrested in a spree. For the "apologetic", it works both ways, you can't accuse them for their minority's treatment too.

I have made this explanation to Saudi member before. Here I copy paste my answer that was posted in other thread for you to read.

First, it should be clear that Indonesia is not a secular country, although not an Islamic country either. Indonesia is in between those category.

Here are the reasons:

1. Our State Ideology

Any respected Indonesian or Western analyst will agree that Indonesia is not a secular state. This is because our founding fathers from across the nations have created Pancasila as our state ideology. The name of Pancasila comes from sanskrit words means Five Pillar/Principle. Pancasila is put on the preamble (opening) of our constitution that was made in 1945.

It is Five Pillar (Pancasila) that you can read on Wikipedia English.

1. Belief in the Almighty God
   (in Indonesian "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa"),
2. A just and civilized humanity
   (in Indonesian "Kemanusiaan yang Adil dan Beradab"),
3. A unified Indonesia
   (in Indonesian "Persatuan Indonesia"),
4. Citizens led by the wisdom of representatives consensus
   (in Indonesian "Kerakyatan yang dipimpin oleh Hikmat Kebijaksanaan dalam permusyawaratan/perwakilan"),
5. Social justice for all Indonesians
   (in Indonesian "Keadilan Sosial bagi seluruh Rakyat Indonesia").

The first pillar in English version is not really correct due to people who try to mislead for some reason or just try to make it simple as this words cannot be translated word per word in English. This is the real words in Indonesia "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa" and it should be translated as The concept of God (Ketuhanan) which believe in One God. Esa in sankrit means One as Maha means (very) great. Tuhan means God but Ketuhanan means The concept of God. As we know different religion has different concept of God, some religion believe in One God, other Three Gods and more.

It show that religion in Indonesia should believe in one God. And it is actually derived from concept of Islam called Tauhid. This is one of the reason of Indonesia Hindu Today worship one God called Sang Hyang Widi. You can read more on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acintya and check "political aspect" section.

Indonesia citizen also cannot be Atheist and must choose between 6 official religions and their religion will be put in our citizen ID card.

Other pillars are not against Islam in any possible mean and even have taken many lesson from Islam like forth pillar use the word "musyawarah" which is derived from term in Quran called syura and has the same meaning with that term. I believe you know there is surah As Syura in Quran.

2. Our Constitution Preamble (Opening)

And this is the most important part of our constitution, UUD 45, the preamble part (the opening) based on English translation that is made by UNESCO. And this version that is read by westerners (including their scholars and analyst). Pancasila is also inside the preamble but I just want to show other part that is interesting to see.

Some part on the Constitution PREAMBLE :

Whereas independence is a genuine right of all nations and any form of alien occupation should thus be erased from the earth as not in conformity with humanityand justice,Whereas the struggle of the Indonesian independence movement has reached the blissful point of leading the Indonesian people safely and well before themonumental gate of an independent Indonesian State which shall be free, united, sovereign, just and prosperous, By the grace of God Almighty and urged by the lofty aspiration to exist as a free nation,Now therefore, the people of Indonesia declare herewith their independence,

http://www.unesco.org/education/edurights/media/docs/b1ba8608010ce0c48966911957392ea8cda405d8.pdf

I have make the crucial part bold to show you how westerners mislead our constitution. The actual words is not By the grace of God but By the grace of Allah. The statement doesnt use the word "Tuhan" that is a universal term for God in Indonesian language, but it rather use Allah which is the name of God in Islam, although Allah itself also means God in English. There are two Islamic term on that crucial statement which are Allah and Rahmat.

It is the actual words in our language and I use a link from our parliament official website.

Atas berkat rakhmat Allah Yang Maha Kuasa dan dengan didorongkan oleh keinginan luhur, supaya berkehidupan kebangsaan yang bebas, maka rakyat Indonesia menyatakan dengan ini kemerdekaannya.

http://www.dpr.go.id/jdih/uu1945

That proof show Islamic root on our ideology and constitution and show Indonesia is not a secular country who separate state with religion.

3. Secularism Meaning

This is the meaning of secularism which is widely accepted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism

Dictionary definitions

• Indifference to, or rejection or exclusion of, religion and religious considerations (Merriam-Webster)[1]
• The belief that religion should not be involved with the ordinary social and political activities of a country (Cambridge Dictionary)[3]
• The principle of separation of the state from religious institutions (Oxford Dictionaries)[12]
• A system of social organization and education where religion is not allowed to play a part in civil affairs (Collins)[4]
• A theory, belief, ideology, or political modality that demarcates the secular from other phenomena (usually religious) and prioritizes, the secular over the non-secular in some regard.[13]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Our Government involvement in religious affairs and support to Muslim group

On contrary to Secularism system, Indonesian government involves deeply with religion, particularly Islam and give huge funding to religious group (Muslim) through two important ministry, Ministry of Religion and Ministry of Education. Ministry of Religion give huge funding into Pesantren (private Islamic boarding school) across Indonesia and Ministry of Education give funding to state madrasah school across Indonesia and also Islamic state university and Islamic state Institution (Islamic study). The allocated budget for that is enormous.

Religious study is also compulsory for primary schools and also university for two semesters. Muslim will get Islamic lesson and others get lesson according to their belief (6 official religion).

Minister of Religion also manage Hajj and marriage for Muslim. Minister of Religion itself is very Islamic oriented and always lead by Muslim. Almost all civil servants on that Ministry also Muslim who mostly come from Islamic study graduates. This Ministry is formed as bargain to Muslim group to let go Shariah Islam from our first constitution preamble. The constitution then is called as Jakarta Charter (Piagam Jakarta). Piagam Jakarta is the first version of our state ideology (Pancasila) who put Islamic law as positive law for Muslim.

This is Jakarta Charter

(Constitution 1945)

Preamble


By the grace of Almighty Allah and urged by the lofty aspiration to exist as a free nation,

Now therefore, the people of Indonesia declare herewith their independence,

Pursuant to which, in order to form a Government of the State of Indonesia that shall protect the whole people of Indonesia and the entire homeland of Indonesia, and in order to advance general prosperity, to develop the nation's intellectual life, and to contribute to the implementation of a world order based on freedom, lasting peace and social justice, Indonesia's National Independence shall be laid down in a Constitution of the State of Indonesia, which is to be established as the State of the Republic of Indonesia with sovereignty of the people and based on the belief in the One and Only God, with the obligation to abide by Islamic law for adherents of Islam, on just and civilized humanity, on the unity of Indonesia and on democratic rule that is guided by the strength of wisdom resulting from deliberation / representation, so as to realize social justice for all the people of Indonesia.

Jakarta, 22 June 1945

(This English translation is quite correct in translating our constitution opening)

You can learn more about Jakarta Charter on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta_Charter

 

[Bilal9]

Bilal...please next time do not give me any example of how many Hindus in your country...if they are illegal in your country f** them...But do not expect we will also act in the same way...


Neither i am bothered about what you are planning to do with illegals in your country nor i am expecting BD to influence us about how so we dea with illegals here...

Now do not compare legal immigrants with illegals ones...If you think Indian illegal immigrants are remittimg 30 b from your reserve then it shows your country’s inefficiency rather than doinh any favor to any one...If it is supposedly true that illegals from India remit 30b then take up up govt of India...Sanghis and supposedly anti Muslim people like me with vote for everything to f*** those illegal Hindus from BD to India...

Mr. Space Cadet, come down to earth and situate yourself firmly on terra firma.

You live in India where no one cares for poor people and they lead lives worse than Sub-Saharan Africa. Farmers drink endrine and take their own lives because they can't pay back their agricultural debts in the draught seasons. All the 'Stotam Bakyam' platitudes from Modi will not hide this.

These people live in the shadow right under the shining India, saying this doesn't exist is hiding your Indian heads in the sand, that is today's BJP, RSS and Shivsena.

Going to the local RSS Shakha and taking oaths about destroying Pakistan will not help the destitute in India. Concentrate on your priorities (and take ACTION) rather than going to Muslim neighborhoods and torching their houses. We did over the last forty some odd years, Bangladesh is ahead of India on these health/education and other factors.

Fully two-thirds of all Indians go defecate in the open. Our numbers are close to ZERO. Even the poorest house in Bangladesh has a latrine.

Instead of coming here arguing with me and flinging about four letter words - concentrate on the basics (human decency) and tell your BJP leaders to do the same. Even dogs and cats hide their poop.

Reality is what it is...India's backoffice 'revolution' did not touch these poor people, nor made them fare any better.

And this story is just not for India only. All of us in the neighborhood have our share of poor people, though our situation may not be as bad as in India.

And these poor people in the subcontinent don't know anything about passports or visas or ID cards. They will move around, borders and sentries notwithstanding. Your poor as well as some of ours.

Screaming and ranting about legals and illegals all day in PDF (and killing them at the border) will not change a damn thing. They will keep doing this as they have done for eons.

Everyone knows this is just a paper tiger by Modi and Hindutvabadis to distract gullible Indians from the real issues - which is the effed up state of the Indian economy right now. Even worse under Corona.

Being that our situation is better than India I doubt any Bangladeshi will even go to racist Sanghi India to defecate. They at least have the decency not to do this out in the open.