What's new

PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

There are a lot of errors in your post. Sorry!!

If you hear the ATC recording, there are chimes that indicate "gear unsafe". Basically gear extended but did not lock. Skid marks on engine indicate the nose gear was not locked (aircraft was nose down). Also, RAT has no relation to landing gear. It is auto deployed when both engines are shut.

I thought about this possibility for a while but I don't think its the case. If gear collapsed, then there is no way on earth that it could have retracted back into the gear hold in such a clean way that is seen in the picture. Look at what happened on BA38 when gear collapsed, it ripped into the wing. If gear collapsed, it would've gone through wing which we can tell did not happen by looking at pic. So that rules out locking problem on gear.

Belly landing is also not possible because in the pic, plane only has damage on the engines, a belly landing would have damage on tail area as well.

Pilots forgetting to extend the gear in the first place is also unlikely as there are too many alarms for somebody to forget to extend it.

The one possibility I can think of that solves everything is that pilots were coming in too fast too high on an unstable approach. One of the most common ways to slow down quickly during approach is to drop the gear earlier to create more drag. But there is a restriction on how fast you can go before deploying the gear. If you are going too fast to safely extend the landing gear, you get an audible warning "gear unsafe" in the cockpit. So it does not have to be a problem with landing gear itself, it could be that they were going too fast to extend it. A too fast too high approach would also explain an unstable landing and hard bounce that would later need to be aborted.

On other points, skid marks on engine don't indicate anything about nose gear so that is irrelevant.

RAT does have relation to both landing gear and engines actually. Normally, engines provide power to hydraulics which powers landing gear. But if there is a dual engine failure, RAT replaces engines as power source for hydraulics. In this RAT is useless as well because hydraulic fluid is leaking out from the same place that oil is leaking out which shut down the engines in the first place. If that scrape on the bottom of the engine didn't happen, RAT would have worked as the hydraulic fluid would not be leaking out and RAT would have been able to power the hydraulics. But in that situation, the engines would also be working and then RAT would not even be needed since the oil would not be leaking causing engines to overheat and triggering automatic shutdown since oil and hydraulics are both leaking from the same scraped area.

Do you have picture of landing gear opening before first landing attempt ? .... just curious to know if he requested for belly landing on first call or second call ...

I do not think there was any belly landing, that would have caused way more damage to underside than we see in that picture. But there was a brief scrape of engines after bounce gear retraction when airplane sank to contact ground before TOGA thrust kicked in.

Please do not try to be someone you are not.
You are not a pilot or an air accident investigator.

The correct call out for a standard go around is same as take off. Gears then flaps then slats. This aircraft had already done 2 missisd approaches. One of them indicates that the Engines touched the goudt at 4700 and 5000 ft down the line. The Pilots might have thought they could not stop in time hence initiated go around. 25L is 10000 ft only so touching half way down could have ment this aircraft would have hit lights and other equiptment at the end of the runway.

Even if it is gear then flaps, you are still supposed to wait until positive rate to retract the gear. I could definitely see a situation where pilot aborted an unstable landing and was waiting for positive rate to retract gear and thought the bounce or float was positive rate and retracted gear prematurely. If TOGA thrust took a moment to kick in after gear was retracted, it's enough time for plane to sink back down when engines scraped the runway at 4700 and 5000ft. I wonder if its possible that they retracted gear before hitting TOGA thrust by mistake. The pilots would have probably have decided to abort after the first hard bounce from unstable landing and then retracted the gear as part of procedure but in the wrong sequence. A long float down the runway would suggest they hesitated or delayed to apply TOGA thrust for a few seconds even though they had already retracted the gear which essentially means they already committed to going around. Retracting gear before applying TOGA is a huge mistake and I doubt they would've made this mistake. In my opinion it is more likely that they applied TOGA first and then retracted gear but TOGA took a moment to spool up and plane sank down to ground and engines made contact with runway after gear retracted but before TOGA fully spooled up. Whole situation could have been avoided if they just waited a few more seconds for TOGA to fully spool before retracting gear so that engine doesn't scrape and get damaged. Then it would've been a normal go around and plane would've landed safely.
 
Last edited:
. . .
Also, RAT has no relation to landing gear. It is auto deployed when both engines are shut.
RAT is suppose to give secondary power to perform basic flight operations.. including deployment of Landing gear... ofcourse in case both engine fails..
 
.
Why was plane allowed to take off when it belly landed first time? The pictures plane spotters took in Karachi clearly show engine nacelles badly damaged and RAT deployed. RAT means there was power failure which is natural as engines had failed due to damage.

This is the view by an Airbus expert on this crash

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAhhntMJ7jN/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Also look at badly damaged engine nacelles. This points out to landing gear failure. But the bigger failure it seems is ATC's fault. I m not making any judgements. Just observations.

PIA_AB.jpg
 
. . . . . .
View attachment 635107
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632693-pia-a320-crash-karachi-12.html


This is what i am going with until the offical investigation is released sometime in the next decade..
Wow,
Wealth of knowledge on that website.
Seems like TOGA error to be blamed.
Pilot initially approaching too fast for landing and had to abort but didn't push TOGA switch.
As a result engines spooled slowly and plane dipped enough for the engines to scrape on the runway, and then went full throttle to get airborne.
The guys saying that although pilots are trained in simulators for touch and go , it is one of the maneuvers where pilot are highly likely to make errors.
 
.
Gear can be deployed at cruising speeds..

Lowering the gear at anything over 250 kts during a rapid decent can cause structural gear damage or landing gear fault. In some instances Airbus aircraft have a safety lock which stops the gear being deployed if the speed is too high.

Highly unlikely.. its like driving a car without releasing the hand brake you get warnings..

We can hear the gear alarm sounding loud and clear in the ATC communications, so it is a possibility it wasn't deployed/properly deployed during approach.
 
Last edited:
.
Saturday update


View attachment 635107
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/632693-pia-a320-crash-karachi-12.html


This is what i am going with until the offical investigation is released sometime in the next decade..

Next decade? Well change it to 'never'. CAA does not have competence to investigate air crash. Its a corrupt body full of PPP and MQM types. Also there had been two previous air crashes in last decade in Pakistan. No report that at leat I have seen was comprehensive and I dont recall if any safety procedures were changed. One crash in 2009 of Air Blue 320 and other of PIA ATR in Dec 2016 which killed Junaid Jamshed.
 
.
i know many people who buy houses and property here on basis of money received in remittance from foreign countries,generally people involved in corruption launder money to foreign countries as they have fear that one day they face accountability if their corruption is exposed and also these people want to avail luxuries and good quality of life in foreign countries instead of living in Pakistan
I think its very wrong to assume that this is foreign money its mostly bribes , un taxed incomes , criminals etc etc all kinds of black dirty money which is invested in real estate projects
 
. .

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom