PM Kakar says Afghan Taliban "illegitimate," ; Pakistan may directly target TTP & its 'supporters' on Afghan soil - SAI

[VkdIndian]

Pakistan helping Taliban to defeat USA was the right thing to do, otherwise they would end up with permanent US presence and Indian presence under US patronage.

Not planning and tying up loose ends while helping Taliban was the worst part. They had enough time to ensure that adequate assurances were taken from Taliban leadership in lieu of the support being provided.
At the end of whole issue, things shouldn’t have been what they are right now.

 

[Bengal71]

Not planning and tying up loose ends while helping Taliban was the worst part. They had enough time to ensure that adequate assurances were taken from Taliban leadership in lieu of the support being provided.
At the end of whole issue, things shouldn’t have been what they are right now.

Which loose end they could tie up, give specifics?

Supporting the Taliban to remove USA and India was the right strategy.

Celebrating Taliban victory was also right because that was the fruit of 21 years of hard work.

Expecting that the Taliban would be friendly and could be used against India in Kashmir was foolish.

The right strategy after Taliban victory is to have good and friendly relationship with them, help them develop the country as much as possible. Ensure Afghanistan and Pakistan become good and useful neighbors to each other. Taliban will not be forever an insurgent group, they have to build Afghanistan to provide vital services to their people, otherwise they will lose power. So, they will become like any other normal government of any other country.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Trust me as someone who has vast knowledge of the geo-strategic realities - I guarantee Iran, Indian rapists, the US will likely arm the Taliban to ensure this war goes on forever as its a win win situation.

Exactly, the worst enemy of Pakistan will suggest to start a front against Afghan Taliban. It would be the happiest moment for india. Its even worst then shooting on one's own foot. It also shows how small and how little far we can see. Absolutely zero vision for folks who wants to make western border a warzone with empty pockets and zero morale and nearly zero local support. That scenario is death sentence even if we had our own oil and trillion dollar economy. They think with these few toys drones and J-10c etc they are some power lol. That nasha will drain out so fast you won't even realize what you have done.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

The only poor thinking on the part of Pakistanis was they thought the Taliban will be friendly and Afghanistan would be an ally. This was the only error in their thinking.

Pakistan never thought Taliban will be friendly and Pakistan's action since US withdrawal are not very friendly and vice-versa. But practically speaking, whats the choice here?

Do you realize what kind of government Taliban had thrown out in Afghanistan. That was the government that was openly a staunch enemy of state of Pakistan. They were totally in bed with indians who are by far the biggest enemy this country has. Indian RAW and Afghan NDS both were doing combined actions against both the Taliban and planning attacks on Pakistan. Pakistan needed Taliban to take over and remove that Pro-indian govt. Pakistan also needed this for its own purpose.

Pakistan is doing a mistake by not engaging with Taliban politically. Pakistan needs to re-establish kind of trust and relationship it had with Taliban during the 90's. The mistrust was definitely created when Pakistan allowed and assisted US to do various drones strikes and missions on Taliban. Taliban has complete support in Afghanistan that's the reason they survived US.

Only mistake Pakistan is doing is trying to alienate Taliban and trying to do arm twisting. This never worked with Taliban. The super power US which was at its peak in 2001 warned Taliban to handover Al-qaeda members and save yourselves and Taliban denied. Do you think they will give any value to the warnings from totally wrecked economy and unstable country with tons of security issues surrounded between enemies? Tailban will only listen to Pakistan and assist Pakistan in eliminating TTP when it fully trusts Pakistan. That's impossible with current military establishment. As Pakistanis themselves don't trust it. This military did a regime change on foreign power behest. Taliban gives value to honor and dignity, they don't give value to such sellable people. Even houthis have more honor, they shoot down drones near their borders unlike Pakistan military which allowed to kill its own citizens.

 

[ST1976]

victorious Taliban fought fair war with US-NATO, and we have no wrong news about Taliban's rule in Afghanis, they are similar to communist Rule like Iran, Russia etc.
Russia was to have diplomatic relation with Taliban ruled Afghan also, but things couldn't go forward...
Taliban are 'son of soil' of Afghan, and deserve a seat in UN also

 

[Haldorss]

It's worth taliban attacking. Pakistan is in no position between India and Afghanistan and Israel+NATO trying to stage something.

Is he talking abou the bachabaaz? I'm against those.

 

[VkdIndian]

Which loose end they could tie up, give specifics?

The current issues on the western borders were expected after withdrawal of US forces. They should have taken an assurance from Taliban against providing them any support when ISI had leverage over them.

That was the biggest oversight.

There are many others. They are all documented in this thread itself for any person to go through and analyse.

 

[Clutch]

IS it just a threat from Pakistan or a change of doctrine?

It's pakistani military begging the US for $$$ and this time they are going to bomb Afghans for some $$$$.

It would be funny if the Afghans do to Pakistan what they did to the Soviets and the Americans. Corrupt Pakistani Military Establishment

 

[Olympus81]

Its a tough neighborhood to be in.

But I don't see how expelling Afghans forefully would be net benefit for Pakistan. This issue has been there for decades and could have been solved with strategic oversight. Start out by controlling the borders, documenting everyone within the borders and a process to repatriate undocumented Afghans back to their countries. Had they done this over a few years, this problem would have subsided considerably. However, they choose to take the kinetic route without proper cost / benefit analysis.

The Pakistani security forces should have known better that TTP problem would not go away even if Taliban took over Afghanistan. They are too intermingled to simply cut TTP off.

Pakistan's long term objective should be to 'manage' Taliban with carrot and stick approach. Have good relations with Taliban at the same time taking out TTP targets.

In the long run, my gut feeling says, if the Taliban do not mend their ways or do away with tribalism and exporting obscurantism, Pakistan's security forces will need to get ready to take them on.

 

[Bengal71]

Pakistan never thought Taliban will be friendly and Pakistan's action since US withdrawal are not very friendly and vice-versa. But practically speaking, whats the choice here?

Do you realize what kind of government Taliban had thrown out in Afghanistan. That was the government that was openly a staunch enemy of state of Pakistan. They were totally in bed with indians who are by far the biggest enemy this country has. Indian RAW and Afghan NDS both were doing combined actions against both the Taliban and planning attacks on Pakistan. Pakistan needed Taliban to take over and remove that Pro-indian govt. Pakistan also needed this for its own purpose.

Pakistan is doing a mistake by not engaging with Taliban politically. Pakistan needs to re-establish kind of trust and relationship it had with Taliban during the 90's. The mistrust was definitely created when Pakistan allowed and assisted US to do various drones strikes and missions on Taliban. Taliban has complete support in Afghanistan that's the reason they survived US.

Only mistake Pakistan is doing is trying to alienate Taliban and trying to do arm twisting. This never worked with Taliban. The super power US which was at its peak in 2001 warned Taliban to handover Al-qaeda members and save yourselves and Taliban denied. Do you think they will give any value to the warnings from totally wrecked economy and unstable country with tons of security issues surrounded between enemies? Tailban will only listen to Pakistan and assist Pakistan in eliminating TTP when it fully trusts Pakistan. That's impossible with current military establishment. As Pakistanis themselves don't trust it. This military did a regime change on foreign power behest. Taliban gives value to honor and dignity, they don't give value to such sellable people. Even houthis have more honor, they shoot down drones near their borders unlike Pakistan military which allowed to kill its own citizens.

Pakistan indeed thought Taliban and Afghanistan would be friendly and could be used against India. I have been in this forum for many years, over a decade, and I remember what Pakistanis used to say.

However, I do think Afghanistan under Taliban can be a good friend and ally. To be frank, Afghanis or Taliban are not the hindrance in being that ally. It is Pakistan's military establishment who are the hindrance. They never have any coherent strategy or execution of the said strategy because of some reasons. Firstly, they are not great strategists; secondly, the COASs come and stay for a few years and their main focus is looting as much as possible within the 3/4 years of 'lease' they got on Pakistan; thirdly, they are sell outs of the highest order, even if there is a good strategy, they digress from it often if they have an interest in making dollars or their American masters ask them to.

The current issues on the western borders were expected after withdrawal of US forces. They should have taken an assurance from Taliban against providing them any support when ISI had leverage over them.

That was the biggest oversight.

There are many others. They are all documented in this thread itself for any person to go through and analyse.

Assurances are never guarantees, I doubt any assurance would have panned out. It's a non-argument.

What are the many others? I have read the whole thread, I fail to see which ones you are referring to.

 

[Borderlands]

Which loose end they could tie up, give specifics?

Supporting the Taliban to remove USA and India was the right strategy.

Celebrating Taliban victory was also right because that was the fruit of 21 years of hard work.

Expecting that the Taliban would be friendly and could be used against India in Kashmir was foolish.

The right strategy after Taliban victory is to have good and friendly relationship with them, help them develop the country as much as possible. Ensure Afghanistan and Pakistan become good and useful neighbors to each other. Taliban will not be forever an insurgent group, they have to build Afghanistan to provide vital services to their people, otherwise they will lose power. So, they will become like any other normal government of any other country.

Loose end is TTP. TTP and Taliban are ideological brothers. Just to remind you, TTP started it's war 16 years ago for Afghan Taliban. Tens of thousands of them died protecting Taliban interest. They gave refuge to Taliban fighters during WOT and got bombed thousands of times for it. Now Afghan Taliban won the war and have an entire nation under its control. Now TTP want afghan Taliban to do what TTP already done for them. And Taliban is an ideological organisation, they kept their word and now supporting TTP.

 

[Bengal71]

Loose end is TTP. TTP and Taliban are ideological brothers. Just to remind you, TTP started it's war 16 years ago for Afghan Taliban. Tens of thousands of them died protecting Taliban interest. They gave refuge to Taliban fighters during WOT and got bombed thousands of times for it. Now Afghan Taliban won the war and have an entire nation under its control. Now TTP want afghan Taliban to do what TTP already done for them. And Taliban is an ideological organisation, they kept their word and now supporting TTP.

So, how could Pakistan tie the loose end TTP?

 

[fitpOsitive]

IS it just a threat from Pakistan or a change of doctrine?

Fart actually.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

However, I do think Afghanistan under Taliban can be a good friend and ally. To be frank, Afghanis or Taliban are not the hindrance in being that ally. It is Pakistan's military establishment who are the hindrance. They never have any coherent strategy or execution of the said strategy because of some reasons. Firstly, they are not great strategists; secondly, the COASs come and stay for a few years and their main focus is looting as much as possible within the 3/4 years of 'lease' they got on Pakistan; thirdly, they are sell outs of the highest order, even if there is a good strategy, they digress from it often if they have an interest in making dollars or their American masters ask them to.

Exactly! For any country be it China or Afghanistan trusting this military establishment is one hell of a task. The way they did regime change and reversal of policy is shocking. Its shocking who could ruin everything that was gained in matter of couple of years.

Taliban were infact collaborating with Pakistan. Right after US withdrawal, previous ISI cheif had linkages with Taliban and many notorious TTP commanders were hunted down in Afghanistan. The TTP specifically issued official statement directed towards its members to keep hiding as new Afghan rulers are collaborating with Punjabis (Pakistanis they meant). But since new ISI cheif and new establishment, regime change everything went disastrous. The new establishment followed US interests to every detail and hence thrown Pakistan in a mess.

 

[Clutch]

What Kakkar is saying that he will start a war with Taliban and the end result like Soviets and Americans will be to loose it.

He is a tool. A nobody. It's the Drunk Whiskey COAS pulling it he strings.