Peshawar Massacre - TTP kills hundreds of school kids (Avoid graphic pics/vids)

[Varun]

The issue is the way these wars are now fought. I gave the ISIS example precisely as it is the FIRST public demonstration of how proxy wars and terrorism is backed and used on an almost freelance basis by anyone who needs to for an agenda.

What started off as an attempt by the Saudis and Israelis each with their own independent agenda to remove an Iranian backed regime in Syria, to take an example closer to your home.. take the recent Indian elections.. there are normal regular folk without any ideas of Akhand Bharat who supported NaMo in his election because they saw the potential for economic uplift, and then there are those who supported him because they wanted a temple at the site of the Babri mosque.. it is very likely that these two parties would normally not associate themselves with each other, but because the means would fulfil both their demands they joined hands.
The same way the Israelis and the Saudis joined in with the Rebels to achieve a goal they both found beneficial. The Saudis have the most potent strain of the terror virus stored away in their vaults(which ironically they've spent years on ensuring does not effect their own society as much) and they had the funds to push it in. Since the removal of Assad favours most of the GCCs agenda of having Iran out of the mix.. they all pitched in. The US finds out and decides to take over from Israel in providing the funds in this free for all against Iran. On the ground, you have the basic idea of rebels against Assad but as such its just a huge petri dish with each trying their brand of killer virus to see what kills Assad. Lo and Behold, just as with all viruses, it left the dish..and backfired..but the important point to note was the petri dish.. in this case the guinea pig of Syria and eventually Iran. So anyone who had any beef with Iran, found this nice open wound with semi-controllable viruses teeming in it, all willing to do the work for a few thousand dollars. To a state looking to settle scores or press its interests against another state.. this is the proverbial gold mine; a colony of multiple use mercenaries all willing to die for a very modest investment.

Take that same mirror and apply it to Pakistan and the TTP. Here is an opportunity(that India did not create) of anti-state elements in Pakistan(who are always on the lookout for funds and training) that are willing to do some work(via Afghan mediators) for a few thousand dollars. ANY , and I mean ANY smart state facing a neighbour like Pakistan would NEVER leave this opportunity be regardless of any pacifist ideals they may have held(hardly so considering the Indian reprisal attempts in the early 90s). In this case however, there is a massive need to avenge a wound called 26/11.. or is it?
IMHO, the issue may have a little sentiment with 26/11 but has more to do with the aforementioned need to keep Pakistan out as a border threat, out of the Kashmir issue.. and embroiled in its own survival with its own cancer where it just barely lives on.. and essentially ends up being a non-issue to India.

The issue was NEVER who fired the shot first, but who fired the shots thinking of self interest first.. and that was Pakistan. regardless of the rhetoric of Indian and Pakistani leaders, the Pk Establishment knows/knew it, the Indian Establishment/Think Tank knows it.. and its just a matter of who heads that establishment/Think Tank to bring about changes in that cyclic tit for tat "argument" on who fired the first shot and who got hurt more. Each out to act more self righteous than the other and( humorously to any martians observing) getting offended by the other's "self righteous" behaviour.

The only difference is that one Establishment/Think Tank has generally been more astute and aware of how to behave in the world "classroom", and while the other may have been more wily earlier... eventually the teacher has figured it out. Ill leave out who is who.


You believe in the idea that a supreme being exists who controls the universe and all in it.. and yet have issues believing that a man hunted for years lived right under your nose and was killed in an operation and his remains dumped?

What can I say in reply? Your analysis and understanding of the situation is definitely better than mine (and I am not saying this in any satirical way!). Irrespective of who fired the first shots, I just pray that the last shot was fired in Peshawar and these mindless killings stop now.

 

[OTTOMAN]

You believe in the idea that a supreme being exists who controls the universe and all in it.. and yet have issues believing that a man hunted for years lived right under your nose and was killed in an operation and his remains dumped?

You can see what is under my nose... (which i can't see) but you fail to see your own creator? stop guessing and blaming people without a logic... in simple words nonsense.

 

[SQ8]

This picture also paints another grave "statistic" on the losses of PA in the war. As can be seen by the variety of weapons(likely captured) they are holding.

 

[Samlee]

Mullah beghairat
Maulana Abdul Aziz Refused to condemn Peshawar Incident.

Forget Fazallulah First Hang This Bastard

 

[SQ8]

You can see what is under my nose... (which i can't see) but you fail to see your own creator? stop guessing and blaming people without a logic... in simple words nonsense.

Not sure if you mean you are talking nonsense or I am.

 

[Mosamania]

Your own post has very little disagreement from me. Saudi Arabia has ALREADY realized what fire it was playing with. The early 2000 pings of extremist ideals scared the beejesus out of Riyadh to the extent that it went on that massive deradicalization program. Today there is little "extremism" in the population of Saudi Arabia(ourbursts of sectarian hatred against Shias by members of the Saudi populous has to do with its association with Iran than actual sectarian hatred).
However, Ive deliberately said that this refers to the Saudi domestic population and not what Saudia and GCC allies continue to promote. Take the example I gave of the US, whilst massively involved in a fight to keep drugs off its own shores it was actively involved in an alliance with elements in drug production and distribution.. because it found it to be in the best interests of the US.

Internally, Riyadh can condemn and actively act against anyone who gives even an inkling of following Osama, but outside is a very different matter. Especially if the person first promises to act against the Bidah and Shirk of the Shia(representing Iranian ideals).

Considering a law just recently passed that criminalizes anyone who spreads sectarian hatred with up to 5 years and jail with accompanying lashes, saying that Saudi Arabia would support someone going to fight against Bidah and Shirk is quite counter-productive don't you think? Anyways, I do not wish to turn this thread into a mindless blame game, we all condemn the attack equally, and I prefer not to dilute this thread into anything other than what it is currently. The savage and barbaric murder of school children that really angers me beyond anything anyone can imagine.

 

[SQ8]

What can I say in reply? Your analysis and understanding of the situation is definitely better than mine (and I am not saying this in any satirical way!). Irrespective of who fired the first shots, I just pray that the last shot was fired in Peshawar and these mindless killings stop now.

Well, here the shot in Peshawar likely has NOTHING to do with India. Sure, somewhere some input may have bought a water bottle that these guys may have drank 2 months ago.. but not here.

Again, that has to do with how proxy elements operate. An analogy can be taken with 26/11 but that is for another thread.

 

[Strigon]

Forget Fazallulah First Hang This Bastard

It would be the very first failure of Pakistan in this "new" resolve not to kill this guy, publicly insulting the dead forget the convicts being hanged that so far only has been said to soothe public anger and anguish.

 

[SQ8]

One can't base analyses upon headlines; too many media organization lie in the headlines for shock value. When Zionists like me complain, say, to "reputable" organizations like the BBC or AP, their responses are that it's O.K. to lie in the headlines if the truth is buried somewhere in the story.

Nor can one base innocence on them. Here is a state that has mastered the art of survival amidst those out for its blood. Why would it give up any opportunity(when it never does as evident from the on and off air-strikes it carries out) to protect itself with little investment in terms of lives. Either you are implying that Israel is not really a successful state at all or that you are not familiar with statecraft itself.

 

[Spring Onion]

I hope you are wrong (and will be disappointed with RAW if you stand correct about them supporting TTP).

Let's just stop this discussion and pay tribute to our little children.

Thank you we must stop this useless discussion.

Just to clear the air all i am saying India will and is supporting one way othr the other any group/party which serves its interests same is case with Pakistan and any other country. its not TTP centeric

 

[Samlee]

Dear sir, a small addition to your post. all country keep a proxy force, but they use other people, they don't radicalized their own people. unfortunately not true in pakistan case.

No Matter What Mode You Use You Throw Stones At Your Neighbours Do Not Expect Rose Petals In Return.Remember Tamil Tigers You Created Them and Then They Assassinated Your PM.

It Is Too Early To Point Fingers So It Would Be Stupid Of Me To Jump To Conclusions But It Is Known Fact That They Have Massive Support In The Form Of Weapony and MoneyFrom RAW and NDS.Uptil Now It Has Been Revealed That The Perpretators Had Been Receiving Instructions Through Cell Phone From Nuristan and Kunnar

 

[HughSlaman]

More buffoonery.
Continuing with the tone of your argument:
I know that Vajpayee is a political expert and after studying his writing and his interviews, I know that he is not the sort of person who tells explicit lies. He explicitly says he has seen documentary evidence of terrorists being backed by Pakistan. Hence, I accept his testimony.

Now learn something about your own country. Musharraf's trial hasn't failed, he is still on trial. There is a difference between an ongoing trial and a failed trial.

Since you believe that Pakistan's support to Taliban cannot be termed as supporting terrorism, India's support to Bahini was also supporting a freedom struggle. Now go watch pogo.

As for argument about ISI support to TTP, again, this is an extension of same logic that your compatriots apply while claiming that RAW planned Mumbai attacks to gain international sympathy. By the same logic, ISI planned peshawar attacks to gain international sympathy.

And last thing kid. YOU were the one who started saying that TTP is backed by India, so the burden of proof lies on YOU. I don't have to give you any evidence against it to prove my point, my point is already proved till you are able to give evidence that India is behind these attacks. Learn to frame basic arguments first. How old are you anyways?

LOL! So much intellectual dishonesty here, Uncle! In talking to you, I can easily see what Nixon meant when he said that the Indians are "slippery treacherous people".

I have stated that the TTP is covertly backed by Indian intelligence agencies. I have explained why I think this. I am stating this because I want Pakistan to solve the problem of TTP's terrorism, by getting to the root of the problem, and this is one of the roots of the problem.

Some clarification:
I really don't care whether you believe this. I am not required to prove this to you. You are in no position of authority over me. I do not have any "burden of proof"; after all, this is not a law court, nor a debating society.You don't set any rules here.

I am here to address security issues for Pakistan that are raised by TTP after these Indian-backed thugs killed 132 children. We all intend to do whatever is needed to solve the problem, and meeting a burden of proof set by you, or any other Indian Pakistan-hating troll, is just irrelevant. Those who are serious about Pakistan's security (i.e. not you) can easily figure out that the TTP is covertly backed by Indian intelligence agencies

There are other bits of evidence for this, besides Musharraf's convictions. For example, a TV interview with a TTP captive recorded him saying, in passing, that they would get instructions from Indians in Afghanistan. (He didn't say they were RAW or anything, but why would the TTP be getting instructions from Indians in Afghanistan if not for some Indian intelligence agency?) Another bit of evidence: a TTP leader famously became a whistle-blower and explicitly revealed the RAW connection. I could dig up the videos which have these details; but you have access to the internet yourself, so do your own homework.

As for Vajpayee, the tone and attitude you display here, of trying to imitate my style, gives whatever you say about Vajpayee no credibility at all. You are not being serious in this discussion, and you are merely trying to score points, Uncle Troll! (I believe Musharraf, but I do not believe you at all!) So there is no parallel here to what I say about Musharraf.

On Musharraf's trial: there is no point arguing about words. No decision has been reached in Musharraf's trial, and hence no conclusion can be drawn from it. The fact that the trial is happening proves nothing about Musharraf. In fact, we know the trial is purely political, a form of revenge by Nawaz Sharif.

You didn't get what I said about the ISI and the TTP. The TTP famously used to bomb the offices of the ISI themselves. Intelligence agencies do not set up false flag operations by bombing their own staff! Hence, the ISI does not support the TTP. Your attempt to imitate me just fell flat on its face.

I say that the TTP is covertly backed by Indian intelligence agencies because this is the best explanation of the evidence available to me. And it fits very well with information I have about the way Indian intelligence agencies work, as given in the memoirs of people like B. Raman and Maloy Dhar.

The recognition that the TTP is covertly backed by Indian intelligence agencies will be a key element of Pakistan's campaign against the TTP, (along with rooting out the Mullahs and gangsters and politicians inside Pakistan who support the TTP.)

If you actually have some verifiable evidence to challenge this, I will be very interested. But I doubt that will happen with you, Uncle, since all you want to do is troll. And I can't stop you from having your fun, now, can I?

 

[Spring Onion]

This is the kind of thinking that undermines moral character at home and abroad. It's one of the reasons I'm glad I don't live in an E.U. country.

it is not a thinking , it is a RULE and US is on top of list who goes by this rule so it does not matter if you are not in EU

 

[jbond197]

I wanna say something to the losers who had guts to kill little ones -

Khoon ke ye naapak dhabbe kaise khuda se chipaaoge, maasoomon ki kabr pe chadkar kaunsi jannat paaoge..

Die you @ssholes!!

 

[VCheng]

Your assumption is based on the idea that religion belongs where you deem it fit to be. That is based on your understanding of religion and NOT necessarily the right opinion.

So is it your contention that religion should be mixed into the workings of a modern state? That may be your opinion but far more likely to be wrong compared to my clear view that religion must remain confined to the personal domain if a state is to work properly for all its citizens. There is evidence aplenty.