Pervez hoodbhoy interview moroo podcast

[SecularNationalist]

I overall admire pervez hoodbhoy for his contribution to Pakistan in the field of science and technology ,especially his deep intellectual insights. But I strongly disagree on his views on nationalism. According to him nationalism is the curse of modern civilization. Well I expect him to explain why nationalism exists in the first place? The history of nationalism goes as far as the history of first human tribe on this earth. Despite being humans the hard reality is we can't be similar because of the part of the earth where we were born , the different culture, competing for resources , different atmosphere , different race and all the factors that come into play. If in one household siblings who are blood-related can fight with each other , here we are talking so many differences which are beyond our control. The people already fought , died tried to make it work but ended up living separately as tribes to protect their interests collectively or else it wasn't working.
In ancient world they called it tribe, today we call it a nation and as long as nationhood will exist you can't remove nationalism from it. Infact a nation is incomplete without nationalism.
Or else what else Mr hoodbhoy is suggesting the whole world as one nation of humans? The million-dollar question is would that work? Just leave the religious and political ideologies aside the humans on this earth have no compatibility to live as one nation of humans. I am sure we would have to start our journey on this earth all over again doing similar things , things our ancestors did thousands of year's ago.

 

[HAIDER]

I overall admire pervez hoodbhoy for his contribution to Pakistan in the field of science and technology ,especially his deep intellectual insights. But I strongly disagree on his views on nationalism. According to him nationalism is the curse of modern civilization. Well I expect him to explain why nationalism exists in the first place? The history of nationalism goes as far as the history of first human tribe on this earth. Despite being humans the hard reality is we can't be similar because of the part of the earth where we were born , the different culture, competing for resources , different atmosphere , different race and all the factors that come into play. If in one household siblings who are blood-related can fight with each other , here we are talking so many differences which are beyond our control. The people already fought , died tried to make it work but ended up living separately as tribes to protect their interests collectively or else it wasn't working.
In ancient world they called it tribe, today we call it a nation and as long as nationhood will exist you can't remove nationalism from it. Infact a nation is incomplete without nationalism.
Or else what else Mr hoodbhoy is suggesting the whole world as one nation of humans? The million-dollar question is would that work? Just leave the religious and political ideologies aside the humans on this earth have no compatibility to live as one nation of humans. I am sure we would have to start our journey on this earth all over again doing similar things , things our ancestors did thousands of year's ago.

Nationalism is a lion, as long you sit on top you will be one of the bravest men if you fall this lion annihilate you. Nationalism slogan always gives pain at the end. I believe in the One nation policy in the context of Pakistan. Where we have Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Pashtun Nationalists, when all pointing fingers at each other when talking about their rights and co-existance.

 

[villageidiot]

Nationalism is a lion, as long you sit on top you will be one of the bravest men if you fall this lion annihilate you. Nationalism slogan always gives pain at the end. I believe in the One nation policy in the context of Pakistan. Where we have Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Pashtun Nationalists, when all pointing fingers at each other when talking about their rights and co-existance.

I support nationalism in the context of the modern nation state world. What we have instead is what I like to call ethnofascism (PTM types). or the nasli asbiyat the Prophet PBUH warned us about.

Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever supports his people in oppression is like a camel that falls dead into a well and is pulled out by its tail.”

Source: Musnad Aḥmad 4292

Hadith on ‘Asabiyyah: Whoever supports tribalism is like a dead camel

www.abuaminaelias.com

 

[SecularNationalist]

Nationalism is a lion, as long you sit on top you will be one of the bravest men if you fall this lion annihilate you. Nationalism slogan always gives pain at the end. I believe in the One nation policy in the context of Pakistan. Where we have Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Pashtun Nationalists, when all pointing fingers at each other when talking about their rights and co-existance.

Well that's my point our nationalism is about one nation called Pakistan not about the ethnicities that reside inside.
Nationalism is fine ULTRA nationalism isn't. Perfect examples of ultra nationalism are nazi Germany and RSS hindutva ideology in India.

 

[SaadH]

The biggest tragedy of Hoodbhoy is that a trained physicists' only claim to fame is his ill-conceived, shallow, myopic and ouright ignorant diatribes on subjects where his aperture and depth of knowledge is no broader than Maqsood the plumber. Heck even Maqsood the plumber is probably more connected to the zeitgeist and pulse of prevailing cultural undercurrents and the realities of everyday life than this pseudo intellectual. Hoodbhoy has no business passing off his idiotic musings on sociology, theology and history.

 

[Goritoes]

Nationalism is a lion, as long you sit on top you will be one of the bravest men if you fall this lion annihilate you. Nationalism slogan always gives pain at the end. I believe in the One nation policy in the context of Pakistan. Where we have Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, and Pashtun Nationalists, when all pointing fingers at each other when talking about their rights and co-existance.

Your post is literally evidence of why Pakistani nation failed, I hope you realize what is wrong with your post. I'll give you a hint, you missed a huge Population of Pakistan.

 

[HAIDER]

Your post is literally evidence of why Pakistani nation failed, I hope you realize what is wrong with your post. I'll give you a hint, you missed a huge Population of Pakistan.

It is a factor but diverts the topic. Cause overpopulation causes unequal distribution of national wealth and leads to nationalism.

 

[Goritoes]

It is a factor but diverts the topic. Cause overpopulation causes unequal distribution of national wealth and leads to nationalism.

You definitely didn't get my point... carry on

 

[HAIDER]

You definitely didn't get my point... carry on

your objection, please.

 

[Goritoes]

your objection, please.

Nah forget it man, I don't want to hijack someone's thread, Plus I don't even like this Hoodbhoy idiot, yes he is good physicist but he is not smart in other things and specially not in political/religious/social matters.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Your post is literally evidence of why Pakistani nation failed, I hope you realize what is wrong with your post. I'll give you a hint, you missed a huge Population of Pakistan.

I know what you are hinting towards, considering you are an Urdu-speaker, but there isn't a thing called "Muhajir nationalism" or "Punjabi Nationalism" both of those nationalism movements culminated towards Tehreek-e-Pakistan.

Pakistani nation failed because of Sindhi ethnonationalism. Baloch ethnonationalism was just a reaction to state antics.

 

[Olympus81]

Something is really wrong with these boomers.

Hoodbhoy, a physicist talking about politics and social science and Bajwa knee deep into overthrowing governments and rigging elections.

Is there a government institution that does an HR related job? They need to be slapped with warning letters on how they should be focusing on their job roles.

 

[SecularNationalist]

I know what you are hinting towards, considering you are an Urdu-speaker, but there isn't a thing called "Muhajir nationalism" or "Punjabi Nationalism" both of those nationalism movements culminated towards Tehreek-e-Pakistan.

Pakistani nation failed because of Sindhi ethnonationalism. Baloch ethnonationalism was just a reaction to state antics.

I think it's inappropriate to say that we failed. Nationalism lacks here but still Pakistani identity is holding all provinces together.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

I think it's inappropriate to say that we failed. Nationalism lacks here but still Pakistani identity is holding all provinces together.

1. We failed, evident in 1971.

2. No such thing as "Pakistani identity", its just concocted post-colonial masala. Pakistani is only a nationality.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Something is really wrong with these boomers.

Hoodbhoy, a physicist talking about politics and social science and Bajwa knee deep into overthrowing governments and rigging elections.

Is there a government institution that does an HR related job? They need to be slapped with warning letters on how they should be focusing on their job roles.

I think a educated person is in the position to talk about societal issues. We don't need to get a degree to talk about something. We all learn from the books we read, our environment and experiences in life.
Or else most of us shouldn't be on this defence forum. I am sure most of us including you never served in armed forces or fought a war.
With all due respect your logic is flawed.

1. We failed, evident in 1971.

2. No such thing as "Pakistani identity", its just concocted post-colonial masala. Pakistani is only a nationality.

We failed in 1971 because of our a$$hole politicians and generals. Nothing wrong with the Pakistani identity.