What's new

PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

Nose gear was not down and locked.

Most likely the pilot kept pulling the nose up and bringing it down thinking that the nose gear would hold, but did not. That is when he decided to do the go around again.

He could have held the nose up all the way till the aircraft came to a stop and then lowered the nose. Aircraft would be damaged, but everyone would have survived. However, that is hindsight.
What would pilot land without front landing gear?
Then why would pilot abort after the plane has already scraped the runway and sustained damage?
Both engines sustained damage and that caused the crash
 
For a 2nd attempt at Landing but unfortunately as pointed out by other members as well it seems during 1st attempt both engines skid the runway causing massive damage & later hydraulic failure as well.

Okay, I agree He went for a second landing attempt and let us not doubt his intention, no would want to die in a Fast on a Mubarak Jummah along with 90-100+ passengers obviously. But I have a few questions/thoughts in mind:

If the landing gear wasn't working/opened why did he came to the runway for the first attempt because the belly landing conversation happened after he took left and uplifted the plane?

Either the ATC told him to come to the runaway or there is something mysterious.

Secondly, If he was coming to the runaway for belly landing for the first time the SOP is that the Pilot should waste all the possible extra fuel which is in the tank so that there is very little possibility of engine catching fire. But, we all know there was huge fuel present inside the tank so knowing the fact why did pilot came so low to the runaway that first the left engine strikes the ground and then the right engine strikes and then both strikes the ground at the same time which that person in the video was talking about "Teen jhatkay lagay".

If he wanted a go-round he should have been at some altitude and not exactly just above the runaway.

My gut feeling is ATC might have told him that the landing gear is opened without paying much attention which leads him to take the decision to lower the plane and the speed but as soon as left side strikes he got to know that the landing gear is still not opened and he also might have known the fact that the fuel is in access which could burn the entire plane in seconds and there is the conversation then:

ATC: Appears to be turning left

and I think that the audio should also be sent for forensic as I smell something fishy!


These are my questions and an assumption baqi Allah Pak knows the best among us, and is mein bohat behtari the "ALLAH Pak chahtay thay kay all those who departed should be there with HIM/infront of HIM at the 29th Taak Raat (Possible Laylatul Qadr)

May the departed souls rest in peace, Ameen Sum Ameen Ya Rab-ul-Alaameen
 
CAA-- air side dept, today...23/05/2020 did inspection of runway, they found skids of engine, at 5500m. and also 6500 m
2 times, --------- run way is about 1100m.
so the plane tried to belly land 2 times already, but its belly didnt touch ground?
while 3rd attempt was fatal..
Do you have any link or source of this news?
 
Here is my revised new theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt

2. There are no mechanical problems of any kind, no landing gear issue, no engine issue, no hydraulics issue, no mechanical issue of any kind before 1st landing attempt.

3. Pilots are coming in too fast and too high resulting in an unstable approach that will later require a go around. Basically the approach is rushed.

4. Pilots put gear down during landing approach. Gear comes down as normal, no problems with landing gear.

5. Unstable approach causes plane to make a hard bounce on runway. One of the survivors said the plane bounced into the air on landing followed by hard friction with sparks and smoke.

6. When the plane bounced into the air, the pilots set TOGA thrust and accidentally selected gear up first instead of flaps up. Normally you are supposed to select flaps up first and then gear up so you have time to clear the runway before retracting gear.

7. Pilots mistakenly selected gear up too early during bounce, plane momentarily sinks and engines make contact with the runway with gear retracted before TOGA thrust kicks in. Pilots should have retracted the gear a few seconds later after plane had safely aborted and cleared the runway. Basically they retracted gear too early when aborting a bounced landing causing engine to scrape the runway with gear retracted.

8. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks

9. Pilot immediately goes around

10. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt

11. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings

12. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.

13. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.

14. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.

15. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.

16. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.

17. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

Some observations:

1. This incident is identical to Smartlynx A320 incident in Estonia, that plane almost crashed too. Pilot saved it because he knew he had very little time to make it back to runway. Once engine scrapes runway, oil and hydraulic fluid immediately start leaking out of the bottom of the engine. Basically when engine scrapes, leakage of critical fluid starts as hydraulic fluid and oil run out in around 5 minutes. So basically you have countdown timer of 5 minutes after the engines scrape and pilot aborts to save the airplane and make it back to the runway. PIA took long route to circle back to 25L and did not make it back to runway before 5 minutes, hence hydraulic fluid and oil ran out and caused dual engine shutdown near where CCTV video was recorded just as he was on short final at last minute and he crashed before runway. I read the safety report of the Smartlynx accident. Smartlynx problem had almost identical situation to PIA after scraping engines and aborting, but pilot of Smartlynx plane knew they had only 5 minutes to make it back to runway before hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, so instead of making a long full 360 circle back to runway like PIA, they made 180 turn to do an emergency opposite direction approach and safely landed with plane intact. At Karachi, if PIA had made 180 turn to approach Runway 7R from opposite direction, it would probably have landed safely.

2. An early gear retraction during abort when plane briefly sank and engines scraped runway before TOGA thrust kicked in and plane starting climbing again explains how the plane could have contacted the runway with gear up. It simply is not possible to approach the runway and forget to extend landing gear. There are too many alarms reminding them, pilots would never have made this mistake. However, if they aborted after a hard bounce and retracted gear too early before TOGA thrust kicked in, there would not have been any alarm for this. When plane sank to contact runway after bounce before TOGA thrust spooled up, engines scraped the runway while gear was prematurely retracted.

I was reading accident report of Smartlynx incident in Estonia which is very similar to PIA. There are some differences in steps 1-10, Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice and has a software issue, PIA is different because it was completely normal with no issues before 1st landing. But from step 11 to the end, it is exact same situation for both PIA and Smartlynx when both pilots select TOGA, retract gear, plane sinks, engine scrapes, and the rest all the way to the end.

PIA flight could have been saved if they followed what pilots did in Smartlynx incident:

In Smartlynx accident:
  1. Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice training flights
  2. During training flight, Smartlynx has normal landing
  3. Smartlynx plane has incorrect software setting
  4. Pilot cannot get plane to increase thrust at all after touchdown, plane does not respond to pilot’s command inputs to raise nose to takeoff again because of incorrect software setting
  5. Captain takes full control from other pilot
  6. TOGA thrust does not work at all, no response from plane
  7. Captain quickly decides to use trim to chance pitch to get airborne as he is running out of runway and TOGA is not working because of software glitch.
  8. Plane briefly lifts off ground and gear retraction is selected too early
  9. Plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear is in process of being retracted, doors have not yet closed.
  10. When plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear doors which have not fully closed are ripped off and engines scrape the ground.
  11. ********PIA SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE STEPS THAT SMARTLYNX DID BELOW********
  12. Smartlynx gets airborne and realizes that they must return to airport IMMEDIATELY because their hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking after engine scraped ground and they must make it back to airport before all hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, otherwise their engines will both shut down. Smartlynx tries to make it back to airport as quickly as possible as they only have 5 minutes before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil runs out which will trigger engine overheat and shutdown.
  13. Smartlynx immediately starts making a rapid 180 emergency turn to land on same runway from opposite direction (PIA’s mistake was fatal error that they took long route and did a 360 back to 25L, PIA did not have enough time for this, they only had 5 minutes because of leaking fluid)
  14. After Smartlynx makes 180 turn back to land on runway from opposite direction, both engines shutdown midair as all oil runs out, hydraulic fluid also runs out and disables flaps.
  15. Smartlynx glides to runway and barely lands at the airport hitting the runway lights, but plane is intact and everyone survives.
PIA and Smartlynx flight both only had 5 minutes to make it back to runway since both scraped engine on ground and started rapidly leaking hydraulic fluid and oil from bottom of the engine. Both engines shut down while flying in PIA and Smartlynx when oil ran out. The big difference why Smartlynx safely glided to runway in emergency landing while PIA crashed is that in both PIA and Smartlynx, the hydraulic fluid and oil takes the same amount of time to leak, the plane only has 5 minutes to make it back to runway before fluids run out from leakage. Smartlynx decided to do very fast and quick emergency 180 turn back to runway from opposite direction which took less than 5 minutes. PIA decided to do 360 circle back to 25L which took more than 5 minutes. Both engines shutdown in PIA and Smartlynx, but since Smartlynx 180 turn took less time, it was much closer to the runway when its engines shutdown than PIA which farther away from runway when its engines shutdown because PIA was doing a longer 360 circle. In the 5 minutes, before hydraulic fluids and oil ran out, both PIA and Smartlynx had the same amount of time, 5 minutes. Smartlynx 180 turn back took less time than PIA’s 360 turn so Smartlynx got closer to the runway before dual engine failure and was able to glide almost all the way to the airport where they hit the runway lights. Everyone on Smartlynx survived and Smartlynx plane was intact. PIA 360 circle to 25L took too long and they ran out of 5 minute window, when their oil ran out and both engines shut down, they were not close enough to the runway to do a glide all the way like Smartlynx and crashed during the glide at Model Colony.

Smartlynx accident report below:

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/report-download.php?id=683

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety...ursed-home-after-runway-strike/135161.article

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/smartlynx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san/

smartlinx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san-.jpg
 
Last edited:
Here is my revised new theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt

2. There are no mechanical problems of any kind, no landing gear issue, no engine issue, no hydraulics issue, no mechanical issue of any kind before 1st landing attempt.

3. Pilots are coming in too fast and too high resulting in an unstable approach that will later require a go around. Basically the approach is rushed.

4. Pilots put gear down during landing approach. Gear comes down as normal, no problems with landing gear.

5. Unstable approach causes plane to make a hard bounce on runway. One of the survivors said the plane bounced into the air on landing followed by hard friction with sparks and smoke.

6. When the plane bounced into the air, the pilots set TOGA thrust and accidentally selected gear up first instead of flaps up. Normally you are supposed to select flaps up first and then gear up so you have time to clear the runway before retracting gear.

7. Pilots mistakenly selected gear up too early during bounce, plane momentarily sinks and engines make contact with the runway with gear retracted before TOGA thrust kicks in. Pilots should have retracted the gear a few seconds later after plane had safely aborted and cleared the runway. Basically they retracted gear too early when aborting a bounced landing causing engine to scrape the runway with gear retracted.

8. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks

9. Pilot immediately goes around

10. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt

11. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings

12. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.

13. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.

14. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.

15. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.

16. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.

17. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

Some observations:

1. This incident is identical to Smartlynx A320 incident in Estonia, that plane almost crashed too. Pilot saved it because he knew he had very little time to make it back to runway. Once engine scrapes runway, oil and hydraulic fluid immediately start leaking out of the bottom of the engine. Basically when engine scrapes, leakage of critical fluid starts as hydraulic fluid and oil run out in around 5 minutes. So basically you have countdown timer of 5 minutes after the engines scrape and pilot aborts to save the airplane and make it back to the runway. PIA took long route to circle back to 25L and did not make it back to runway before 5 minutes, hence hydraulic fluid and oil ran out and caused dual engine shutdown near where CCTV video was recorded just as he was on short final at last minute and he crashed before runway. I read the safety report of the Smartlynx accident. Smartlynx problem had almost identical situation to PIA after scraping engines and aborting, but pilot of Smartlynx plane knew they had only 5 minutes to make it back to runway before hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, so instead of making a long full 360 circle back to runway like PIA, they made 180 turn to do an emergency opposite direction approach and safely landed with plane intact. At Karachi, if PIA had made 180 turn to approach Runway 7R from opposite direction, it would probably have landed safely.

2. An early gear retraction during abort when plane briefly sank and engines scraped runway before TOGA thrust kicked in and plane starting climbing again explains how the plane could have contacted the runway with gear up. It simply is not possible to approach the runway and forget to extend landing gear. There are too many alarms reminding them, pilots would never have made this mistake. However, if they aborted after a hard bounce and retracted gear too early before TOGA thrust kicked in, there would not have been any alarm for this. When plane sank to contact runway after bounce before TOGA thrust spooled up, engines scraped the runway while gear was prematurely retracted.

I was reading accident report of Smartlynx incident in Estonia which is very similar to PIA. There are some differences in steps 1-10, Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice and has a software issue, PIA is different because it was completely normal with no issues before 1st landing. But from step 11 to the end, it is exact same situation for both PIA and Smartlynx when both pilots select TOGA, retract gear, plane sinks, engine scrapes, and the rest all the way to the end.

PIA flight could have been saved if they followed what pilots did in Smartlynx incident:

In Smartlynx accident:
  1. Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice training flights
  2. During training flight, Smartlynx has normal landing
  3. Smartlynx plane has incorrect software setting
  4. Pilot cannot get plane to increase thrust at all after touchdown, plane does not respond to pilot’s command inputs to raise nose to takeoff again because of incorrect software setting
  5. Captain takes full control from other pilot
  6. TOGA thrust does not work at all, no response from plane
  7. Captain quickly decides to use trim to chance pitch to get airborne as he is running out of runway and TOGA is not working because of software glitch.
  8. Plane briefly lifts off ground and gear retraction is selected too early
  9. Plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear is in process of being retracted, doors have not yet closed.
  10. When plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear doors which have not fully closed are ripped off and engines scrape the ground.
  11. ********PIA SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE STEPS THAT SMARTLYNX DID BELOW********
  12. Smartlynx gets airborne and realizes that they must return to airport IMMEDIATELY because their hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking after engine scraped ground and they must make it back to airport before all hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, otherwise their engines will both shut down. Smartlynx tries to make it back to airport as quickly as possible as they only have 5 minutes before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil runs out which will trigger engine overheat and shutdown.
  13. Smartlynx immediately starts making a rapid 180 emergency turn to land on same runway from opposite direction (PIA’s mistake was fatal error that they took long route and did a 360 back to 25L, PIA did not have enough time for this, they only had 5 minutes because of leaking fluid)
  14. After Smartlynx makes 180 turn back to land on runway from opposite direction, both engines shutdown midair as all oil runs out, hydraulic fluid also runs out and disables flaps.
  15. Smartlynx glides to runway and barely lands at the airport hitting the runway lights, but plane is intact and everyone survives.
PIA and Smartlynx flight both only had 5 minutes to make it back to runway since both scraped engine on ground and started rapidly leaking hydraulic fluid and oil from bottom of the engine. Both engines shut down while flying in PIA and Smartlynx when oil ran out. The big difference why Smartlynx safely glided to runway in emergency landing while PIA crashed is that in both PIA and Smartlynx, the hydraulic fluid and oil takes the same amount of time to leak, the plane only has 5 minutes to make it back to runway before fluids run out from leakage. Smartlynx decided to do very fast and quick emergency 180 turn back to runway from opposite direction which took less than 5 minutes. PIA decided to do 360 circle back to 25L which took more than 5 minutes. Both engines shutdown in PIA and Smartlynx, but since Smartlynx 180 turn took less time, it was much closer to the runway when its engines shutdown than PIA which farther away from runway when its engines shutdown because PIA was doing a longer 360 circle. In the 5 minutes, before hydraulic fluids and oil ran out, both PIA and Smartlynx had the same amount of time, 5 minutes. Smartlynx 180 turn back took less time than PIA’s 360 turn so Smartlynx got closer to the runway before dual engine failure and was able to glide almost all the way to the airport where they hit the runway lights. Everyone on Smartlynx survived and Smartlynx plane was intact. PIA 360 circle to 25L took too long and they ran out of 5 minute window, when their oil ran out and both engines shut down, they were not close enough to the runway to do a glide all the way like Smartlynx and crashed during the glide at Model Colony.

Smartlynx accident report below:

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/report-download.php?id=683

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety...ursed-home-after-runway-strike/135161.article

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/smartlynx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san/

smartlinx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san-.jpg


you should watch todays tv programme , very disturbings news about the pilots , misconduct, failure to follow procedure, emergency protocols,

http://www.unewstv.com/175548/muqabil-eid-ke-chaand-ka-masla-23rd-may-2020
 
Here is my revised new theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt

2. There are no mechanical problems of any kind, no landing gear issue, no engine issue, no hydraulics issue, no mechanical issue of any kind before 1st landing attempt.

3. Pilots are coming in too fast and too high resulting in an unstable approach that will later require a go around. Basically the approach is rushed.

4. Pilots put gear down during landing approach. Gear comes down as normal, no problems with landing gear.

5. Unstable approach causes plane to make a hard bounce on runway. One of the survivors said the plane bounced into the air on landing followed by hard friction with sparks and smoke.

6. When the plane bounced into the air, the pilots set TOGA thrust and accidentally selected gear up first instead of flaps up. Normally you are supposed to select flaps up first and then gear up so you have time to clear the runway before retracting gear.

7. Pilots mistakenly selected gear up too early during bounce, plane momentarily sinks and engines make contact with the runway with gear retracted before TOGA thrust kicks in. Pilots should have retracted the gear a few seconds later after plane had safely aborted and cleared the runway. Basically they retracted gear too early when aborting a bounced landing causing engine to scrape the runway with gear retracted.

8. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks

9. Pilot immediately goes around

10. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt

11. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings

12. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.

13. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.

14. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.

15. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.

16. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.

17. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

Some observations:

1. This incident is identical to Smartlynx A320 incident in Estonia, that plane almost crashed too. Pilot saved it because he knew he had very little time to make it back to runway. Once engine scrapes runway, oil and hydraulic fluid immediately start leaking out of the bottom of the engine. Basically when engine scrapes, leakage of critical fluid starts as hydraulic fluid and oil run out in around 5 minutes. So basically you have countdown timer of 5 minutes after the engines scrape and pilot aborts to save the airplane and make it back to the runway. PIA took long route to circle back to 25L and did not make it back to runway before 5 minutes, hence hydraulic fluid and oil ran out and caused dual engine shutdown near where CCTV video was recorded just as he was on short final at last minute and he crashed before runway. I read the safety report of the Smartlynx accident. Smartlynx problem had almost identical situation to PIA after scraping engines and aborting, but pilot of Smartlynx plane knew they had only 5 minutes to make it back to runway before hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, so instead of making a long full 360 circle back to runway like PIA, they made 180 turn to do an emergency opposite direction approach and safely landed with plane intact. At Karachi, if PIA had made 180 turn to approach Runway 7R from opposite direction, it would probably have landed safely.

2. An early gear retraction during abort when plane briefly sank and engines scraped runway before TOGA thrust kicked in and plane starting climbing again explains how the plane could have contacted the runway with gear up. It simply is not possible to approach the runway and forget to extend landing gear. There are too many alarms reminding them, pilots would never have made this mistake. However, if they aborted after a hard bounce and retracted gear too early before TOGA thrust kicked in, there would not have been any alarm for this. When plane sank to contact runway after bounce before TOGA thrust spooled up, engines scraped the runway while gear was prematurely retracted.

I was reading accident report of Smartlynx incident in Estonia which is very similar to PIA. There are some differences in steps 1-10, Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice and has a software issue, PIA is different because it was completely normal with no issues before 1st landing. But from step 11 to the end, it is exact same situation for both PIA and Smartlynx when both pilots select TOGA, retract gear, plane sinks, engine scrapes, and the rest all the way to the end.

PIA flight could have been saved if they followed what pilots did in Smartlynx incident:

In Smartlynx accident:
  1. Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice training flights
  2. During training flight, Smartlynx has normal landing
  3. Smartlynx plane has incorrect software setting
  4. Pilot cannot get plane to increase thrust at all after touchdown, plane does not respond to pilot’s command inputs to raise nose to takeoff again because of incorrect software setting
  5. Captain takes full control from other pilot
  6. TOGA thrust does not work at all, no response from plane
  7. Captain quickly decides to use trim to chance pitch to get airborne as he is running out of runway and TOGA is not working because of software glitch.
  8. Plane briefly lifts off ground and gear retraction is selected too early
  9. Plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear is in process of being retracted, doors have not yet closed.
  10. When plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear doors which have not fully closed are ripped off and engines scrape the ground.
  11. ********PIA SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE STEPS THAT SMARTLYNX DID BELOW********
  12. Smartlynx gets airborne and realizes that they must return to airport IMMEDIATELY because their hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking after engine scraped ground and they must make it back to airport before all hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, otherwise their engines will both shut down. Smartlynx tries to make it back to airport as quickly as possible as they only have 5 minutes before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil runs out which will trigger engine overheat and shutdown.
  13. Smartlynx immediately starts making a rapid 180 emergency turn to land on same runway from opposite direction (PIA’s mistake was fatal error that they took long route and did a 360 back to 25L, PIA did not have enough time for this, they only had 5 minutes because of leaking fluid)
  14. After Smartlynx makes 180 turn back to land on runway from opposite direction, both engines shutdown midair as all oil runs out, hydraulic fluid also runs out and disables flaps.
  15. Smartlynx glides to runway and barely lands at the airport hitting the runway lights, but plane is intact and everyone survives.
PIA and Smartlynx flight both only had 5 minutes to make it back to runway since both scraped engine on ground and started rapidly leaking hydraulic fluid and oil from bottom of the engine. Both engines shut down while flying in PIA and Smartlynx when oil ran out. The big difference why Smartlynx safely glided to runway in emergency landing while PIA crashed is that in both PIA and Smartlynx, the hydraulic fluid and oil takes the same amount of time to leak, the plane only has 5 minutes to make it back to runway before fluids run out from leakage. Smartlynx decided to do very fast and quick emergency 180 turn back to runway from opposite direction which took less than 5 minutes. PIA decided to do 360 circle back to 25L which took more than 5 minutes. Both engines shutdown in PIA and Smartlynx, but since Smartlynx 180 turn took less time, it was much closer to the runway when its engines shutdown than PIA which farther away from runway when its engines shutdown because PIA was doing a longer 360 circle. In the 5 minutes, before hydraulic fluids and oil ran out, both PIA and Smartlynx had the same amount of time, 5 minutes. Smartlynx 180 turn back took less time than PIA’s 360 turn so Smartlynx got closer to the runway before dual engine failure and was able to glide almost all the way to the airport where they hit the runway lights. Everyone on Smartlynx survived and Smartlynx plane was intact. PIA 360 circle to 25L took too long and they ran out of 5 minute window, when their oil ran out and both engines shut down, they were not close enough to the runway to do a glide all the way like Smartlynx and crashed during the glide at Model Colony.

Smartlynx accident report below:

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/report-download.php?id=683

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety...ursed-home-after-runway-strike/135161.article

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/smartlynx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san/

smartlinx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san-.jpg

There are a lot of errors in your post. Sorry!!

If you hear the ATC recording, there are chimes that indicate "gear unsafe". Basically gear extended but did not lock. Skid marks on engine indicate the nose gear was not locked (aircraft was nose down). Also, RAT has no relation to landing gear. It is auto deployed when both engines are shut.
 
Here is my revised new theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt

2. There are no mechanical problems of any kind, no landing gear issue, no engine issue, no hydraulics issue, no mechanical issue of any kind before 1st landing attempt.

3. Pilots are coming in too fast and too high resulting in an unstable approach that will later require a go around. Basically the approach is rushed.

4. Pilots put gear down during landing approach. Gear comes down as normal, no problems with landing gear.

5. Unstable approach causes plane to make a hard bounce on runway. One of the survivors said the plane bounced into the air on landing followed by hard friction with sparks and smoke.

6. When the plane bounced into the air, the pilots set TOGA thrust and accidentally selected gear up first instead of flaps up. Normally you are supposed to select flaps up first and then gear up so you have time to clear the runway before retracting gear.

7. Pilots mistakenly selected gear up too early during bounce, plane momentarily sinks and engines make contact with the runway with gear retracted before TOGA thrust kicks in. Pilots should have retracted the gear a few seconds later after plane had safely aborted and cleared the runway. Basically they retracted gear too early when aborting a bounced landing causing engine to scrape the runway with gear retracted.

8. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks

9. Pilot immediately goes around

10. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt

11. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings

12. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.

13. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.

14. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.

15. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.

16. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.

17. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

Some observations:

1. This incident is identical to Smartlynx A320 incident in Estonia, that plane almost crashed too. Pilot saved it because he knew he had very little time to make it back to runway. Once engine scrapes runway, oil and hydraulic fluid immediately start leaking out of the bottom of the engine. Basically when engine scrapes, leakage of critical fluid starts as hydraulic fluid and oil run out in around 5 minutes. So basically you have countdown timer of 5 minutes after the engines scrape and pilot aborts to save the airplane and make it back to the runway. PIA took long route to circle back to 25L and did not make it back to runway before 5 minutes, hence hydraulic fluid and oil ran out and caused dual engine shutdown near where CCTV video was recorded just as he was on short final at last minute and he crashed before runway. I read the safety report of the Smartlynx accident. Smartlynx problem had almost identical situation to PIA after scraping engines and aborting, but pilot of Smartlynx plane knew they had only 5 minutes to make it back to runway before hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, so instead of making a long full 360 circle back to runway like PIA, they made 180 turn to do an emergency opposite direction approach and safely landed with plane intact. At Karachi, if PIA had made 180 turn to approach Runway 7R from opposite direction, it would probably have landed safely.

2. An early gear retraction during abort when plane briefly sank and engines scraped runway before TOGA thrust kicked in and plane starting climbing again explains how the plane could have contacted the runway with gear up. It simply is not possible to approach the runway and forget to extend landing gear. There are too many alarms reminding them, pilots would never have made this mistake. However, if they aborted after a hard bounce and retracted gear too early before TOGA thrust kicked in, there would not have been any alarm for this. When plane sank to contact runway after bounce before TOGA thrust spooled up, engines scraped the runway while gear was prematurely retracted.

I was reading accident report of Smartlynx incident in Estonia which is very similar to PIA. There are some differences in steps 1-10, Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice and has a software issue, PIA is different because it was completely normal with no issues before 1st landing. But from step 11 to the end, it is exact same situation for both PIA and Smartlynx when both pilots select TOGA, retract gear, plane sinks, engine scrapes, and the rest all the way to the end.

PIA flight could have been saved if they followed what pilots did in Smartlynx incident:

In Smartlynx accident:
  1. Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice training flights
  2. During training flight, Smartlynx has normal landing
  3. Smartlynx plane has incorrect software setting
  4. Pilot cannot get plane to increase thrust at all after touchdown, plane does not respond to pilot’s command inputs to raise nose to takeoff again because of incorrect software setting
  5. Captain takes full control from other pilot
  6. TOGA thrust does not work at all, no response from plane
  7. Captain quickly decides to use trim to chance pitch to get airborne as he is running out of runway and TOGA is not working because of software glitch.
  8. Plane briefly lifts off ground and gear retraction is selected too early
  9. Plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear is in process of being retracted, doors have not yet closed.
  10. When plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear doors which have not fully closed are ripped off and engines scrape the ground.
  11. ********PIA SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE STEPS THAT SMARTLYNX DID BELOW********
  12. Smartlynx gets airborne and realizes that they must return to airport IMMEDIATELY because their hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking after engine scraped ground and they must make it back to airport before all hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, otherwise their engines will both shut down. Smartlynx tries to make it back to airport as quickly as possible as they only have 5 minutes before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil runs out which will trigger engine overheat and shutdown.
  13. Smartlynx immediately starts making a rapid 180 emergency turn to land on same runway from opposite direction (PIA’s mistake was fatal error that they took long route and did a 360 back to 25L, PIA did not have enough time for this, they only had 5 minutes because of leaking fluid)
  14. After Smartlynx makes 180 turn back to land on runway from opposite direction, both engines shutdown midair as all oil runs out, hydraulic fluid also runs out and disables flaps.
  15. Smartlynx glides to runway and barely lands at the airport hitting the runway lights, but plane is intact and everyone survives.
PIA and Smartlynx flight both only had 5 minutes to make it back to runway since both scraped engine on ground and started rapidly leaking hydraulic fluid and oil from bottom of the engine. Both engines shut down while flying in PIA and Smartlynx when oil ran out. The big difference why Smartlynx safely glided to runway in emergency landing while PIA crashed is that in both PIA and Smartlynx, the hydraulic fluid and oil takes the same amount of time to leak, the plane only has 5 minutes to make it back to runway before fluids run out from leakage. Smartlynx decided to do very fast and quick emergency 180 turn back to runway from opposite direction which took less than 5 minutes. PIA decided to do 360 circle back to 25L which took more than 5 minutes. Both engines shutdown in PIA and Smartlynx, but since Smartlynx 180 turn took less time, it was much closer to the runway when its engines shutdown than PIA which farther away from runway when its engines shutdown because PIA was doing a longer 360 circle. In the 5 minutes, before hydraulic fluids and oil ran out, both PIA and Smartlynx had the same amount of time, 5 minutes. Smartlynx 180 turn back took less time than PIA’s 360 turn so Smartlynx got closer to the runway before dual engine failure and was able to glide almost all the way to the airport where they hit the runway lights. Everyone on Smartlynx survived and Smartlynx plane was intact. PIA 360 circle to 25L took too long and they ran out of 5 minute window, when their oil ran out and both engines shut down, they were not close enough to the runway to do a glide all the way like Smartlynx and crashed during the glide at Model Colony.

Smartlynx accident report below:

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/report-download.php?id=683

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety...ursed-home-after-runway-strike/135161.article

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/smartlynx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san/

smartlinx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san-.jpg
Please do not try to be someone you are not.
You are not a pilot or an air accident investigator.

The correct call out for a standard go around is same as take off. Gears then flaps then slats. This aircraft had already done 2 missisd approaches. One of them indicates that the Engines touched the goudt at 4700 and 5000 ft down the line. The Pilots might have thought they could not stop in time hence initiated go around. 25L is 10000 ft only so touching half way down could have ment this aircraft would have hit lights and other equiptment at the end of the runway.
 
Here is my revised new theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt

2. There are no mechanical problems of any kind, no landing gear issue, no engine issue, no hydraulics issue, no mechanical issue of any kind before 1st landing attempt.

3. Pilots are coming in too fast and too high resulting in an unstable approach that will later require a go around. Basically the approach is rushed.

4. Pilots put gear down during landing approach. Gear comes down as normal, no problems with landing gear.

5. Unstable approach causes plane to make a hard bounce on runway. One of the survivors said the plane bounced into the air on landing followed by hard friction with sparks and smoke.

6. When the plane bounced into the air, the pilots set TOGA thrust and accidentally selected gear up first instead of flaps up. Normally you are supposed to select flaps up first and then gear up so you have time to clear the runway before retracting gear.

7. Pilots mistakenly selected gear up too early during bounce, plane momentarily sinks and engines make contact with the runway with gear retracted before TOGA thrust kicks in. Pilots should have retracted the gear a few seconds later after plane had safely aborted and cleared the runway. Basically they retracted gear too early when aborting a bounced landing causing engine to scrape the runway with gear retracted.

8. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks

9. Pilot immediately goes around

10. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt

11. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings

12. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.

13. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of both scraped engines, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.

14. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.

15. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of both scraped engines, without oil both engines overheat and shut down, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.

16. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.

17. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

Some observations:

1. This incident is identical to Smartlynx A320 incident in Estonia, that plane almost crashed too. Pilot saved it because he knew he had very little time to make it back to runway. Once engine scrapes runway, oil and hydraulic fluid immediately start leaking out of the bottom of the engine. Basically when engine scrapes, leakage of critical fluid starts as hydraulic fluid and oil run out in around 5 minutes. So basically you have countdown timer of 5 minutes after the engines scrape and pilot aborts to save the airplane and make it back to the runway. PIA took long route to circle back to 25L and did not make it back to runway before 5 minutes, hence hydraulic fluid and oil ran out and caused dual engine shutdown near where CCTV video was recorded just as he was on short final at last minute and he crashed before runway. I read the safety report of the Smartlynx accident. Smartlynx problem had almost identical situation to PIA after scraping engines and aborting, but pilot of Smartlynx plane knew they had only 5 minutes to make it back to runway before hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, so instead of making a long full 360 circle back to runway like PIA, they made 180 turn to do an emergency opposite direction approach and safely landed with plane intact. At Karachi, if PIA had made 180 turn to approach Runway 7R from opposite direction, it would probably have landed safely.

2. An early gear retraction during abort when plane briefly sank and engines scraped runway before TOGA thrust kicked in and plane starting climbing again explains how the plane could have contacted the runway with gear up. It simply is not possible to approach the runway and forget to extend landing gear. There are too many alarms reminding them, pilots would never have made this mistake. However, if they aborted after a hard bounce and retracted gear too early before TOGA thrust kicked in, there would not have been any alarm for this. When plane sank to contact runway after bounce before TOGA thrust spooled up, engines scraped the runway while gear was prematurely retracted.

I was reading accident report of Smartlynx incident in Estonia which is very similar to PIA. There are some differences in steps 1-10, Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice and has a software issue, PIA is different because it was completely normal with no issues before 1st landing. But from step 11 to the end, it is exact same situation for both PIA and Smartlynx when both pilots select TOGA, retract gear, plane sinks, engine scrapes, and the rest all the way to the end.

PIA flight could have been saved if they followed what pilots did in Smartlynx incident:

In Smartlynx accident:
  1. Smartlynx is doing touch and go practice training flights
  2. During training flight, Smartlynx has normal landing
  3. Smartlynx plane has incorrect software setting
  4. Pilot cannot get plane to increase thrust at all after touchdown, plane does not respond to pilot’s command inputs to raise nose to takeoff again because of incorrect software setting
  5. Captain takes full control from other pilot
  6. TOGA thrust does not work at all, no response from plane
  7. Captain quickly decides to use trim to chance pitch to get airborne as he is running out of runway and TOGA is not working because of software glitch.
  8. Plane briefly lifts off ground and gear retraction is selected too early
  9. Plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear is in process of being retracted, doors have not yet closed.
  10. When plane briefly sinks back to ground, landing gear doors which have not fully closed are ripped off and engines scrape the ground.
  11. ********PIA SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED THE STEPS THAT SMARTLYNX DID BELOW********
  12. Smartlynx gets airborne and realizes that they must return to airport IMMEDIATELY because their hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking after engine scraped ground and they must make it back to airport before all hydraulic fluid and oil runs out, otherwise their engines will both shut down. Smartlynx tries to make it back to airport as quickly as possible as they only have 5 minutes before leaking hydraulic fluid and oil runs out which will trigger engine overheat and shutdown.
  13. Smartlynx immediately starts making a rapid 180 emergency turn to land on same runway from opposite direction (PIA’s mistake was fatal error that they took long route and did a 360 back to 25L, PIA did not have enough time for this, they only had 5 minutes because of leaking fluid)
  14. After Smartlynx makes 180 turn back to land on runway from opposite direction, both engines shutdown midair as all oil runs out, hydraulic fluid also runs out and disables flaps.
  15. Smartlynx glides to runway and barely lands at the airport hitting the runway lights, but plane is intact and everyone survives.
PIA and Smartlynx flight both only had 5 minutes to make it back to runway since both scraped engine on ground and started rapidly leaking hydraulic fluid and oil from bottom of the engine. Both engines shut down while flying in PIA and Smartlynx when oil ran out. The big difference why Smartlynx safely glided to runway in emergency landing while PIA crashed is that in both PIA and Smartlynx, the hydraulic fluid and oil takes the same amount of time to leak, the plane only has 5 minutes to make it back to runway before fluids run out from leakage. Smartlynx decided to do very fast and quick emergency 180 turn back to runway from opposite direction which took less than 5 minutes. PIA decided to do 360 circle back to 25L which took more than 5 minutes. Both engines shutdown in PIA and Smartlynx, but since Smartlynx 180 turn took less time, it was much closer to the runway when its engines shutdown than PIA which farther away from runway when its engines shutdown because PIA was doing a longer 360 circle. In the 5 minutes, before hydraulic fluids and oil ran out, both PIA and Smartlynx had the same amount of time, 5 minutes. Smartlynx 180 turn back took less time than PIA’s 360 turn so Smartlynx got closer to the runway before dual engine failure and was able to glide almost all the way to the airport where they hit the runway lights. Everyone on Smartlynx survived and Smartlynx plane was intact. PIA 360 circle to 25L took too long and they ran out of 5 minute window, when their oil ran out and both engines shut down, they were not close enough to the runway to do a glide all the way like Smartlynx and crashed during the glide at Model Colony.

Smartlynx accident report below:

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/report-download.php?id=683

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety...ursed-home-after-runway-strike/135161.article

https://www.aviation-accidents.net/smartlynx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san/

smartlinx-airlines-airbus-a320-214-es-san-.jpg
@Safriz ...did you post the picture both engine damaged from bottom due to tarmac friction ???..was it landing gear damaged too and pilot ask for belly landing clearance ??
 
@Safriz ...did you post the picture both engine damaged from bottom due to tarmac friction ???..was it landing gear damaged too and pilot ask for belly landing clearance ??
EYqxEtHVcAAhaDY.jpeg


EYqxEtHVcAAhaDY.jpeg
EYn1AsDX0AABagE (1).jpeg


Yes.
Both engines showing significant damage on the bottom.
How and why the engines scraped the runway on the first attempt is not known and hopefully investigation report will reveal this.
 
you should watch todays tv programme , very disturbings news about the pilots , misconduct, failure to follow procedure, emergency protocols,

http://www.unewstv.com/175548/muqabil-eid-ke-chaand-ka-masla-23rd-may-2020


(@ 19 minutes onwards)

Would be very interesting to know whether the pilot was Fasting on that ill-fated day. Given the information given in this programme, I have a gut feeling that the pilot was fasting and this may have caused a reduction in his thinking and situational awareness. According to the link above, the pilot was overspeeding and too height. ATC warned him TWICE to reduce speed and altitude and the response according to this programme was "I'll handle it!" Due to the speed of the aircraft, the gear didn't deploy and thus the engines hit the ground. If true, you really couldn't make it up! If rules and regulations aren't followed, accidents like these are bound to happen! :(
 
Last edited:
It looks like pilot had difficulty in deploying landing gear and he made 3 attempts not 2.
On the last attempt the landing gear was open but engines dead

Do you have picture of landing gear opening before first landing attempt ? .... just curious to know if he requested for belly landing on first call or second call ...
There is a possibility that pilot forgot to deploy landing gear on first approach. Just saying.
 
It looks like pilot had difficulty in deploying landing gear and he made 3 attempts not 2.
On the last attempt the landing gear was open but engines dead


There is a possibility that pilot forgot to deploy landing gear on first approach. Just saying.
Local eye witness accounts on ARYNEWS, said, we saw these planes all days, but never seen a plane without noise or engine sound ...
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom