Philippines Defence Forum

[Pinoy]

Otto Energy flows oil from Philippines offshore development well
Wednesday, October 16, 2013 by Proactive Investors

Otto Energy (ASX: OEL) has successfully flowed oil at a rate of 6,300 barrels per day from the Galoc-5H development well in the offshore Palawan Basin, Philippines.

This is inline with the forecast overall field production of 12,000bpd once the Phase II expansion is brought into production in late November 2013.

The company will now move to test the Galoc-6H development well.

Phase II development of the Galoc oil field is designed to more than double production to 12,000 barrels of oil per day and ensures the field will remain in production beyond 2020.

Otto has a 33% operating stake in the Galoc oil field, while fellow Australian Nido Petroleum (ASX: NDO) holds 22.88%. The other partners are Kuwait Foreign Petroleum Exploration Company (26.84%), Oil Gas & Power Corporation 7.79%, The Philodrill Corporation 7.21% and the Forum Energy Philippines Corporation 2.28%.

Otto Energy flows oil from Philippines offshore development well - Proactiveinvestors (AU)

 

[Pinoy]

PH economy seen growing 7-10% in next 10 years: Villegas
By Louella D. Desiderio, The Philippine Star
10/17/2013

MANILA- The Philippine economy could grow by seven to 10 percent in the next 10 years amid improving governance and business climate, one of the country’s leading economists said.

“Growth rates of seven to 10 percent is possible in the next 10 years,” University of Asia and the Pacific economist Bernardo Villegas said during the general membership meeting of the American Chamber of Commerce of the Philippines yesterday.

He noted though that what is more possible for the country to attain is the seven- to eight-percent growth as the country still lacks the necessary infrastructure to support faster expansion of the economy.

Among the factors seen to help the country sustain its positive economic performance are stable democracy; improving governance; labor peace; availability of young, educated, English-speaking workforce, strategic geographic location in Southeast Asia; renaissance of manufacturing; high rate of savings due to overseas Filipino workers’ remittances; and low rate of dependence on petroleum.

The economy grew 7.5 percent in the second quarter, bringing first semester growth at 7.6 percent.

“The bad news is the 10-percent growth is at the moment far-fetched.

We can grow by 10 percent but unfortunately, we have very weak link to transport system,” Villegas said.

He added that reaching the high-end of the range is also difficult as the rollout of Public-Private Partnership (PPP) projects has been slow.

For the economy to grow at 10 percent, he said the government needs to spend more on infrastructure. Inefficient infrastructure is among the weaknesses faced by the country in achieving faster economic growth.

Villegas said the restrictive economic restrictions of the Constitution also prevent foreign firms from investing in certain activities here.

The Constitution sets a 40-percent limit on foreign ownership in the following activities: development of natural resources, investment in areas recommended by the national and planning agency to be of national interest, operation of public utility franchises, and educational institutions, except those established by religious or mission groups.

Engagement in the advertising industry meanwhile, is limited to firms that are at least 70 percent Filipino owned.

Those which are only open to Filipino citizens are agricultural lands of public domain, ownership and management of mass media, as well as holding of executive and managing positions in the advertising industry.

Villegas said amending the restrictive economic restrictions will allow the country to attract more foreign investments and to participate in the Trans Pacific Partnership which seeks to liberalize 12 economies in the Asia-Pacific region and offers huge economic opportunities.

“Why do we need FDIs (foreign direct investments)? It is not because we lack money. We lack long term money to be tied down to projects.

Even more, we need access to technology,” he added.

PH economy seen growing 7-10% in next 10 years: Villegas | ABS-CBN News

 

[Pinoy]

Sulu sultanate presses for Sabah bid
By Ferdinand Fabella | Posted on October 16, 2013

As the Muslim community celebrates Eid’l Adha, the Sultanate of Sulu, the Islamic Tausug state that ruled over many islands in southern Philippines, vowed never to abandon its territorial claim over Sabah.

Abraham Idjirani, the sultanate’s spokesman and secretary-general, said they have to fight for their rights over Sabah after the Aquino administration abandoned its claim on the territory, which Malaysia controls as its 13th state.

“The claim of the Sultanate of Sulu over Sabah through the Government of the Republic of the Philippines is now abandoned by the Philippine government. In view of that, the Sultanate is compelled to pursue independently the claim, acting on its historic and legal rights over Sabah,” Idjirani said from the residence of Sulu Sultan Jamalul Kiram III in Maharlika Village, Taguig City.

On February, Kiram sent his brother, Raja Muda (crown prince) Agbimuddin Kiram to Sabah, along with 200 fighters to revive the sultanate’s long-standing claim over the resource-rich Sabah.

The intrusion prompted the Malaysian military to launch offensive operations to flush out Kiram’s armed followers. A total of 68 members of the sultanate’s Royal Security Forces (RSF) and 10 Malaysian policemen and soldiers were killed in the series of clashes.

Seven months after the cessation of hostilities, the RSF in Sabah has grown to 1,600 men, backed up by volunteers from the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF), according to Idjirani.

“The continued presence of Raja Muda in Sabah is now the Sultanate’s assertion by itself of their sovereign and proprietary rights over the territory,” Idjirani pointed out.

The RSF, Idjirani said, remained in Lahad Datu, maintaining a defensive stand to avoid further clashes with the Malaysian security forces.

“They were continuously repositioning in controlled areas to avoid an encounter with the Malaysian forces, which is in compliance with the previous call of the United Nations for sobriety,” the sultanate official added.

The sultanate’s presence in Sabah, Idjirani stressed, also hopes to prove to the international community that Malaysia does not respect international agreements as in the case of the Manila Accord of 1963.

The 1963 agreement was signed by the Philippines, Indonesia, then Federation of Malaya and the Sulu Sultanate in July 31, 1963 wherein the three signatory-states agreed to recognize the Sulu Sultanate’s claim over Sabah and peacefully solve the dispute in the UN.

“Malaysia is a mere administrator of Sabah as the issue is still pending resolution in the UN since 1962,” Idjirani said.

Sulu sultanate presses for Sabah bid - Manila Standard Today

 

[Fsjal]

10%?

1. That's almost impossible. Compare to South Korea, Japan, China and Indonesia, we aren't even industrialized.

2. The Philippines has no technology. Its economy will grow a little bit and hit a brick wall. The Indians are familiar with this problem. The barrier is called non-industrialized country. You need technology to sustain growth in your economy and become a developed country.

What technology am I talking about?

a) Can we build a five-axis machine tool?
b) Can we build semiconductor chips at 40nm or below?
c) Can we build an offshore billion-dollar oil rig?
d) Can we build a 10,000 pound satellite that carries 32 transponders with a 15-year lifespan?
e) Can we build gasoline-powered or electric-powered vehicles?

If the answer is "no" to most of the above, then our country is not industrialized.

3. An 8% growth in the Philippine economy doesn't mean a thing if its currency depreciates. Look at the Indians. The Indian currency has depreciated 40% in two years. Indian economic growth doesn't mean jack sh*t. Their currency is going straight to hell.

4. The Philippine economy is about $200 billion. 8% growth means an increase of $16 billion added to your economy.

China's economy is $8.23 trillion. Factoring in 7.5% economic growth and 3% currency appreciation, China's economy will reach $9 trillion this year. China's economy will grow by $800 billion this year.

It will take the Philippines 50 years of 8% growth to match China's growth for 2013 alone. In other words, Philippine absolute economic growth is minuscule and unworthy of attention.

5. Philippine economic performance will not help the Philippines' non-existent military. China has a $106 billion military budget and they're preparing to introduce stealth fighters. Chinese military technology is hundreds of years ahead of the Philippines. No amount of 8% Philippine economic growth can fix the military gap.

In conclusion, Philippine economic growth may hold interest for the locals. However, it has little influence on geostrategic issues. Philippine economic growth will not move the meter in the Philippines' dimunitive economic power or its ability to purchase small quantities of foreign arms. Furthermore, Philippine economic growth shows no apparent effect on the Philippine level of technology (which is pretty darn low) and has no detectable impact on non-existent indigenous Filipino military technology.

Compare to Deng Xiaoping, Aquino is nothing. Deng Xiaoping made China's economy growth very high while lifting millions of people out of poverty, while modernizing the military. As for Aquino, he complaints on how China is aggressive, while he cries to Uncle Sam.

 

[Zero_wing]

10%?

1. That's almost impossible. Compare to South Korea, Japan, China and Indonesia, we aren't even industrialized.

2. The Philippines has no technology. Its economy will grow a little bit and hit a brick wall. The Indians are familiar with this problem. The barrier is called non-industrialized country. You need technology to sustain growth in your economy and become a developed country.

What technology am I talking about?

a) Can we build a five-axis machine tool?
b) Can we build semiconductor chips at 40nm or below?
c) Can we build an offshore billion-dollar oil rig?
d) Can we build a 10,000 pound satellite that carries 32 transponders with a 15-year lifespan?
e) Can we build gasoline-powered or electric-powered vehicles?

If the answer is "no" to most of the above, then our country is not industrialized.

3. An 8% growth in the Philippine economy doesn't mean a thing if its currency depreciates. Look at the Indians. The Indian currency has depreciated 40% in two years. Indian economic growth doesn't mean jack sh*t. Their currency is going straight to hell.

4. The Philippine economy is about $200 billion. 8% growth means an increase of $16 billion added to your economy.

China's economy is $8.23 trillion. Factoring in 7.5% economic growth and 3% currency appreciation, China's economy will reach $9 trillion this year. China's economy will grow by $800 billion this year.

It will take the Philippines 50 years of 8% growth to match China's growth for 2013 alone. In other words, Philippine absolute economic growth is minuscule and unworthy of attention.

5. Philippine economic performance will not help the Philippines' non-existent military. China has a $106 billion military budget and they're preparing to introduce stealth fighters. Chinese military technology is hundreds of years ahead of the Philippines. No amount of 8% Philippine economic growth can fix the military gap.

In conclusion, Philippine economic growth may hold interest for the locals. However, it has little influence on geostrategic issues. Philippine economic growth will not move the meter in the Philippines' dimunitive economic power or its ability to purchase small quantities of foreign arms. Furthermore, Philippine economic growth shows no apparent effect on the Philippine level of technology (which is pretty darn low) and has no detectable impact on non-existent indigenous Filipino military technology.

Compare to Deng Xiaoping, Aquino is nothing. Deng Xiaoping made China's economy growth very high while lifting millions of people out of poverty, while modernizing the military. As for Aquino, he complaints on how China is aggressive, while he cries to Uncle Sam.

Can you shut up and have brain for ones you stupid troll! its like your comparing a zebra to a horse? Its like your just dumb well you are chinese after all.

Anyway economies of both countries are different one you have cheap labor force and companies love that (but good thing your losing this since you alienate some of them due to extreme nationalism, racism and your constant violations of International copy rights besides UNCLOS basically International law in general)the thing is your country copied majority of its products and steal ideas, Resources from other countries etc and flood markets with said stolen fake cheap made products and helping local and fellow chinese smugglers grow (no customs taxes or any kind of tax paid at all) Results on lose of revenue for the government, killing of local industries etc. Tell my this you stupid troll did peng had this problems? He had one big job to clean moron mao messes during the cultural revolution (aka kill millions for my stupid ideas and let me hold in to power campaign) so again dude have brain!

 

[Bienvenido]

10%?

1. That's almost impossible. Compare to South Korea, Japan, China and Indonesia, we aren't even industrialized.

2. The Philippines has no technology. Its economy will grow a little bit and hit a brick wall. The Indians are familiar with this problem. The barrier is called non-industrialized country. You need technology to sustain growth in your economy and become a developed country.

What technology am I talking about?

a) Can we build a five-axis machine tool?
b) Can we build semiconductor chips at 40nm or below?
c) Can we build an offshore billion-dollar oil rig?
d) Can we build a 10,000 pound satellite that carries 32 transponders with a 15-year lifespan?
e) Can we build gasoline-powered or electric-powered vehicles?

If the answer is "no" to most of the above, then our country is not industrialized.

3. An 8% growth in the Philippine economy doesn't mean a thing if its currency depreciates. Look at the Indians. The Indian currency has depreciated 40% in two years. Indian economic growth doesn't mean jack sh*t. Their currency is going straight to hell.

4. The Philippine economy is about $200 billion. 8% growth means an increase of $16 billion added to your economy.

China's economy is $8.23 trillion. Factoring in 7.5% economic growth and 3% currency appreciation, China's economy will reach $9 trillion this year. China's economy will grow by $800 billion this year.

It will take the Philippines 50 years of 8% growth to match China's growth for 2013 alone. In other words, Philippine absolute economic growth is minuscule and unworthy of attention.

5. Philippine economic performance will not help the Philippines' non-existent military. China has a $106 billion military budget and they're preparing to introduce stealth fighters. Chinese military technology is hundreds of years ahead of the Philippines. No amount of 8% Philippine economic growth can fix the military gap.

In conclusion, Philippine economic growth may hold interest for the locals. However, it has little influence on geostrategic issues. Philippine economic growth will not move the meter in the Philippines' dimunitive economic power or its ability to purchase small quantities of foreign arms. Furthermore, Philippine economic growth shows no apparent effect on the Philippine level of technology (which is pretty darn low) and has no detectable impact on non-existent indigenous Filipino military technology.

Compare to Deng Xiaoping, Aquino is nothing. Deng Xiaoping made China's economy growth very high while lifting millions of people out of poverty, while modernizing the military. As for Aquino, he complaints on how China is aggressive, while he cries to Uncle Sam.

Tonta! Bobo! Tanga! Did you even bother to read and understand the whole article?

No tienes cerebro! And also stop saying "we" because your not a real Filipino. Everyone knows your just a damn Chinese freakin Troll

 

[Bob Ong]

10%?

1. That's almost impossible. Compare to South Korea, Japan, China and Indonesia, we aren't even industrialized.

2. The Philippines has no technology. Its economy will grow a little bit and hit a brick wall. The Indians are familiar with this problem. The barrier is called non-industrialized country. You need technology to sustain growth in your economy and become a developed country.

What technology am I talking about?

a) Can we build a five-axis machine tool?
b) Can we build semiconductor chips at 40nm or below?
c) Can we build an offshore billion-dollar oil rig?
d) Can we build a 10,000 pound satellite that carries 32 transponders with a 15-year lifespan?
e) Can we build gasoline-powered or electric-powered vehicles?

If the answer is "no" to most of the above, then our country is not industrialized.

3. An 8% growth in the Philippine economy doesn't mean a thing if its currency depreciates. Look at the Indians. The Indian currency has depreciated 40% in two years. Indian economic growth doesn't mean jack sh*t. Their currency is going straight to hell.

4. The Philippine economy is about $200 billion. 8% growth means an increase of $16 billion added to your economy.

China's economy is $8.23 trillion. Factoring in 7.5% economic growth and 3% currency appreciation, China's economy will reach $9 trillion this year. China's economy will grow by $800 billion this year.

It will take the Philippines 50 years of 8% growth to match China's growth for 2013 alone. In other words, Philippine absolute economic growth is minuscule and unworthy of attention.

5. Philippine economic performance will not help the Philippines' non-existent military. China has a $106 billion military budget and they're preparing to introduce stealth fighters. Chinese military technology is hundreds of years ahead of the Philippines. No amount of 8% Philippine economic growth can fix the military gap.

In conclusion, Philippine economic growth may hold interest for the locals. However, it has little influence on geostrategic issues. Philippine economic growth will not move the meter in the Philippines' dimunitive economic power or its ability to purchase small quantities of foreign arms. Furthermore, Philippine economic growth shows no apparent effect on the Philippine level of technology (which is pretty darn low) and has no detectable impact on non-existent indigenous Filipino military technology.

Compare to Deng Xiaoping, Aquino is nothing. Deng Xiaoping made China's economy growth very high while lifting millions of people out of poverty, while modernizing the military. As for Aquino, he complaints on how China is aggressive, while he cries to Uncle Sam.

WARNING: This poster Fsjal is a paid 50c party troll. His comments at best worth a dime. Take his posts with a grain of salt.

 

[Fsjal]

Can you shut up and have brain for ones you stupid troll! its like your comparing a zebra to a horse? Its like your just dumb well you are chinese after all.

Anyway economies of both countries are different one you have cheap labor force and companies love that (but good thing your losing this since you alienate some of them due to extreme nationalism, racism and your constant violations of International copy rights besides UNCLOS basically International law in general)the thing is your country copied majority of its products and steal ideas, Resources from other countries etc and flood markets with said stolen fake cheap made products and helping local and fellow chinese smugglers grow (no customs taxes or any kind of tax paid at all) Results on lose of revenue for the government, killing of local industries etc. Tell my this you stupid troll did peng had this problems? He had one big job to clean moron mao messes during the cultural revolution (aka kill millions for my stupid ideas and let me hold in to power campaign) so again dude have brain!

You need to have a brain, you illiterate moron.

All you do is barf out garbage, which is not understandable.

Looks like the truth has hurt your ego.

 

[Zero_wing]

You need to have a brain, you illiterate moron.

All you do is barf out garbage, which is not understandable.

Looks like the truth has hurt your ego.

Ha running out of things to say? again just because you made a post it does not make you genus! you trolling fool

 

[p3avi8tor69]

Why don't you Pinoy clowns challenge Fsjal's assertion. Challenge it point by point. Instead you clowns responded by calling him this that. Are you Pinoys so bereft of intellect that you cannot present your counter arguments. How in the fark can you clowns defend your country's image with senseless garbage. If you think his post is infantile then present your side. As it is, Fsjal wins since he presented his arguments with what he believes are his set of facts.

 

[Fsjal]

Ha running out of things to say? again just because you made a post it does not make you genus! you trolling fool

I didn't say I was a genius 'cause of that post.

I'm saying that you can't accept the very fact that the economy will never grow at 10% because of those many reasons.

 

[Bob Ong]

Why don't you Pinoy clowns challenge Fsjal's assertion. Challenge it point by point. Instead you clowns responded by calling him this that. Are you Pinoys so bereft of intellect that you cannot present your counter arguments. How in the fark can you clowns defend your country's image with senseless garbage. If you think his post is infantile then present your side. As it is, Fsjal wins since he presented his arguments with what he believes are his set of facts.

Yeah win my azz shitty hired 50c troll. Moronic gibberish comment not worth answering and who the hell cares what you are thinking, you are just a nuisance for the Pinoys.

 

[Bienvenido]

I didn't say I was a genius 'cause of that post.

I'm saying that you can't accept the very fact that the economy will never grow at 10% because of those many reasons.

Philippines isn't the greatest country in the world and neither is China. Philippines is changing rapidly, if you ever go to the Philippines you would be surprised how much more it developed, you can make fun and talk bad about Philippines, but in the end it is obvious that Philippines will become a develop nation before China. Yes there's a lot of poor Filipinos but you do know China's poverty is worst due to your population size. Your government just hides it because they controlled the media since it's gov owned. So before you go pointing out other countries flaw, fix your country's flaws. Change does not happen overnight. What people should highlight is Filipinos can prosper properly given the right conditions. If we continue this path for the next 10 years, poverty will definitely be solved.

 

[Pinoy]

Kawawa nman ang mga shekwas na ito dito hehe. These typical false flaggers crab will always focusing on shortcomings, always complaining and expecting a perfect government as if China has the perfect government. Poor crabs, whatever they say will not change anything. President Aquino and his good governance is really making a big difference in the progress of our country. He is is really good for the economy. I am sure this is just the beginning of a sustained economic expansion of the Philippines and these few crabs here can not do anything about it. They can not change that fact anymore no matter what.

just my 2 cents donation for Fsjal and p3avi8tor69




S. Korea gives jet, backs PH approach in sea row

By Willard Cheng, ABS-CBN News
10/17/2013

SEOUL - President Aquino and South Korean President Park Geun-hye discussed the current situation in the West Philippine Sea during their summit talks at the Blue House.

Aquino thanked South Korea for supporting the country’s position in taking a rules-based approach in resolving conflicting territorial claims with China.

“We do not want to pick up a fight with anybody but we will do what is needed to protect our sovereignty. As we respect other nations’ rights, we expect them to respect ours,” Aquino was quoted by Communications Secretary Sonny Coloma as saying.

Aquino thanked Park for the imminent transfer to the Philippines of one FA-50 combat jet.

In addition, the Philippines will also be acquiring from South Korea additional aircraft, military vessels and equipment, and command-and-control equipment as part of the AFP modernization program.

Aquino said the newly signed memorandum of understanding on defense cooperation could expand and strengthen “the long-standing partnership between the two countries.”

President Park, meantime, acknowledged the Philippines’ and ASEAN’s support in persuading North Korea to abandon its nuclear program.

TRADE

Both sides committed to enhance bilateral trade with Korea promising to complete the accreditation process that will pave the way for Philippine chicken exports.

Aquino hoped Korea will be able to facilitate the entry of additional Philippine fruits into the Korean market.

Park requested an easing of restrictions to foreign direct investments from her country, “including those on market access, appointment of senior corporate officials, and renewal of business licenses and permits,” according to Coloma.

“President Aquino pledged that the Philippine government will do what is needed to remove bureaucratic bottlenecks,” Coloma said.

SAFETY OF KOREANS

Aquino committed to protect and ensure the safety of Korean citizens in the Philippines numbering around 100,000, but noted that “it is difficult to prosecute” cases involving Koreans “if the perpetrators of crimes against Koreans are their fellow nationals.”

A Korean consulate will be opened in Cebu that will serve the needs of Korean nationals there, said Aquino.

 

[Zero_wing]

I didn't say I was a genius 'cause of that post.

I'm saying that you can't accept the very fact that the economy will never grow at 10% because of those many reasons.

Its only been three years and its still growing its not like its so easy to things happen! How stupid are you really! Its not and never easy to build and rebuild economies stupid in fact it took Singapore 5 decades to do it and Japan only decade and china took half a century again building a country's economy takes time and effort and good economic planing your just dumb to understand its not in Sims were you push buttons and make things happen! It takes a lot to make it and this is a good start and was good that despite the world crises and other man made and natural problems the Philippine economy is still growing and if that's not a miracle then what is?

Kawawa nman ang mga shekwas na ito dito hehe. These typical false flaggers crab will always focusing on shortcomings, always complaining and expecting a perfect government as if China has the perfect government. Poor crabs, whatever they say will not change anything. President Aquino and his good governance is really making a big difference in the progress of our country. He is is really good for the economy. I am sure this is just the beginning of a sustained economic expansion of the Philippines and these few crabs here can not do anything about it. They can not change that fact anymore no matter what.

just my 2 cents donation for Fsjal and p3avi8tor69

S. Korea gives jet, backs PH approach in sea row

By Willard Cheng, ABS-CBN News
10/17/2013

SEOUL - President Aquino and South Korean President Park Geun-hye discussed the current situation in the West Philippine Sea during their summit talks at the Blue House.

Aquino thanked South Korea for supporting the country’s position in taking a rules-based approach in resolving conflicting territorial claims with China.

“We do not want to pick up a fight with anybody but we will do what is needed to protect our sovereignty. As we respect other nations’ rights, we expect them to respect ours,” Aquino was quoted by Communications Secretary Sonny Coloma as saying.

Aquino thanked Park for the imminent transfer to the Philippines of one FA-50 combat jet.

In addition, the Philippines will also be acquiring from South Korea additional aircraft, military vessels and equipment, and command-and-control equipment as part of the AFP modernization program.

Aquino said the newly signed memorandum of understanding on defense cooperation could expand and strengthen “the long-standing partnership between the two countries.”

President Park, meantime, acknowledged the Philippines’ and ASEAN’s support in persuading North Korea to abandon its nuclear program.

TRADE

Both sides committed to enhance bilateral trade with Korea promising to complete the accreditation process that will pave the way for Philippine chicken exports.

Aquino hoped Korea will be able to facilitate the entry of additional Philippine fruits into the Korean market.

Park requested an easing of restrictions to foreign direct investments from her country, “including those on market access, appointment of senior corporate officials, and renewal of business licenses and permits,” according to Coloma.

“President Aquino pledged that the Philippine government will do what is needed to remove bureaucratic bottlenecks,” Coloma said.

SAFETY OF KOREANS

Aquino committed to protect and ensure the safety of Korean citizens in the Philippines numbering around 100,000, but noted that “it is difficult to prosecute” cases involving Koreans “if the perpetrators of crimes against Koreans are their fellow nationals.”

A Korean consulate will be opened in Cebu that will serve the needs of Korean nationals there, said Aquino.

Tol mga oga kasi yung mga hayop na yan post lang post parang Unil pero wala na man kwenta anyway lets jump to english baka ma site na man tayo.

This great news its just take so long to have and get

Why don't you Pinoy clowns challenge Fsjal's assertion. Challenge it point by point. Instead you clowns responded by calling him this that. Are you Pinoys so bereft of intellect that you cannot present your counter arguments. How in the fark can you clowns defend your country's image with senseless garbage. If you think his post is infantile then present your side. As it is, Fsjal wins since he presented his arguments with what he believes are his set of facts.

Oh really then tell me what so factual about it? Then do you even know what trolling is? Oh right i forgot your one yourself of course you should know. Go back to your video games Admiral general from gameland