Pipeline may isolate Pakistan globally

[KRAIT]

@Safriz Wrong assumption. Economic sanctions affect the industries which employ lower section of society. Textile industry is one of them.

Considering Pakistan's depleting Pakistani reserves, depreciation of Pakistani Rupee, it will directly and indirectly affect this lower section of society, which is the target of extremist for recruits.

 

[Safriz]

well lets see if the pipeline goes ahead...
US doesnt need to do much....just pay some money to our politicians and the pipeline will be history.

 

[acid rain]

Sanctions will give boost to the black economy - as if we dont have enough of that already in SA.

 

[priti]

dint know a gas pipeline will propduce oil.

damn the americans should take this breaking news for stopping the project. they must take Indians' help

they are all hydrocarbons

 

[RazPaK]

they are all hydrocarbons

What a nerd.

 

[graphican]

After all the anti-US, pro-Iran chest thumping is done, how many ordinary Pakistanis are willing to pay proper taxes to fill this gap?

These are two separate issues. Let me put it the other way around.. if Iran Pakistan relationship would break, would all Pakistanis stop paying their taxes?

Trust comes with leadership, vision and the team. For example I do not pay charity to a druggie or heronchi... .why so? Whatever the reason stops me paying charity to druggies is the one that stops Pakistanis from paying taxes to Treasury as we know they will waste it for nothing.

I have two Questiosn here...

- Do Pakistanis or Pakistan as a country lacks resources? - My Answer is NO, there are plenty of resources and plenty of wealth with the countrymen.

- Is Pakistan out of trustable people, leaders or capable teams? - My Answer is again NO, there are leaders and right people who could be trusted and relied upon.

- Are those trust able leaders and capable teams in power or in place? Again my answer is NO, no yet. And this is all we need to bring. The way country is going, it is not far from reaching that point. There was a time when Nawaz Shareef was trusted my the country as Credible and Trustable leader.. just remember how countrymen had stepped ahead and contributed to Qarz Utaro Mulq Savaro Scheme.

 

[Developereo]

Most countries operate on a social contract: you pay tax and the government provides services.
In Pakistan, it works differently: few people pay taxes; instead they buy their own power generators, water tankers, private schools, security guards, etc. etc.

- Are those trust able leaders and capable teams in power or in place? Again my answer is NO, no yet. And this is all we need to bring. The way country is going, it is not far from reaching that point.

A population that has been paying 0-20% tax won't suddenly cough up 20-30% tax; the whole economy would go upside down.

The corrupt political elite have made the public drunk with a no-tax lifestyle for the last 65+ years and it won't change anytime soon. Except for a few idealists, the general public won't give it up so easily, despite all the dinner table whining about the government.

 

[Jango]

WASHINGTON: The United States might not stop economic assistance to Pakistan over the Iran gas pipeline but the project would seriously strain relations between the two countries, diplomatic sources told Dawn.

“The project will create lot of bitterness towards Pakistan, which Pakistan does not need,” said one source, noting Osama bin Laden’s discovery in Abbottabad had already tarnished Islamabad’s image in the United States.

“The worry about Iran’s nuclear programme is real enough — and the perception that Pakistan may be helping them to make more money to evade international sanctions will further damage Pakistan’s stock here,” the source said.

Another source said that there could be one redeeming factor for Pakistan, the pipeline extending to India. “The two countries will have enough weight to withstand the criticism but this seems unlikely in the near future,” the source added.

Meanwhile, in a new report on Pakistan’s energy crisis, scholar Michael Kugelman notes that the US private sector also contributes to Pakistan’s energy sector, “including in overtly political ways”.

In his report for the Washington-based National Bureau of Asian Research, the author says that last summer, a US energy firm ConocoPhillips mediated talks between Pakistan and Qatar on a potential natural gas deal in an effort to discourage Islamabad from pursuing a pipeline project with Iran, the report added.

The Obama administration identifies energy as a priority area in its civilian assistance programme to the country, and Congress released nearly $300 million in new energy aid last summer alone.

But Mr Kugelman said given that the extent of Pakistan’s energy woes far exceeded the value of Washington’s $1.5 billion in total annual civil assistance “it is folly to expect US energy aid to make a major dent in the crisis”.

The author notes that Pakistan’s circular debt is now at its highest point of nearly $4.5 billion.

‘Gas pipeline dispute may not lead to US aid cut-off’ | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

 

[graphican]

A population that has been paying 0-20% tax won't suddenly cough up 20-30% tax; the whole economy would go upside down.

You are right .. things don't change over night. When I had come to Australia I had learned what is meaning of state caring its citizens. Here they start paying you if you are jobless or had pragnency or injury which kept you home for some time. We don't expect Government to be that caring in Pakistan and thus we don't pay 20-30% which is needed here. If I tell you story of my own brother, he had to pay 1% tax on export and he was thinking should I pay that or not.

Have you ever seen leaking in gas or plumbing pipes.. those are tiny holes but they destroy your whole systems. We need to fill those tiny-holes which cause leakage and things will start improving. After all countrymen are paying 15.6% Sales Tax.. if you stopped tax-leakage, your countrymen will eventually start paying taxes. But it is going to be gradual and I have hope it can be done. We as a country are poorly managed country but not poor by resources, mind or capabilities. Zara nam ho to ye matti bari zerhaiz hai saqi.

 

[Developereo]

You are right .. things don't change over night. When I had come to Australia I had learned what is meaning of state caring its citizens. Here they start paying you if you are jobless or had pragnency or injury which kept you home for some time. We don't expect Government to be that caring in Pakistan and thus we don't pay 20-30% which is needed here. If I tell you story of my own brother, he had to pay 1% tax on export and he was thinking should I pay that or not.

The 20-30% income tax figure is for most developed countries, from ones with wide social safety nets to those without. It is simply the amount needed to fund proper infrastructure, schools, hospitals, military, law enforcement, everything. It is the amount needed to pay middle class salaries to public employees (including police), so they don't have to "supplement" their income with bribes.

There is no magic bullet: you pay these taxes, you get the benefits; you don't pay, you get zip.

Have you ever seen leaking in gas or plumbing pipes.. those are tiny holes but they destroy your whole systems. We need to fill those tiny-holes which cause leakage and things will start improving. After all countrymen are paying 15.6% Sales Tax.. if you stopped tax-leakage, your countrymen will eventually start paying taxes. But it is going to be gradual and I have hope it can be done. We as a country are poorly managed country but not poor by resources, mind or capabilities. Zara nam ho to ye matti bari zerhaiz hai saqi.

The problem in Pakistan is not small leaks -- there are wide gaping holes and there is no pipeline at all for most of the route. 1% of the population pays taxes; there is no tax under 400K income and the tax rates are a joke compared to developed countries. What's worse is that Pakistan relies heavily on sales (consumption) tax which hits poor people worse than richer people. The whole system is designed by tax thieves, for tax thieves.

Granted people are reluctant to pay taxes because of all the corruption but, if Imran Khan comes to power and eliminates major corruption, will Pakistanis start paying 20-30% tax? I seriously doubt it.

I fully accept that there are honest people who would, and even a large percent will pay a one-time donation to clear the national debt, but what happens year after year? We are talking about ongoing taxation at levels which can support the governance I mentioned above.

20-30% income ongoing tax rate in Pakistan? any takers?

 

[graphican]

Granted people are reluctant to pay taxes because of all the corruption but, if Imran Khan comes to power and eliminates major corruption, will Pakistanis start paying 20-30% tax? I seriously doubt it.

Somebody had asked Mr. Jinnah that will Pakistan be a Nation in 50 years, Mr. Jinnah replied no they would need 100 and I think he was right. We are a loosely defined Nation.. have lots of issues, education, management, corruption, and in the list of probebly 20 broad terms, income-tax as well.

Technically we don't have difference of opinions, you are saying Pakistan wouldn't jump to 20-30% tax and I am saying they can start paying 10-15% with little effort. 20-30% of European and Australian taxes took their time to setup.

I also have another opinion that Pakistan, India, China and other overly populated countries cannot be as disciplined Nations as country that are under-populated but good at resources. Honestly I don't see Pakistan turning into England or Australia ever unless its population becomes as manageable as that of European countries but still we are not sheep or goats.. when when I keep my expectations and standards rational and comparably low, I don't refuse the possibility of Pakistan turning into 3-4 or perhaps 10 times better than it is now. Education and Good Education makes a Nation and its a long journey for any-country.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Somebody had asked Mr. Jinnah that will Pakistan be a Nation in 50 years, Mr. Jinnah replied no they would need 100 and I think he was right. We are a loosely defined Nation.. have lots of issues, education, management, corruption, and in the list of probebly 20 broad terms, income-tax as well.

Technically we don't have difference of opinions, you are saying Pakistan wouldn't jump to 20-30% tax and I am saying they can start paying 10-15% with little effort. 20-30% of European and Australian taxes took their time to setup.

I also have another opinion that Pakistan, India, China and other overly populated countries cannot be as disciplined Nations as country that are under-populated but good at resources. Honestly I don't see Pakistan turning into England or Australia ever unless its population becomes as manageable as that of European countries but still we are not sheep or goats.. when when I keep my expectations and standards rational and comparably low, I don't refuse the possibility of Pakistan turning into 3-4 or perhaps 10 times better than it is now. Education and Good Education makes a Nation and its a long journey for any-country.

well thats sums all mr jinnah himself knew that he had created a frenkesitine monster when he asked for a sepprate nation on basis of relegeon and after watching lacks of hindus and muslims killed and millions displaced he knew what he did was not required but thats a diff story what followed after independence in first few years wrote the destiny india and china both got independence within 2-3 years but they chose the hard and long path to sucsess in case of china they manged it but india is still struglling but had reached some of the goals but pakistan not onli remains the same but has deteroted and that was what jinnah was feeling looking at then hope pakisatni friends dont take my point in a diff. perspective ..Thanks

 

[Developereo]

Technically we don't have difference of opinions, you are saying Pakistan wouldn't jump to 20-30% tax and I am saying they can start paying 10-15% with little effort.

I hope you are right. If Imran Khan, or anyone else, can restore people's faith that their tax dollars will be well spent, then I can see that Pakistanis would approve higher tax rates over time.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I hope you are right. If Imran Khan, or anyone else, can restore people's faith that their tax dollars will be well spent, then I can see that Pakistanis would approve higher tax rates over time.

but sir do you realli thinkthat the feudals and beorocrats / Army generals will take it ...i dont think so

 

[Developereo]

but sir do you realli thinkthat the feudals and beorocrats / Army generals will take it ...i dont think so

The army generals won't care as long as they get the same budget (or more). In fact, without the need to sell sovereignty in exchange for "aid", Pakistan's foreign policy options will improve which will favor the army.

As for the corrupt elite, they won't like it a bit which is why it is a challenge for anyone who promises reform, including Imran Khan. All we can do is wait and see.