Pictures & Video of the Three Z-10 Helicopters to Pakistan - updated

[SQ8]

They can give it to Afghan army they'll give more valuable data to them then us??

Do they trust the Afghans as much as us? Please be intelligent when trying to come with retorts.

 

[That Guy]

That all being well and emotional. The poster has a point which you folks are too charged up to see.
Let me demonstrate.
See this thing.

In the same place there was this
RF-5800H-MP HF Manpack Radio | Harris RF Communications | Tactical Radios

and this as a test subject too
Military Communication Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

The first one was made by ordering components from Chinese factories using blueprints made in house.
The second one also had local blueprints but had components fabricated elsewhere,
The third is all US.

However, only one of them never shorted or had any major fault. That was not number 1 or number 2. It was number 3.

Only of them regularly had quality issues, it was not number 2 or 3.

The Chinese components regularly had faults and did not perform to specifications despite various visits by their factory heads themselves. It was only after rigorous QC did number 1 sort of start to work and its electronic boards did not have regular problems.

Funny thing, there was a chip in all three of American design and origin but manufactured in China which RARELY had faults. Clearly, there was serious problems in what the Chinese thought was quality and standard as to what the Americans were forcing them to stick to.

The fault did not lay with the Chinese engineers and workers, it lay with standards and expectations put on them. Which once they learnt were able to build just as good as the American equipement. Similarly, When the F-7P first arrived in Pakistan, it was REJECTED by the PAF and sent for various modifications in China.. these modification were adopted by the Chinese themselves who later improved upon them themselves.

On the other hand, quality issues have also existed in Pakistan. When the First F-6s were being serviced in Pakistan, many were lost due to an error made by Pakistanis who were fitting a component in reverse!.

As the Z-10 will go into combat, it will take input from real world usage and quality. Its weapons will be tested much more thoroughly, it will fly a lot more regularly and face a hostile environment.. and faults will happen. These faults will be reported back to the Chinese so that they can improve their product and make it better. So when that product also goes to the PLA, they will have real world inputs going into a much more improved system for their forces.

It has nothing to do with Chinese Engineering being bad, but with the basic idea that no-one(not even the Americans) gets it right the first time. Trial and Error is how good machines are built.

@atlantis_cn

What @Oscar said. Stop being so emotional over this. I did not insult China.

I know it man.


Calm them, just leave him alone. There are many other Pakistani friends in this forum, you don't have to care some nonsense post that much.

It would be hypocritical of me to say that I never get emotional over little things. Thanks for the support, even if you disagree with me.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

All of them are W10 type, Pa won't interested in WZ19 light/scout heli.

That's what I know but people argue just to keep their leg up.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

They can give it to Afghan army they'll give more valuable data to them then us??

:/ Afghan Army ??? Bhai PA is one of the worlds 7th army with experience of world graded weapons. And right now we are in a situation where we can use it and juice out the thing ... What ANA would do with it ???

 

[Orakzai]

Do they trust the Afghans as much as us? Please be intelligent when trying to come with retorts.

Yeah and that is exactly what i am trying to point it to you. Trust is the main reason why they gave it to us. For gathering data they could give it to anyone.

 

[cabatli_53]

That all being well and emotional. The poster has a point which you folks are too charged up to see.
Let me demonstrate.
See this thing.

In the same place there was this
RF-5800H-MP HF Manpack Radio | Harris RF Communications | Tactical Radios

and this as a test subject too
Military Communication Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

The first one was made by ordering components from Chinese factories using blueprints made in house.
The second one also had local blueprints but had components fabricated elsewhere,
The third is all US.

However, only one of them never shorted or had any major fault. That was not number 1 or number 2. It was number 3.

Only of them regularly had quality issues, it was not number 2 or 3.

The Chinese components regularly had faults and did not perform to specifications despite various visits by their factory heads themselves. It was only after rigorous QC did number 1 sort of start to work and its electronic boards did not have regular problems.

Funny thing, there was a chip in all three of American design and origin but manufactured in China which RARELY had faults. Clearly, there was serious problems in what the Chinese thought was quality and standard as to what the Americans were forcing them to stick to.

The fault did not lay with the Chinese engineers and workers, it lay with standards and expectations put on them. Which once they learnt were able to build just as good as the American equipement. Similarly, When the F-7P first arrived in Pakistan, it was REJECTED by the PAF and sent for various modifications in China.. these modification were adopted by the Chinese themselves who later improved upon them themselves.

On the other hand, quality issues have also existed in Pakistan. When the First F-6s were being serviced in Pakistan, many were lost due to an error made by Pakistanis who were fitting a component in reverse!.

As the Z-10 will go into combat, it will take input from real world usage and quality. Its weapons will be tested much more thoroughly, it will fly a lot more regularly and face a hostile environment.. and faults will happen. These faults will be reported back to the Chinese so that they can improve their product and make it better. So when that product also goes to the PLA, they will have real world inputs going into a much more improved system for their forces.

It has nothing to do with Chinese Engineering being bad, but with the basic idea that no-one(not even the Americans) gets it right the first time. Trial and Error is how good machines are built.

Bro, What was the reason of testing three military software defined V/UHF radioes ?

The radio seen on third place are the one Aselsan developed for Turkish military requirements and Aselsan developed PRC/VRC-9661 software based multi-band radio and Some electronic warfare sensor technologies (Some disclosed components of one of Aselsan HEWS (Helicopters) or SPEWS-2(Aircrafts)) are transfered to Pakistan with an agreement worth 204 million $ in 2010 and I believe Pakistan is producing those radioes at home at present.

 

[SQ8]

Bro, What was the reason of testing three military software defined V/UHF radioes ?

The radio seen on third place are the one Aselsan developed for Turkish military requirements and Aselsan developed PRC/VRC-9661 software based multi-band radio and Some electronic warfare sensor technologies (Some disclosed components of one of Aselsan HEWS (Helicopters) or SPEWS-2(Aircrafts)) are transfered to Pakistan with an agreement worth 204 million $ in 2010 and I believe Pakistan is producing those radioes at home at present.

One was being made as a product in-house, one was purchased in the initial years of WoT.. one was modified in house specific to PA requirements.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

But in the end it doesn't mean that China would simply give away 3 of its Helis to a country just for a testing purposes??? or to get a combat data from that country? I take this as an insult to them too. we should Be thankful to them shouldn't we be?

No they would and so would any other country provided that the country being given is an allies and it has the required knowledge and experts who could add to its capability. This has been done in the past Royal Air Force designed the tail of F-86 so that it would become supersonic. The B-2 was tested in the wet and cold British climate where it was detected that its stealth features were compromised when the RAF were able to detect moisture that was present on the surface of these B-2's.

Secondly it is simple economics. If you give a gift you are going to get a better or equal gift. This is also known as Opportunity Cost.

Z-10's have gone through vigorous and extreme testing in controlled environment in China firstly during the development phase and then the China Army evaluation and induction process.

Now Pakistan Army would test these Z-10 in Uncontrolled Environment (WAR) which would give the actual picture of its performance along with the tactics, which is a highly valuable reason.

So my friend hope this would satisfy your questions and one more thing there is no insult if some one who cares tells your weakness.

 

[Aditi Acharya]

I love pakistan

 

[Super Falcon]

Looks awesome I like desert camp on it what about weapons of Z 10

 

[atlantis_cn]

No they would and so would any other country provided that the country being given is an allies and it has the required knowledge and experts who could add to its capability. This has been done in the past Royal Air Force designed the tail of F-86 so that it would become supersonic. The B-2 was tested in the wet and cold British climate where it was detected that its stealth features were compromised when the RAF were able to detect moisture that was present on the surface of these B-2's.

Secondly it is simple economics. If you give a gift you are going to get a better or equal gift. This is also known as Opportunity Cost.

Z-10's have gone through vigorous and extreme testing in controlled environment in China firstly during the development phase and then the China Army evaluation and induction process.

Now Pakistan Army would test these Z-10 in Uncontrolled Environment (WAR) which would give the actual picture of its performance along with the tactics, which is a highly valuable reason.

So my friend hope this would satisfy your questions and one more thing there is no insult if some one who cares tells your weakness.

Take the bullshit to yourself. Are you suggesting that China should send every kind of its equipment 3 free samples to Pakistan to get tested and improved and then feel indebted?

I'm sorry to break your dream but the truth is: Pakistan do not has the required knowledge and experts yet and be sure not to compare PAF with Royal Air Force.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Take the bullshit to yourself. Are you suggesting that China should send every kind of its equipment 3 free samples to Pakistan to get tested and improved and then feel indebted?

I'm sorry to break your dream but the truth is: Pakistan do not has the required knowledge and experts yet and be sure not to compare PAF with Royal Air Force.

Read thoroughly what's below and PAF is no doubt a force with more Experience then PLAAF...
That all being well and emotional. The poster has a point which you folks are too charged up to see.
Let me demonstrate.
See this thing.

In the same place there was this
RF-5800H-MP HF Manpack Radio | Harris RF Communications | Tactical Radios

and this as a test subject too
Military Communication Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

The first one was made by ordering components from Chinese factories using blueprints made in house.
The second one also had local blueprints but had components fabricated elsewhere,
The third is all US.

However, only one of them never shorted or had any major fault. That was not number 1 or number 2. It was number 3.

Only of them regularly had quality issues, it was not number 2 or 3.

The Chinese components regularly had faults and did not perform to specifications despite various visits by their factory heads themselves. It was only after rigorous QC did number 1 sort of start to work and its electronic boards did not have regular problems.

Funny thing, there was a chip in all three of American design and origin but manufactured in China which RARELY had faults. Clearly, there was serious problems in what the Chinese thought was quality and standard as to what the Americans were forcing them to stick to.

The fault did not lay with the Chinese engineers and workers, it lay with standards and expectations put on them. Which once they learnt were able to build just as good as the American equipement. Similarly, When the F-7P first arrived in Pakistan, it was REJECTED by the PAF and sent for various modifications in China.. these modification were adopted by the Chinese themselves who later improved upon them themselves.

On the other hand, quality issues have also existed in Pakistan. When the First F-6s were being serviced in Pakistan, many were lost due to an error made by Pakistanis who were fitting a component in reverse!.

As the Z-10 will go into combat, it will take input from real world usage and quality. Its weapons will be tested much more thoroughly, it will fly a lot more regularly and face a hostile environment.. and faults will happen. These faults will be reported back to the Chinese so that they can improve their product and make it better. So when that product also goes to the PLA, they will have real world inputs going into a much more improved system for their forces.

It has nothing to do with Chinese Engineering being bad, but with the basic idea that no-one(not even the Americans) gets it right the first time. Trial and Error is how good machines are built.