Pasha assured of greater Pak role in Afghan talks

[Meengla]

This post and the other one by Pakshah #6 show the mentality of average Pakistanis towards Afghanistan , they have always wanted it to be satellite state to Pakistan . I can understand that Pakistan wants a neutral govt. in Afghanistan but the demand for a Pro- Pak govt . otherwise face Taliban rule shows their true , imperialistic intentions.

Oh, please! You know our dear @Omar1984. We gave him a hard time during the Taseer assassination thread. This forum attracts all kind of people from all sides.

 

[lem34]

The same comment as yours Sir.

You gave diplomatic consideration to Taliban government in Afghanistan (Before 9/11), and then you started fighting against them because USA ordered you to do so. Do you have any valuable comment on that sir?

But we didnt thats why americans are angry with pakistan. And listen our border should be west of kabul. The afghans are our people. Come to pak you will see pattans everywhere assimilated. My wife is a pattan and she was talking to me about visiting her ancestral village. I suggested that it might not be safe. She turned around to me and said but the taleban are our people. The maddrassas are only down the road they wont attck their own villages and people. Oh and I am punjabi.

 

[muse]

I think we would all have greater confidence in the veracity of the suggestion that things are much improved if the article above sounded less like a motivated "official" release and more like a journalistic piece -- for instance, note there is little mention of what the main issues, visas for the bloated CIA presence and of course the trainers, consider:

On the issue of visas for US security and intelligence officials, the two sides agreed on a framework which would allow the Americans to deploy their personnel in Pakistan. But the Americans also agreed to “work with the ISI and not against it”..

So the Pakistanis, it seems have capitulated - in return for a verbal agreement with a US official that US CIA will not work against Pakistan inside, on Pakistani territory, the Pakistanis it seems will allow whatever number of CIA personnel the CIA decides it needs on Pakistani territory -- it's good to be CIA (sucks being Pakistan, a government and army that knows little other than always losing).

Additionally, there some curiosities, see if you find these "interesting" as well:

In the talks, the Americans “assured the Pakistanis that they not only recognised their interests in Afghanistan but also want them to play a larger role”.

The Pakistanis assured them that “they support the US-led process” and would use their influence “to ensure that the process succeeds”.

So the process is no longer "Afghan led, Afghan owned"???????
Or is it that the process being referred to is the US-Talib negotiations, while of course US insists that Pakistan fight the Talib --- and of course, the Pakistanis, "assure" that they support the "US led Process" whereas previously the Pakistani are on record as saying they wanted "Afghan owned Afghan led" process.

So another item the Pakistanis seem to have capitulated on -- after a greater role in Afghanistan, means exactly what???? More fighting in Kunar??

And consider the case of the CIA agent doctor -- now if the doctor was found to be an active cooperating agent of India, what would happen?? But instead the ISI will release this traitor, no charges, no trail - it's good to be CIA

And the biggest US win?? Well, the US will agree not to screw the Pakistanis throw the media - the Pakistanis are very proud (ghairat) and think bending over in public embarrasses them - so much pride, so much honor.


So yes, things are back to where they were, a great success

 

[notsuperstitious]

But we didnt thats why americans are angry with pakistan. And listen our border should be west of kabul. The afghans are our people. Come to pak you will see pattans everywhere assimilated. My wife is a pattan and she was talking to me about visiting her ancestral village. I suggested that it might not be safe. She turned around to me and said but the taleban are our people. The maddrassas are only down the road they wont attck their own villages and people. Oh and I am punjabi.

The kind of excuses Pakistanis make up to disregard the sovereignty of Afghanistan!

With this mindset, Pakistan should be allowed only a nominal role in Afghanistan where their all important childish pride is saved but they can't create more mess than they already have.

 

[OrionHunter]

WASHINGTON: senior US officials have assured Pakistan of a greater role in the Afghan reconciliation process.

Why don't they just hand over Afghanistan to Pakistan? The Pakistani generals would be delighted as they can then have their cake and eat it too! I mean have Afghanistan as well as that strategic depth they so badly want against India!

Cheers!

 

[Awesome]

I think we would all have greater confidence in the veracity of the suggestion that things are much improved if the article above sounded less like a motivated "official" release and more like a journalistic piece -- for instance, note there is little mention of what the main issues, visas for the bloated CIA presence and of course the trainers, consider:



So the Pakistanis, it seems have capitulated - in return for a verbal agreement with a US official that US CIA will not work against Pakistan inside, on Pakistani territory, the Pakistanis it seems will allow whatever number of CIA personnel the CIA decides it needs on Pakistani territory -- it's good to be CIA (sucks being Pakistan, a government and army that knows little other than always losing).

Additionally, there some curiosities, see if you find these "interesting" as well:



So the process is no longer "Afghan led, Afghan owned"???????
Or is it that the process being referred to is the US-Talib negotiations, while of course US insists that Pakistan fight the Talib --- and of course, the Pakistanis, "assure" that they support the "US led Process" whereas previously the Pakistani are on record as saying they wanted "Afghan owned Afghan led" process.

So another item the Pakistanis seem to have capitulated on -- after a greater role in Afghanistan, means exactly what???? More fighting in Kunar??

And consider the case of the CIA agent doctor -- now if the doctor was found to be an active cooperating agent of India, what would happen?? But instead the ISI will release this traitor, no charges, no trail - it's good to be CIA

And the biggest US win?? Well, the US will agree not to screw the Pakistanis throw the media - the Pakistanis are very proud (ghairat) and think bending over in public embarrasses them - so much pride, so much honor.


So yes, things are back to where they were, a great success

Overall they threw them a bone. I think the government is not stupid, but thinks all Pakistanis are stupid. I see them accepting this just to make a song and dance about how they got the Americans to play nice. All I understood from the article was Americans would litter Pakistan with spies, but perhaps not be as good at their job as they were before? I mean what is it that we're being sold here? How daft every leader in Pakistan has to be if he can't get that we want the Americans out of Pakistan preferably with a kick in the butt on their way out.

This ji hazoori culture is unacceptable.

 

[lem34]

The kind of excuses Pakistanis make up to disregard the sovereignty of Afghanistan!

With this mindset, Pakistan should be allowed only a nominal role in Afghanistan where their all important childish pride is saved but they can't create more mess than they already have.

And who are you to dictate what pakistan should be allowed to do. They are our people Just like you claim in kashmir where you have even less right. Anyway keep licking american axxxs they might give you a few crumbs. Afghan patans have a role in pakistan and vice versa what is your problem. We are one people do you not like that its your problem.We will do what we want and what you do is a natter for you,

 

[lem34]

Why don't they just hand over Afghanistan to Pakistan? The Pakistani generals would be delighted as they can then have their cake and eat it too! I mean have Afghanistan as well as that strategic depth they so badly want against India!

Cheers!

Thats a good idea thank you

 

[lem34]

Overall they threw them a bone. I think the government is not stupid, but thinks all Pakistanis are stupid. I see them accepting this just to make a song and dance about how they got the Americans to play nice. All I understood from the article was Americans would litter Pakistan with spies, but perhaps not be as good at their job as they were before? I mean what is it that we're being sold here? How daft every leader in Pakistan has to be if he can't get that we want the Americans out of Pakistan preferably with a kick in the butt on their way out.

This ji hazoori culture is unacceptable.

Yea but tell me why is america so clearly angry with isi and army. Obviously they are not following american diktat. And for zardari and co i dont gibe a shxxx.

 

[notsuperstitious]

And who are you to dictate what pakistan should be allowed to do. They are our people Just like you claim in kashmir where you have even less right. Anyway keep licking american axxxs they might give you a few crumbs. Afghan patans have a role in pakistan and vice versa what is your problem. We are one people do you not like that its your problem.We will do what we want and what you do is a natter for you,

OK, except that Afghan border should be Pakistan Punjab.

How do you like that brotherhood now? Because Afghans and indeed surrounding countries don't like it when you say Pakistan border should be west of Kabul. Your imperialism takes various convenient forms, some times its religion, sometimes language, now ethnicity. It only leads to instability and hence Pakistan's role should be curtailed. This is for everyone's best benefit, even Pakistan's.

 

[muse]

I think the government is not stupid, but thinks all Pakistanis are stupid.

Be fair - this is a army production and they most clearly think that we not just stupid but that we don't know what success means.

See, this is no much bigger than "Ji hazoori" -- for this army to claim that it is the defender of Pakistan, well, that's just not true - pains me to say, but it's just not true.

Yea but tell me why is america so clearly angry with isi and army. Obviously they are not following american diktat. And for zardari and co i dont gibe a shxxx.

Interesting, but not really well thought out. What the US is doing and will continue to do, because Pakistan authorities stupidity will continue to give her enemies ammunition, is to pick advantages by forcing the Pakistani authorities on the back foot (read Osama in Abbotabad -- No Sir, he's not here)

 

[muse]

This is just going in the wrong direction -- maybe we could reconsider and return to the topic

 

[lem34]

This is just going in the wrong direction -- maybe we could reconsider and return to the topic

Agreed but you get my point we are generally one people either side of the border .

 

[muse]

I don't see this so called "success" going anywhere except south - these two countries are not on the same track and won't be for a long long time to come. On the other hand, so long as Pakistan chooses to remain a economic basket case, the people of Pakistan will have to suffer this duffer army, corrupt politicians, incompetent sleuths and a menace that is the US.

 

[lem34]

I don't see this so called "success" going anywhere except south - these two countries are not on the same track and won't be for a long long time to come. On the other hand, so long as Pakistan chooses to remain a economic basket case, the people of Pakistan will have to suffer this duffer army, corrupt politicians, incompetent sleuths and a menace that is the US.

I agree with you as far as corrupt politicians etc. I also agree with you that americs is a menace. I would go a little further and say america is our enemy. But its always refreshing that americans hate and dislike our army and isi. I may be a bit naive but I think if your enemy says something is bad its normally the opposite.

Anyway I stand by pakistan army/isi.