Pew Research: Fewer Pray in Islamic Republic of Pakistan Than in India, Iran

[Mamadouso]

I guess this relate to the issues like fraud, corruption & drug traffickers while acting religious - every day on here we see Pakistan experiencing corrupt politicians stealing fund from mouth of the poor...yet these leaders probably consider themselves Muslim, it demeans our faith.

The poor people who pray still have belief in Allah even if the elite consider themselves too good for it.

 

[313ghazi]

Lol, another one of your bongi with half-baked facts sprinkled with personal, unfounded opinions.

Just stop.

You have never studied religions and especially statistical models that are used to measure religiosity at societal levels (Breaking News: I have. Worked in the field, actually).

Wealth and education do not always explain the lack of religiosity in society. ALOT of other factors play into it. Take for example Turkey---its relatively wealthy, educated, politically secular, and very Westernized (culturally/and institutionally)---yet, Turkey is very religious relatively compared to its geographical surroundings with similar levels of wealth, westernization of culture, and similar political systems (Greece, Eastern Europe, Russia, Poland, Israel, and so on).

Can you explain why?

Here's a hint: Islam

Some religions are built to exert far greater influence on society than others (everything else the same). Islam and Orthodox Judaism are an example (both are legalistic faiths and not Creedal faiths like Christianity).

I can literally teach an undergrad class on it, but oh well---this is PDF.....enjoy with your internet theories fellas!

Furthermore, just like human history--- the history of religion does not travel in linear lines. More like in cycles. Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Algeria, and Egypt of today are more wealthy, more educated, more open societies----and more religious compared to say 1960's. By your theory, they would have been less religious today, no? But its not as simple.

Anyways, good day

Cmon, share some more info please. Its not often people on pdf claim to be subject matter experts (not knocking your claim). Would love to know a bit more.

 

[Crusher]

Furthermore, just like human history--- the history of religion does not travel in linear lines. More like in cycles. Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Algeria, and Egypt of today are more wealthy, more educated, more open societies----and more religious compared to say 1960's. By your theory, they would have been less religious today, no? But its not as simple.

Totally agree with you on Pakistan, my mother who grew up in 60s told me that in her village in Sialkot there were hardly few people who used to fast in Ramadan, or pray 5 times a day. But now if you go to the same village you would see majority of the people observing Ramadan fasts and many pray regularly 5 times a day. And the people according to her were far more poorer at that time than they are now. So I totally reject the theory that religiosity is linearly controlled by the amount of wealth in a society.

 

[fisher1]

As you become richer you stop believe in fairy tales because you have more confidence in your control over your life.

BTW the US situation is explained by the lack of free healthcare. The uncertainty that creates is why they cling to religion.

Let's see
Israel - the wealthiest people in the world
America
Ireland - wealthiest countries

On the opposite end of spectrum, with atheistic countries but poor

Vietnam
North Korea
Albania

On an individual level, it's even varied.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Breaking News: I have. Worked in the field, actually

Really? We are so delighted at your 'expertise' in the field being shared.

Wealth and education do not always explain the lack of religiosity in society. ALOT of other factors play into it. Take for example Turkey---its relatively wealthy, educated, politically secular, and very Westernized (culturally/and institutionally)---yet, Turkey is very religious relatively compared to its geographical surroundings with similar levels of wealth, westernization of culture, and similar political systems (Greece, Eastern Europe, Russia, Poland, Israel, and so on).

Can you explain why?

Yes. Read BELOW.

It requires at least 4-5 generations removed from real poverty.

Turkey only took off after AKP under Erdogan won in 2001. Prior to that big chunk of the country was poor. So it is far from 4-5 generations yet. And by the way ask the turks here. The Turks from westerly parts of Anatolia or Thrace tend to be less religious and more secular then eastern or central Anatolians who were traditionally poorest of the Turks.

The AKP won from the poor voters -

However, the strong organizational networks of the AKP enabled it to respond to the demands of the Turkish poor, who were focused on their own social and economic problems. The AKP’s ideologically motivated Islamist supporters were by themselves insufficient in number to carry the party to victory. It was the support the party received from poorly educated low-income voters, residing in shantytowns and in rural areas, that provided it with the requisite plurality.

http://www.brandeis.edu/crown/publications1/meb/MEB22.pdf

 

[Placemat]

This study proves that Pakistan is far less religious than it is portrayed.

Thiz negates the tnt

 

[zeeshe100]

Yeh 67 percent beh zeada lag raha hain mujay yakeen nahe ho raha shayed jummah ke nemaz phartay hoon gay

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The AKP won from the poor voters -

However, the strong organizational networks of the AKP enabled it to respond to the demands of the Turkish poor, who were focused on their own social and economic problems. The AKP’s ideologically motivated Islamist supporters were by themselves insufficient in number to carry the party to victory. It was the support the party received from poorly educated low-income voters, residing in shantytowns and in rural areas, that provided it with the requisite plurality.

http://www.brandeis.edu/crown/publications1/meb/MEB22.pdf

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Totally agree with you on Pakistan, my mother who grew up in 60s told me that in her village in Sialkot there were hardly few people who used to fast in Ramadan, or pray 5 times a day. But now if you go to the same village you would see majority of the people observing Ramadan fasts and many pray regularly 5 times a day. And the people according to her were far more poorer at that time than they are now. So I totally reject the theory that religiosity is linearly controlled by the amount of wealth in a society.

The previous generation which is now old (from 50s-70s) was less focused on prayer (though still spiritually religious,) wore western clothes, less hijab, and more influenced by Western culture in general.

Pakistan became much more religious, traditional, and conservative since then. Niqab is becoming more common in cities like Lahore, for example.

In Pakistan, people of large cities tend to be more religious as they actively attend lectures and follow prominent scholars.

I hate the burger pseudo liberals more than the moulvi types but equal garbage to me

Why so much hate for religious Muslims?

This is the vast majority of your country.

 

[macnurv]

I used to think this too, but after reading and listening to a lot of history, I think the number of "Good Muslims" and "Bad Muslims" has always been about the same.
It's just that we have rose colour glasses when we look at the past.

We think that old Muslims were really good and pious but then you have to remember that Hera mandi was a thing, so was drinking alchohol, and it has always been equally easy to not pray today as it was 500 years ago.

What do you exactly mean by good muslims and bad muslims?

Is your definition of a good muslim is some one who prays 5 times a day, yet keeps on lying, cheating and all kind of $hit. The only reason he prays because its more of a habit.

Bad muslim, one who doesnt pray yet dont lie or cheat others.

Here is the problem with such a simple binary definition, humans are complex creatures, nothing is simple about us. I dont care about a persons religiosity as long as they treat other humans with decency and behaves in a decent manner.
In my experience the most a person talks about a religion the bigger of a cheat that person is. So I tend to be more sceptical of such people because they try to use their outward religious appearance to get away with the usual nonsense.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

In my experience the most a person talks about a religion the bigger of a cheat that person is. So I tend to be more sceptical of such people because they try to use their outward religious appearance to get away with the usual nonsense.

Unfortunately in Pakistan, many people use the appearance of religiosity to cheat people and sell an image of themselves as honest.

This, however, does not mean all outwardly religious people are devoid of spirituality in the inside.

What do you exactly mean by good muslims and bad muslims?

Is your definition of a good muslim is some one who prays 5 times a day, yet keeps on lying, cheating and all kind of $hit. The only reason he prays because its more of a habit.

Bad muslim, one who doesnt pray yet dont lie or cheat others.

Here is the problem with such a simple binary definition, humans are complex creatures, nothing is simple about us. I dont care about a persons religiosity as long as they treat other humans with decency and behaves in a decent manner.

Some of the best Muslims I have ever met do not wear hijab, topi, or wear niqab. Many Pakistanis are like this, and many don’t pray namaz, but have iman in their hearts.

You cannot judge spirituality and closeness to Allah swt as that is the sole domain of Allah swt.

I have even met isolated Muslims from the middle of no where USA with no hijab, no beard, tattoos, and American clothes, never met another Muslim before, but their heart is gold and full of faith to Allah swt.

 

[Samlee]

As you become richer you stop believe in fairy tales because you have more confidence in your control over your life.

BTW the US situation is explained by the lack of free healthcare. The uncertainty that creates is why they cling to religion.

Religion Is Fairy Tale For You??????

 

[TheSeeker]

Totally agree with you on Pakistan, my mother who grew up in 60s told me that in her village in Sialkot there were hardly few people who used to fast in Ramadan, or pray 5 times a day. But now if you go to the same village you would see majority of the people observing Ramadan fasts and many pray regularly 5 times a day. And the people according to her were far more poorer at that time than they are now. So I totally reject the theory that religiosity is linearly controlled by the amount of wealth in a society.

I was just curious whether it has anything to do with Saudi oil boom and Iran Islamic revolution?They started propagating wahhabism after they earned lots of money from oil after 1960/70.
My Pakistani friends can shed more light on this topic.

Let's see
Israel - the wealthiest people in the world
America
Ireland - wealthiest countries

On the opposite end of spectrum, with atheistic countries but poor

Vietnam
North Korea
Albania

On an individual level, it's even varied.

i believe religion has not much to do with wealth.However,I do believe that a poor could be religious out of fear or greed(to get better life),but if a rich is religious then it could be out love and real understanding of God( of God/prophets).

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I was just curious whether it has anything to do with Saudi oil boom and Iran Islamic revolution?They started propagating wahhabism after they earned lots of money from oil after 1960/70.
My Pakistani friends can shed more light on this topic.


i believe religion has not much to do with wealth.However,I do believe that a poor could be religious out of fear or greed(to get better life),but if a rich is religious then it could be out love and real understanding of God( of God/prophets).

Muslims of Pakistan are mostly Sunni Hanafis and follow Sufism.

Closer relationship with Afghanistan, Turkey, Iran, Gulf Arabs, Kashmiris pushed us more to Islamic identity after 1971.

BD was our part which was closer ethnically and racially to India, without it we looked West.

 

[Sugarcane]

The statistics in OP is proof that most of these kind of statistics are pulled from backside, and are propaganda tools. Take them with trailer load of salt.